Taylor Hall to AZ, 1st Rnd pick, 3rd Rnd Conditonal Pick, Bahl and 2 Prospects.Dvs Retain 50% salary

[Neb00rs]

13 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

We’ve been drafting goalies for years now, and we have exactly one guy to show for it atm. Elite goalie prospects (ie Knight) are hard to come by. 

Exactly how guaranteed of a thing is Spencer Knight? Did everyone all of a sudden become Spencer Knight psychic experts? Admittedly he is a more well-regarded goalie prospect than we oft seen lately and he's had a strong start to his college career, but he's still a prospect and he's not the only goalie prospect out there. Post-Hall the Devils are going to need a lot more than a goalie. They'll need to replace Hall, they'll still need a no. 1 D, and yes a goalie is part of the equation too, though, Blackwood is still pretty young for a starting netminder. The Devils need assets - draft picks of every position are often duds - the more first rounders you have, the merrier. You might have more of an argument if you were proposing the Devils try and trade for an NHL-ready goalie - at least in that case the goalie could come in and help the current roster - one that, by the way, lost last night with Blackwood playing very well.

[Nicomo]

8 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Exactly how guaranteed of a thing is Spencer Knight? Did everyone all of a sudden become Spencer Knight psychic experts? Admittedly he is a more well-regarded goalie prospect than we oft seen lately and he's had a strong start to his college career, but he's still a prospect and he's not the only goalie prospect out there. Post-Hall the Devils are going to need a lot more than a goalie. They'll need to replace Hall, they'll still need a no. 1 D, and yes a goalie is part of the equation too, though, Blackwood is still pretty young for a starting netminder. The Devils need assets - draft picks of every position are often duds - the more first rounders you have, the merrier. You might have more of an argument if you were proposing the Devils try and trade for an NHL-ready goalie - at least in that case the goalie could come in and help the current roster - one that, by the way, lost last night with Blackwood playing very well.

Why? Knight would fit the timeframe better anyway with Nico, Hughes, Smith , etc. 

[Daniel]

8 minutes ago, MB3 said:

There have only been 6 goalies to be drafted in the first round since 2009. The only two who were drafted earlier than 20 were Vasilevskiy and Jack Campbell.
 

He’s a rare prospect.

Not to mention the fact since about 2014 or so it’s become common wisdom that you don’t draft a goalie before 20 and sometimes not in the first round at all.  It takes a special goalie prospect to break that mold now, and Knight not only was drafted in a high spot by a team that knew it was signing Bobrovsky to a seven year unmovable deal, but he is living up to the hype this far.

Of all the plausible one for one prospect for Hall deals that could be on the table Knight, and maybe a little bit more, is the only one I’d do other than Byram and Caufield.

[Neb00rs]

28 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Why? Knight would fit the timeframe better anyway with Nico, Hughes, Smith , etc. 

Well, I'm not recommending such and it wasn't the operative part of what I was saying but, presumably if you're going to narrow the return you get for Hall, you do it in order to get an asset that is ready to play now, one that can be used to try and salvage the team as it is. In that case maybe you try and re-sign Vatanen. 

You don't get a Taylor Hall to trade every year, putting the entire return into a single goalie prospect when the team is in need of a lot more than that (soon enough Greene, Vatanen, Zajac, Wood etc... could all be gone too) is not a great way to go. If the prospect fails, you're left with nothing. The draft coming up is fairly deep in the first round and the Devils would do well to compile picks. 

[Nicomo]

34 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Well, I'm not recommending such and it wasn't the operative part of what I was saying but, presumably if you're going to narrow the return you get for Hall, you do it in order to get an asset that is ready to play now, one that can be used to try and salvage the team as it is. In that case maybe you try and re-sign Vatanen. 

You don't get a Taylor Hall to trade every year, putting the entire return into a single goalie prospect when the team is in need of a lot more than that (soon enough Greene, Vatanen, Zajac, Wood etc... could all be gone too) is not a great way to go. If the prospect fails, you're left with nothing. The draft coming up is fairly deep in the first round and the Devils would do well to compile picks. 

And if he’s as good as advertised you have your goalie for the next decade +.

The reported return the Avs might be sending back for Hall are unproven players and picks anyway. It’s all a gamble. I’d rather get the guy with the highest amount of potential. 

But its all good. We can just agree to disagree. I don’t think Florida parts with him for half a season of Hall anyway. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Nicomo

[Neb00rs]

3 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

And if he’s ad good as advertised you have your goalie for the next decade +.

The reported return the Avs might be sending back for Hall are unproven players and picks anyway. It’s all a gamble. I’d rather get the guy with the highest amount of potential. 

You're missing the point where the Devils have a bunch of areas of need. That's why you need the assets. Florida probably drafted Knight higher than would normally be smart to do so - but from their vantage point going into the draft, they had a pretty complete lineup and system outside of a goalie prospect, so it's at least a bit more understandable. They probably did the right thing but could have drafted a d-man as well. In any case, they didn't have Bobrovsky yet.

[SterioDesign]

i could be totally wrong but id be worried trading for a goalie... just cause they are soooooo inconsistent. How often does even TOP goalies just fall off a cliff suddenly? We see it every year. Price, Rinne, Schneider, Miller etc etc then some random dude like Jordan Binnington pops out of nowhere and win a cup. Or guys like Dubnyk sucking ass everywhere he played... then he goes to Minny and suddenly he's crazy for awhile. Then how many times teams thought they had a young stud and they'd be set for a decade... then 2 years later that dude is not even around anymore. You just never fvcking know with goalies, its suchhhhh a gamble.

Plus our last trade for a goalie is a good example of that... Schneider was a fvcking stud. I'd love to have horvat or whoever instead of him now though.

That mean said... obviously we need a goalie... but i'd rather sign one or get one through a smaller trade than for our top player.

 

[mfitz804]

11 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i could be totally wrong but id be worried trading for a goalie... just cause they are soooooo inconsistent. How often does even TOP goalies just fall off a cliff suddenly? We see it every year. Price, Rinne, Schneider, Miller etc etc then some random dude like Jordan Binnington pops out of nowhere and win a cup. Or guys like Dubnyk sucking ass everywhere he played... then he goes to Minny and suddenly he's crazy for awhile. Then how many times teams thought they had a young stud and they'd be set for a decade... then 2 years later that dude is not even around anymore. You just never fvcking know with goalies, its suchhhhh a gamble.

Plus our last trade for a goalie is a good example of that... Schneider was a fvcking stud. I'd love to have horvat or whoever instead of him now though.

That mean said... obviously we need a goalie... but i'd rather sign one or get one through a smaller trade than for our top player.

 

I fully believe we should get the best deal available. My gut tells me that’s NOT going to be a goalie. 

[Nicomo]

11 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i could be totally wrong but id be worried trading for a goalie... just cause they are soooooo inconsistent. How often does even TOP goalies just fall off a cliff suddenly? We see it every year. Price, Rinne, Schneider, Miller etc etc then some random dude like Jordan Binnington pops out of nowhere and win a cup. Or guys like Dubnyk sucking ass everywhere he played... then he goes to Minny and suddenly he's crazy for awhile. Then how many times teams thought they had a young stud and they'd be set for a decade... then 2 years later that dude is not even around anymore. You just never fvcking know with goalies, its suchhhhh a gamble.

Plus our last trade for a goalie is a good example of that... Schneider was a fvcking stud. I'd love to have horvat or whoever instead of him now though.

That mean said... obviously we need a goalie... but i'd rather sign one or get one through a smaller trade than for our top player.

 

That’s easier said than done. 

[Nicomo]

1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

I fully believe we should get the best deal available. My gut tells me that’s NOT going to be a goalie. 

I don’t think we’re a getting a deal any of us will be happy with tbh. Byram, Knight...these are pipe dreams. 

[SterioDesign]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

That’s easier said than done. 

oh of course but i'd rather get a safer return for the biggest asset we've ever traded.

and again, obviously it could be the best trade we've ever made too, who knows. But like i said its basically impossible for scouts to really know for prospects when even top NHL goalies can fall off a cliff so fast

[Devils01]

We need Byram. Get it done Shero. come on just do it.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Devils01

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Do Colorado even need Hall? They look pretty set at LW. 

[Steadevils]

9 hours ago, Nicomo said:

That’s easier said than done. 

I'd want any goalie coming back in a Hall trade to be the 2nd or 3rd piece and not the center piece of the trade. I agree with Shero's approach to goalie. Draft one every year and hope to strike gold. Hasn't worked yet, but Schmid/Brady have shown some signs in the USHL and Senns has been the best goalie in the Bing (not saying much, but still he's taken control of the #1 job in his first year in NA).  

[Nicomo]

43 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

I'd want any goalie coming back in a Hall trade to be the 2nd or 3rd piece and not the center piece of the trade. I agree with Shero's approach to goalie. Draft one every year and hope to strike gold. Hasn't worked yet, but Schmid/Brady have shown some signs in the USHL and Senns has been the best goalie in the Bing (not saying much, but still he's taken control of the #1 job in his first year in NA).  

That would be fine if you were talking about some random backup, or a mid round prospect. Which Knight is not. 

Something tells me when we actually see what we’re going to get back for Hall people will be wishing we could have got a one-for-one for Knight...

[EdgeControl]

Now I will be happy getting a low 1st round pick a defensive prospect and a 1st string ahl goalie.. wow how thing have spiraled 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

11 hours ago, Nicomo said:

I don’t think we’re a getting a deal any of us will be happy with tbh. Byram, Knight...these are pipe dreams. 

The only way the above changes is if a team that feels strongly that it can win a Cup suddenly sees one or two key offensive contributors in their forward corps go down with a long-term injury, and becomes desperate to keep their chances alive.  Then Shero will have more leverage.

But we've seen teams suddenly go to Plan B when they feel the asking price for a certain player is too high...it's easy for fans to beat their chests and say "This player or bust, that's it!"  Barring a scenario like the one I just described, no, we probably won't be thrilled with the initial return for Hall.  We'll be a lot less thrilled if Hall is somehow here past the deadline, or even worse, suffers an injury before Shero gets a deal done for him.  I'm all for whatever's going to suck the least...and that's getting some pieces back for Hall. 

[Devilsfan118]

The longer Shero waits, the more the return diminishes (theoretically).

Tick, tock.

[NJDfan1711]

Does anyone think there's a chance he remains here until free agency, or even re-signs here before then? I know all things seem to point to the contrary, but aside from the fact that there's been plenty of rumors and now some circulations of talks being pretty far apart between Shero and other GMs, one thing that has also been apparent is that we really haven't heard much from Shero and/or Hall (or his agent) in terms of whether or not they're negotiating with one another, or whether or not they've officially given up and are not even trying anymore.  

[NJDfan1711]

I guess, to add to my post...why wouldn't a reporter just come right out and ask him "Taylor, there've been a lot of rumors about your contract that's up after this season and whether or not you plan to re-sign here, or if you might be traded before then.  Have you been in talks with your GM Ray Shero about signing a new contract and continuing to play in New Jersey?"  I would.

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Does anyone think there's a chance he remains here until free agency, or even re-signs here before then? I know all things seem to point to the contrary, but aside from the fact that there's been plenty of rumors and now some circulations of talks being pretty far apart between Shero and other GMs, one thing that has also been apparent is that we really haven't heard much from Shero and/or Hall (or his agent) in terms of whether or not they're negotiating with one another, or whether or not they've officially given up and are not even trying anymore.  

Other than an injury, I suppose if Shero is getting really low-balled he can not trade him as a message to other GMs down the road that he will call their bluffs.  That would take some really terrible offers though.

2 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I guess, to add to my post...why wouldn't a reporter just come right out and ask him "Taylor, there've been a lot of rumors about your contract that's up after this season and whether or not you plan to re-sign here, or if you might be traded before then.  Have you been in talks with your GM Ray Shero about signing a new contract and continuing to play in New Jersey?"  I would.

They did more or less after the Ranger game.  He said he hasn't demanded a trade and that his agent is handling contract issues.

[NJDfan1711]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Other than an injury, I suppose if Shero is getting really low-balled he can not trade him as a message to other GMs down the road that he will call their bluffs.  That would take some really terrible offers though.

They did more or less after the Ranger game.  He said he hasn't demanded a trade and that his agent is handling contract issues.

Gotcha.  I suppose that's a standard answer and by 'handling contract issues' that could essentially mean his agent isn't doing anything since he's under contract until this season and will resume negotiations at that point, and therefore he's effectively just waiting patiently to see if he gets traded.....but at the same time, it could be what I mentioned, and perhaps they (Shero and Hall) are just ignoring the rumors and working things out amongst themselves, behind the scenes....slowly.  

[sundstrom]

4 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Gotcha.  I suppose that's a standard answer and by 'handling contract issues' that could essentially mean his agent isn't doing anything since he's under contract until this season and will resume negotiations at that point, and therefore he's effectively just waiting patiently to see if he gets traded.....but at the same time, it could be what I mentioned, and perhaps they (Shero and Hall) are just ignoring the rumors and working things out amongst themselves, behind the scenes....slowly.  

it would make absolutely no sense to sign taylor hall right now in NJ for either side. Even if he wanted to, why wouldn't the Devils and Hall just pull an Aroldis Chapman and say - get as much as you can for me and I'll re-sign in the summer here with some extra parts as this year is a waste. Sure there's risk all around there, but that's certainly something that could be said. The only downside to Hall would be he could only get a 7 year deal and not an 8 year deal.

[NJDfan1711]

1 minute ago, sundstrom said:

it would make absolutely no sense to sign taylor hall right now in NJ for either side. Even if he wanted to, why wouldn't the Devils and Hall just pull an Aroldis Chapman and say - get as much as you can for me and I'll re-sign in the summer here with some extra parts as this year is a waste. Sure there's risk all around there, but that's certainly something that could be said. The only downside to Hall would be he could only get a 7 year deal and not an 8 year deal.

Yeah I understand that - but from Hall's perspective, if he intends on playing here, then there's really no reason not to do it now, if an agreement can be reached that he's happy with.  We know he can get 8 years, and if Ray's willing to go full term, and it's at a price Hall wants, then might as well do it now.  Obviously that's if he wants to stay here - if he doesn't then yeah it makes sense to wait until the off-season and entertain all offers, but if all he's said is that "my agent is handling negotiations", then that doesn't specifically mean he has no interest in playing here.  I know it doesn't really sound promising, but as we all know and have said many times....we really don't know who these guys are and what they're thinking.  

[sundstrom]

6 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Yeah I understand that - but from Hall's perspective, if he intends on playing here, then there's really no reason not to do it now, if an agreement can be reached that he's happy with.  We know he can get 8 years, and if Ray's willing to go full term, and it's at a price Hall wants, then might as well do it now.  Obviously that's if he wants to stay here - if he doesn't then yeah it makes sense to wait until the off-season and entertain all offers, but if all he's said is that "my agent is handling negotiations", then that doesn't specifically mean he has no interest in playing here.  I know it doesn't really sound promising, but as we all know and have said many times....we really don't know who these guys are and what they're thinking.  

if you read between the lines of media posts, ray hasn't offered 8 years (or likely even 6+) and that's a sticking point.