Taylor Hall to AZ, 1st Rnd pick, 3rd Rnd Conditonal Pick, Bahl and 2 Prospects.Dvs Retain 50% salary

[WaffleFries]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

Why do people keep talking about the 1st being conditional? Isn’t that a second 1st that’s conditional? I thought we get at least one 1st from this no matter what...

There is a definite first and a conditional third. That third becomes a second if the Yotes win a playoff round. It becomes another first if the Yotes win a round AND Hall resigns with them.

[CommonDreads]

2 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

We need some opinions from people like @CommonDreads and @Jas0nMacIsaac on the guys coming back. 

Bahl is obviously the most intriguing of the three prospects coming back. 6'6", 230 lb left shot defenseman that's going to be playing with Ty Smith on Team Canada at the World Juniors in a couple weeks, and this year I think he's taken a significant step in his two-way game. Primarily, he's still a physical shutdown defenseman and I think he likely projects as a #4 defenseman who can play on our top PK unit at his ceiling, but he also has some decent mobility and hands for a player his size. Tonight, I was already planning on watching a 67's game in preparation for an article on Marco Rossi I'm working on, and Bahl made this excellent play for a goal in the game I was watching. It's a good illustration of some of the upside he can have beyond just being your prototypical hulking defenseman, which is encouraging. Not a high-end guy, but enough there to feel good about.

Nate Schnarr is an interesting pick up. 6'3" center who was a top player for the Storm last year (34G, 102PTS in 65GP) but has taken some time to adjust in the AHL, which should be expected for a 20 year old coming out of junior. I'm not sure he's more than a 3rd line center at his ceiling, but there's enough there to think he could maybe have a place on a PP2 in the future if he pans out right.

Merkley is someone I liked quite a bit in 2015 (was actually who I wanted the Devils to grab in 2015 in the 2nd round before the Yotes grabbed him at the end of Round 1), but he's taken some time now to find his footing at the AHL and has regressed a little since his rookie AHL season. I think there's still something there to the point where we should give him a chance to stick in our middle six for the rest of the season. Once upon a time, he projected nicely as a potential top six forward, so hopefully a change of scenery and a bigger opportunity with the Devils helps him realize some of that upside.

EDIT: More than anything, we shouldn't be looking at Kevin Bahl as the centerpiece of this trade - he's not. The centerpiece was getting that 2020 1st Round pick; I've been beating the drum that this is the best draft since either 2015 or 2003, and if this pick ends up in the middle of the 1st round or earlier, we're going to walk away with two foundational pieces to build around. A lot of people were clamoring for Soderstrom from the Coyotes, but I feel fairly confident in saying that whoever we get with this 1st Round pick is going to be better than Soderstrom. If for arguments sake we end up with Lucas Raymond and Jeremie Poirier with our two 1st Rounders this year, I think people are going to look at our long term outlook with much, much more optimism than what is being thrown around right now, those would be two massive additions for our club.

Edited December 17, 2019 by CommonDreads

[SterioDesign]

So i think the best scenario would be for Arizona to get the lowest wild card spot... and lose in the 2nd round... or dont make the playoffs at all. There's no way Hall re-sign there anyway

[MadDog2020]

Bahl better not suck. 

[nessus]

17 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Why do people keep talking about the 1st being conditional? Isn’t that a second 1st that’s conditional? I thought we get at least one 1st from this no matter what...

The Devils are definitely getting a first; it's just lottery protected this year. If for some reason it's a top 3 pick, we get the AZ 2021 first instead. That's the "condition".

Edited December 17, 2019 by nessus

[EdgeControl]

I'm fine with this deal, right now it's 50 50 if hall will be worth 10 mil over 8.. we got his best year and flipped him..now Shero has one more shot with 2 firsts to gets some size or scoring to go with the kids.. this new guy has size as well.. thanks taylor,  or thanks larsson 

[Nicomo]

22 minutes ago, nessus said:

The Devils are definitely getting a first; it's just lottery protected this year. If for some reason it's a top 3 pick, we get the AZ 2021 first instead. That's the "condition".

Right. And that’s not happening barring a total meltdown in Arizona. They’re a 1st place team right now. And adding Hall should make them even better. 

[NLinfante]

NJ does not have a second (Subban trade) or a third (Gusev trade) this year, so having the two first round picks is pretty solid work by Ray, even if the rest of the return is spotty at this point.

If Hall resigns or if the Yotes win a round, the extra third in 2021 goes up.

[Guadana]

2 minutes ago, NLinfante said:

NJ does not have a second (Subban trade) or a third (Gusev trade) this year, so having the two first round picks is pretty solid work by Ray, even if the rest of the return is spotty at this point.

If Hall resigns or if the Yotes win a round, the extra third in 2021 goes up.

There will be trades from Shero. Simmonds, maybe Vats, or even Green.

[newarkcupparade]

4 minutes ago, NLinfante said:

NJ does not have a second (Subban trade) or a third (Gusev trade) this year, so having the two first round picks is pretty solid work by Ray, even if the rest of the return is spotty at this point.

If Hall resigns or if the Yotes win a round, the extra third in 2021 goes up.

We still have Vats, Green etc. to trade  for more picks. 

[Triumph]

6 minutes ago, NLinfante said:

NJ does not have a second (Subban trade) or a third (Gusev trade) this year, so having the two first round picks is pretty solid work by Ray, even if the rest of the return is spotty at this point.

If Hall resigns or if the Yotes win a round, the extra third in 2021 goes up.

EDIT - people already made the dumb point I did.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Triumph

[Jerzey]

Not that I wish Hall to have a bad career going forward but I do kind of hope he doesn’t help the Yotes at all and they fall out of playoff contention but don’t win the draft lottery. 

If they go past the second round we get another 1st but they’ll both probably end at the end of the first round so I’d rather have a better 1st this year than 2 late round 1sts.

[NLinfante]

7 minutes ago, Guadana said:

There will be trades from Shero. Simmonds, maybe Vats, or even Green.

 

3 minutes ago, newarkcupparade said:

We still have Vats, Green etc. to trade  for more picks. 

 

3 minutes ago, Triumph said:

EDIT - people already made the dumb point I did.

 That's all well and good, but the trades haven't been made yet.  I hope you're all right and they are moved before the deadline. If people are predicting this to be a "deep draft" having two firsts seems alright on an otherwise not so fun day. Personally, I'd be a little surprised if any other current Devils fetch as high as even a late first.

[aylbert]

11 minutes ago, NLinfante said:

 

 

 That's all well and good, but the trades haven't been made yet.  I hope you're all right and they are moved before the deadline. If people are predicting this to be a "deep draft" having two firsts seems alright on an otherwise not so fun day. Personally, I'd be a little surprised if any other current Devils fetch as high as even a late first.

That’s an insufferable rebuttal.    We have two firsts in a deep draft...  so you complain we don’t have 2nd or 3rds.    People point out we can get them by trading away others.    You reply you doubt anyone will get us even a low first...     Ugh.

Palms may, as he has an extra year on his contract... I’d rather keep him.    But we can flip Simmonds and Vats for a 2nd or 3rd.

 

[EdgeControl]

1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

Bahl is obviously the most intriguing of the three prospects coming back. 6'6", 230 lb left shot defenseman that's going to be playing with Ty Smith on Team Canada at the World Juniors in a couple weeks, and this year I think he's taken a significant step in his two-way game. Primarily, he's still a physical shutdown defenseman and I think he likely projects as a #4 defenseman who can play on our top PK unit at his ceiling, but he also has some decent mobility and hands for a player his size. Tonight, I was already planning on watching a 67's game in preparation for an article on Marco Rossi I'm working on, and Bahl made this excellent play for a goal in the game I was watching. It's a good illustration of some of the upside he can have beyond just being your prototypical hulking defenseman, which is encouraging. Not a high-end guy, but enough there to feel good about.

Nate Schnarr is an interesting pick up. 6'3" center who was a top player for the Storm last year (34G, 102PTS in 65GP) but has taken some time to adjust in the AHL, which should be expected for a 20 year old coming out of junior. I'm not sure he's more than a 3rd line center at his ceiling, but there's enough there to think he could maybe have a place on a PP2 in the future if he pans out right.

Merkley is someone I liked quite a bit in 2015 (was actually who I wanted the Devils to grab in 2015 in the 2nd round before the Yotes grabbed him at the end of Round 1), but he's taken some time now to find his footing at the AHL and has regressed a little since his rookie AHL season. I think there's still something there to the point where we should give him a chance to stick in our middle six for the rest of the season. Once upon a time, he projected nicely as a potential top six forward, so hopefully a change of scenery and a bigger opportunity with the Devils helps him realize some of that upside.

EDIT: More than anything, we shouldn't be looking at Kevin Bahl as the centerpiece of this trade - he's not. The centerpiece was getting that 2020 1st Round pick; I've been beating the drum that this is the best draft since either 2015 or 2003, and if this pick ends up in the middle of the 1st round or earlier, we're going to walk away with two foundational pieces to build around. A lot of people were clamoring for Soderstrom from the Coyotes, but I feel fairly confident in saying that whoever we get with this 1st Round pick is going to be better than Soderstrom. If for arguments sake we end up with Lucas Raymond and Jeremie Poirier with our two 1st Rounders this year, I think people are going to look at our long term outlook with much, much more optimism than what is being thrown around right now, those would be two massive additions for our club.

Great overview dreads, you've got me enthusiastic... but you missed the most important point.. fan will have little trouble converting  the hall Jersey to a bahl Jersey 

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, aylbert said:

That’s an insufferable rebuttal.    We have two firsts in a deep draft...  so you complain we don’t have 2nd or 3rds.    People point out we can get them by trading away others.    You reply you doubt anyone will get us even a low first...     Ugh.

Palms may, as he has an extra year on his contract... I’d rather keep him.    But we can flip Simmonds and Vats for a 2nd or 3rd.

 

However deep the draft is, no picks that we’re trading for will be in a position to help us for at least two years, if history is any guide anyway.  And for every Pastrnak, there are 10 Josefsons.  There’s a better chance of Bahl exceeding expectations and becoming a foundational piece of our defense than a pick in the 20-31 range being part of the long term answer to our problems.

[mfitz804]

2 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

What if Ray now signs Hall in the summer...............

Not happening. 

[NLinfante]

25 minutes ago, aylbert said:

That’s an insufferable rebuttal.    We have two firsts in a deep draft...  so you complain we don’t have 2nd or 3rds.    People point out we can get them by trading away others.    You reply you doubt anyone will get us even a low first...     Ugh.

Palms may, as he has an extra year on his contract... I’d rather keep him.    But we can flip Simmonds and Vats for a 2nd or 3rd.

 

You misunderstood. I wasn't complaining at all about the lack of a 2nd or a 3rd; simply pointing out that I find the return of a first in the Hall trade as an upside. Trading any of the other players will probably not fetch the same, so I'm looking on the bright side.

 

Relax.

[mfitz804]

Since we’re bashing Taylor now, I told my 12 year old that he was going to be traded and that his girlfriend had a going away party.

She was surprised he had a girlfriend because of his funny teeth. 

Brutal. 

[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

 Pretty standard type return for a high end rental. The conditional pick was expected, I would have liked to see him dealt to a team that has a better chance of extending him.

[NJDevils1214]

People mention Simmer as trade bait...how much value can he have? His contract makes it super hard to move him to a contender.

[aylbert]

1 minute ago, NJDevils1214 said:

People mention Simmer as trade bait...how much value can he have? His contract makes it super hard to move him to a contender.

It’s a 1 year deal and we can eat salary.    He adds grit and PP.

[Daniel]

Just now, NJDevils1214 said:

People mention Simmer as trade bait...how much value can he have? His contract makes it super hard to move him to a contender.

By the trade deadline salary isn't really an issue.  Maybe we get a second rounder if we're lucky.  Couldn't hurt, but it's not really what the team needs.

[titans04]

2 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

Before people start ripping into the guy, this is the classic line every player gives when they're traded and it usually is in reference to a team wanting to trade for them and being willing to give up assets for them and is not a shot at the player's former team.

Here's some context:

 

Yep and then he still did this.  Good riddance, thanks for the MVP season but he's been "gone" from here since this bs move. May need to grow some thicker skin and the years roll on.

[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

All Coyotes fans should be ecstatic for how little they gave up here.  And no one here can possibly be excited with what we got. 

Don't blame Ray for getting something like this at this point, but it's absolutely his fault that we're at this point to begin with.  If anyone told you this was how it was going to turn out the day we got him, they'd probably have been banned for being trolling Ranger fans. 

But what's done is done.  I just wish one of our useless beat writers can get him to give some sense of what his plan for the team is now.  It's literally the only question he should be asked, and he should be asked it repeatedly until he actually answers it.

 

It's a pretty standard high end rental deal. Yeah, disappointing that it had to be made.

We already know the plan: tank; trade off more UFAs for picks/prospects, in the offseason use the capital to draft and trade for NHL players and hope he can hire a competent coach.