Daniel Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, sundstrom said: if you read between the lines of media posts, ray hasn't offered 8 years (or likely even 6+) and that's a sticking point. Does ownership start to get a sense of how bleak things are going to be by seeing 5,000 in the arena and instruct Ray to give him 8 years? Guess not, but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, sundstrom said: if you read between the lines of media posts, ray hasn't offered 8 years (or likely even 6+) and that's a sticking point. Ah - I hadn't seen or paid attention to that. I guess that's because he must think he's a little too old and doesn't want him til he's 35? Like you mentioned, we don't really have many bargaining points other than that 8th year, so to not use/offer that seems pretty stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) a serious question when has that scenario ever played out in the NHL with a top tier player? It always sounds great on the surface, no doubt about that. Honestly imo at this point I think he can not wait to pack his sh!t and leave town. Edited December 12, 2019 by titans04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, titans04 said: a serious question when has that scenario ever played out in the NHL with a top tier player? It always sounds great on the surface, no doubt about that. Honestly imo at this point I think he can not wait to pack his sh!t and leave town. For the record, I think this is probably the case too - just playing Devil's advocate and pointing out that there's a somewhat reasonable chance that it may not be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, NJDfan1711 said: For the record, I think this is probably the case too - just playing Devil's advocate and pointing out that there's a somewhat reasonable chance that it may not be. same, just wondering if there's a case where this played out and my frustration is blinding my memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, titans04 said: same, just wondering if there's a case where this played out and my frustration is blinding my memory. Yeah, I can't really think of any, recent or not. Going a step further, say we all get a bit surprised and Hall does end up signing here, whether it's tomorrow, or even in the off-season (though that would be unlikely and not make much sense) - what is the reaction? Are people happy and glad he's back? This is assuming a lot, like he's given a term and amount that we're all OK with, but I'm just wondering if people here still would want him around. I for one do. Maybe I'm more of a businessman, but I still see him as a near point per game player on a team where almost nothing has gone right, and outside of one small issue a couple months ago that was quickly diffused, the guy has been a good teammate and player during his time here. He's given me little reason outside of being a bit snakebitten so far this season to not want a player like him on this team, and for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, titans04 said: a serious question when has that scenario ever played out in the NHL with a top tier player? It always sounds great on the surface, no doubt about that. Honestly imo at this point I think he can not wait to pack his sh!t and leave town. Not sure what you mean, but there have been cases where a highly sought after free agent goes to the legal tampering period and signs with his old team, Stamkos being the biggest name. I can't think of a big time free agent who got traded at around the deadline and re-signed with his former team. I dunno, I think Hall and Ferris sense there is some risk that he's not going to get the huge payday he thinks and isn't going to be able to sign in his dream location since there aren't that many teams that have the cap space to sign him. So maybe if Shero gets really low balled in trade discussions, he circles back and tries to sign him to a long term deal and Hall might be more willing to accept it than we think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, Daniel said: I dunno, I think Hall and Ferris sense there is some risk that he's not going to get the huge payday he thinks and isn't going to be able to sign in his dream location since there aren't that many teams that have the cap space to sign him. So maybe if Shero gets really low balled in trade discussions, he circles back and tries to sign him to a long term deal and Hall might be more willing to accept it than we think. Yeah, this is essentially what I was getting at. It may not be likely, and some things have to happen for that to be the case, but it's certainly not impossible. Like you said, there's only a few logical suitors for Hall, so that right there really narrows down the possible destinations for him, and maybe the teams that can realistically bring him in look at his injury last year, and goal scoring this year, and say either "nah, thanks anyway", or "Ok, how's 5 years 50M?" and Taylor says that's not enough - that might be reason enough for him to consider staying here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 37 minutes ago, sundstrom said: if you read between the lines of media posts, ray hasn't offered 8 years (or likely even 6+) and that's a sticking point. I'd actually be interested to hear which "media posts" you're referring to and how you've arrived at such a conclusion. It's possible I missed something but I haven't seen anything that would hint that we know anything about the negotiations. Unless what you mean is that you don't think that the two parties have gotten around to discussing numbers at all - which...maybe...maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 It will be the biggest shock of my life as a hockey fan if Taylor Hall re-signs with the Devils. So many of you posted all along "I still think a deal gets done" when there has never been any indication that would happen. As soon as both sides said "we're going to wait", that's code for "don't hold your breath". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: It will be the biggest shock of my life as a hockey fan if Taylor Hall re-signs with the Devils. So many of you posted all along "I still think a deal gets done" when there has never been any indication that would happen. As soon as both sides said "we're going to wait", that's code for "don't hold your breath". I was one of the ones on record a month or two ago saying that I thought a deal would have been done by now, and since it hasn't it seems less and less likely that it will, but if it actually did it wouldn't nearly be the biggest shock of my life as a hockey fan, for the reasons some of us have been discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Neb00rs said: I'd actually be interested to hear which "media posts" you're referring to and how you've arrived at such a conclusion. It's possible I missed something but I haven't seen anything that would hint that we know anything about the negotiations. Unless what you mean is that you don't think that the two parties have gotten around to discussing numbers at all - which...maybe...maybe. i can't go back and find the links/podcasts but, while it wasn't explicitly stated, it was inferred by the likes of freidman, lebrun and lavoie. edit: this was also back at the end of october/early november before the train went completely off the rails. Edited December 12, 2019 by sundstrom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Neb00rs said: I'd actually be interested to hear which "media posts" you're referring to and how you've arrived at such a conclusion. It's possible I missed something but I haven't seen anything that would hint that we know anything about the negotiations. Unless what you mean is that you don't think that the two parties have gotten around to discussing numbers at all - which...maybe...maybe. I can't find them, but Reanoid Lavoie, who is a real reporter, explicitly said that Shero would not go above 5 or 6 years. Lebrun hinted at it, I think in his article that the Devils were officially fielding offers. I don't have the inclination to look up the exact words he used, but it strongly suggested that Shero was not willing to commit to Hall for the eight year max. EDIT: And don't forget that Ferris is certainly going to get a sense of who the UFA suitors will be and how much they might or might not offer by virtue of the trade discussions where stuff like that will undoubtedly come up even if there isn't official permission to negotiate an extension. Edited December 12, 2019 by Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Daniel said: it strongly suggested that Shero was not willing to commit to Hall for the eight year max. If that's the case, then he's pretty stupid, or just doesn't want/value Hall very much, or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, sundstrom said: i can't go back and find the links/podcasts but, while it wasn't explicitly stated, it was inferred by the likes of freidman, lebrun and lavoie. edit: this was also back at the end of october/early november before the train went completely off the rails. An offer to Hall of less than six years is akin to telling Hall you don't want to sign him - he's a player who will in all likelihood field multiple seven year offers in UFA this offseason. I think the best of the information out there would suggest that Hall doesn't want to sign anything right now - at least not until he finds himself in a situation that's trending in the right direction. That's not reading between the lines really, it's just listening to what he says. As to your point about it not making any sense for the Devils to be dishing out a long-term contract to Hall right now - yeah, that's right of course given that the season is done for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said: If that's the case, then he's pretty stupid, or just doesn't want/value Hall very much, or both. Agreed. There's no way on earth Hall is signing a 5 year deal right now. He needs to lock in as much term as he can at as many dollars as he can, especially given his recent injury history. And, I will add, there will be plenty of teams looking to give him 7 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiquated Colorado Rockie Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, mfitz804 said: It will be the biggest shock of my life as a hockey fan if Taylor Hall re-signs with the Devils. So many of you posted all along "I still think a deal gets done" when there has never been any indication that would happen. As soon as both sides said "we're going to wait", that's code for "don't hold your breath". Yeah, I had some hope over the summer and into the fall but at this point that ship has sailed and by now is half way across the atlantic. At this point I just want a trade done before he can get hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 6 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said: If that's the case, then he's pretty stupid, or just doesn't want/value Hall very much, or both. Stupid in the sense that he went out and got all these players hoping to keep Hall here and he should have known if he wasn't going to give him a max length deal that there was no point in even sitting at the table. At this point I'm not sure it's stupid to not want to sign Hall at all. It looks like the ship has sailed on hoping this team can be on the same timeline as Hall. Prime Taylor Hall should go to a team that has a chance to give him what he wants, and I don't blame him. This sh!t is such a mess. It's a mess he can take some responsibility for, but it isn't like it should be him that has to fix it. That's on Ray, the new staff he hires, and the young cornerstone players. I'd hate to be a professional athlete and have barely sniffed the playoffs almost a decade into my career too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said: The longer Shero waits, the more the return diminishes (theoretically). Tick, tock. No it doesn't. The only way the return decreases is injury which I know you and others are paranoid about but GM's and players don't think like that. There's a reason Colorado's pushing to get him now, cause they know they're one of the few teams that can offer to take back the rest of the contract clean cap-wise in December while other teams have to wait till February to bank cap space. You'll have more teams in on the bidding in February, that's what gets the bargaining wars going. That said it might be best served to trade him now cause this situation seems to be getting toxic. Edited December 13, 2019 by NJDevs4978 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said: Stupid in the sense that he went out and got all these players hoping to keep Hall here and he should have known if he wasn't going to give him a max length deal that there was no point in even sitting at the table. At this point I'm not sure it's stupid to not want to sign Hall at all. It looks like the ship has sailed on hoping this team can be on the same timeline as Hall. Prime Taylor Hall should go to a team that has a chance to give him what he wants, and I don't blame him. This sh!t is such a mess. It's a mess he can take some responsibility for, but it isn't like it should be him that has to fix it. That's on Ray, the new staff he hires, and the young cornerstone players. I'd hate to be a professional athlete and have barely sniffed the playoffs almost a decade into my career too. I agree with this post for the most part, but I do think there was some pressure on Shero to try to compete this year though, they've had more than enough tank/dissapointing years. Another dissapointing year this year completely obliterates any goodwill the playoff appearance bought the new regime, now it's five years of losing with no end in sight under Shero, eight years overall. Edited December 13, 2019 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said: I agree with this post for the most part, but I do think there was some pressure on Shero to try to compete this year though, they've had more than enough tank/dissapointing years. Another dissapointing year this year completely obliterates any goodwill the playoff appearance bought the new regime, now it's five years of losing with no end in sight under Shero, eight years overall. How many people here are really not going to care all that much about the lottery and be sort of meh even if we get one of the top two picks? My guess is a lot of people feel this way even if they don’t admit it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils744 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 27 minutes ago, Daniel said: How many people here are really not going to care all that much about the lottery and be sort of meh even if we get one of the top two picks? My guess is a lot of people feel this way even if they don’t admit it right now. I'll admit to that now. I don't care about draft picks this year etc at this point. I just want to see a competitive team on the ice each night. At the rate it's going it looks like waiting for another few seasons. I'll also admit now that my season ticket holder days are finished. I can't do this anymore with this type of product. I'm basically paying money to be tortured again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 50 minutes ago, Daniel said: How many people here are really not going to care all that much about the lottery and be sort of meh even if we get one of the top two picks? My guess is a lot of people feel this way even if they don’t admit it right now. I care about the pick, because I know the other thing isn’t happening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I’d almost rather finish 4-5 and get a top D pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) So if Hall is going to be traded to the Avs, it has to happen before puck drop, right? I kid I kid.... but seriously, any leaks out there on anything? Haha Edited December 13, 2019 by jagknife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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