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Taylor Hall to AZ, 1st Rnd pick, 3rd Rnd Conditonal Pick, Bahl and 2 Prospects.Dvs Retain 50% salary

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7 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

he ditched colorado because he didn't feel he could make the team and thrive as he did his rookie year with NJ

Colorado was coming off a year being worse than us, so I don't think that was it.  I believe the issue he had with Sakic or Sakic had with him was the reason. 

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Dumb question - can you retain on an extension?  

I'm guessing no.

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6 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Dumb question - can you retain on an extension?  

I'm guessing no.

if you're suggesting a sign and trade, yes you can.

but the cost on the return would be so large that nobody would do it.

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17 minutes ago, NewarkDevil5 said:

Regardless of Byram's bonafides as a prospect, until he plays an NHL game he's still just that, a prospect. Blue chip, yes, but even blue chip prospects can crash and burn at the NHL level. I'm okay with retaining some of Hall's salary but at worst the trade should be one for one with conditionally more if Hall re-signs. Hall is an established star with an MVP pedigree. Byram has never played an NHL game.

Would throwing in a Miles Wood or Pavel Zacha really be a dealbreaker though? I’d be perfectly fine giving up like half the guys on this roster. 

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2 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Would throwing in a Miles Wood or Pavel Zacha really be a dealbreaker though? I’d be perfectly fine giving up like half the guys on this roster. 

For a guy who has never played an NHL game before? Yeah that's a bridge too far for me. NHL experience, even on bad teams, has a value. We had Adam Larsson and at the point before he'd played an NHL game many of us would have valued him in much the same way as Byram is valued, but all of us look back on trading him for Hall as a steal. He didn't develop into quite what we thought he would and that might have been partially due to coaching as well as some other holes in his talent arsenal that weren't focused upon at draft time but right now this team has not shown that it can coach to develop defensemen. 

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20 minutes ago, NewarkDevil5 said:

Regardless of Byram's bonafides as a prospect, until he plays an NHL game he's still just that, a prospect. Blue chip, yes, but even blue chip prospects can crash and burn at the NHL level. I'm okay with retaining some of Hall's salary but at worst the trade should be one for one with conditionally more if Hall re-signs. Hall is an established star with an MVP pedigree. Byram has never played an NHL game.

Yeah, I understand teams always want to get younger, and that the theory is you bring in a guy before he's entering his prime so that you get him as he's maturing while he's cheap, and then through his prime years when he's at his peak, but as you said, Hall's a proven vet, and although his ceiling may have been reached, you still know more or less what you're getting out of him.  

I know you have to give to get, and that we're sort of stuck in the sense that we basically have to move this asset before it gets auctioned for free, but I'd be cautious about giving it up for essentially an unknown.  Too many variables and things that can happen for that deal to potentially be lopsided in their favor.

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Just now, NewarkDevil5 said:

For a guy who has never played an NHL game before? Yeah that's a bridge too far for me. NHL experience, even on bad teams, has a value. We had Adam Larsson and at the point before he'd played an NHL game many of us would have valued him in much the same way as Byram is valued, but all of us look back on trading him for Hall as a steal. He didn't develop into quite what we thought he would and that might have been partially due to coaching as well as some other holes in his talent arsenal that weren't focused upon at draft time but right now this team has not shown that it can coach to develop defensemen. 

I would roll the dice that Byram turns out to be a better player than Wood, Zacha, etc. 

Now would I want to throw in one of our young guys that I’m actually still hopeful hasn’t reached their full potential like one of the Jesper’s? Not really. Throwing in a Palms or Coleman would be getting a bit rich too. But Wood, Zacha, Severson...I think we’ve seen enough of those guys at this point to know what they are. And to me it’s would be worth it for a chance at a potential top 4 (maybe even top 2 someday) dman.  

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50 minutes ago, NewarkDevil5 said:

For a guy who has never played an NHL game before? Yeah that's a bridge too far for me. NHL experience, even on bad teams, has a value. We had Adam Larsson and at the point before he'd played an NHL game many of us would have valued him in much the same way as Byram is valued, but all of us look back on trading him for Hall as a steal. He didn't develop into quite what we thought he would and that might have been partially due to coaching as well as some other holes in his talent arsenal that weren't focused upon at draft time but right now this team has not shown that it can coach to develop defensemen. 

There are lottery ticket prospects, and then there's a guy that every scout says "holy sh!t -- he is going to be the backbone of an NHL defense in three years."

There are exceptions. But you're not turning half a season of Taylor Hall into an established top-2 defenseman, you just aren't. So you take the slight risk that comes with the reward of possibly having Byram and Smith anchoring your blueline in a few seasons. 

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Byram is 100% worth taking the risk.  If he got him, he would easily be the cornerstone of our defense within 2 seasons.

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27 minutes ago, MB3 said:

There are lottery ticket prospects, and then there's a guy that every scout says "holy sh!t -- he is going to be the backbone of an NHL defense in three years."

I feel like I remember those kinds of predictions for Adam Larsson as well.  I'm not saying we'll get an established star defenseman for half a year of Hall, but I am saying that half a year of Hall plus the edge of a easier re-signing that being able to offer an extra year provides is worth at least a blue chip prospect who has never played an NHL game if not that plus filler.

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1 minute ago, NewarkDevil5 said:

I feel like I remember those kinds of predictions for Adam Larsson as well.  I'm not saying we'll get an established star defenseman for half a year of Hall, but I am saying that half a year of Hall plus the edge of a easier re-signing that being able to offer an extra year provides is worth at least a blue chip prospect who has never played an NHL game if not that plus filler.

We got 4 years of a 24 year old Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.  If you think you're getting more than that for 1/2 of a year for a 28 year old Taylor Hall, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. 

I would be SHOCKED if a Taylor Hall rental returned Bowen Byram. 

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1 minute ago, MB3 said:

We got 4 years of a 24 year old Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.  If you think you're getting more than that for 1/2 of a year for a 28 year old Taylor Hall, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. 

I would be SHOCKED if a Taylor Hall rental returned Bowen Byram. 

 We got 4 years of Taylor Hall for an Adam Larsson who had played 5 full seasons in the NHL. Once again there's a difference between a prospect and a player. 

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1 hour ago, NewarkDevil5 said:

I feel like I remember those kinds of predictions for Adam Larsson as well.  I'm not saying we'll get an established star defenseman for half a year of Hall, but I am saying that half a year of Hall plus the edge of a easier re-signing that being able to offer an extra year provides is worth at least a blue chip prospect who has never played an NHL game if not that plus filler.

If we didnt win the lottery, Byram was player I wanted badly. 

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2 hours ago, MB3 said:

We got 4 years of a 24 year old Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.  If you think you're getting more than that for 1/2 of a year for a 28 year old Taylor Hall, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. 

I would be SHOCKED if a Taylor Hall rental returned Bowen Byram. 

Taylor Hall rental isn't going to return Bowen Byram, but Taylor Hall 8 years might.  Let's not forget that Hall doesn't have any playoff experience outside of one series with us two years ago, so he doesn't have a lot of miles on him.  He may be 28, but he's a relatively young 28.  He could fairly easily have 8 solid years left in him, especially if he's in an environment where he's surrounded by more talent, and isn't relied on to be the face of the team.

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6 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Taylor Hall rental isn't going to return Bowen Byram, but Taylor Hall 8 years might.  Let's not forget that Hall doesn't have any playoff experience outside of one series with us two years ago, so he doesn't have a lot of miles on him.  He may be 28, but he's a relatively young 28.  He could fairly easily have 8 solid years left in him, especially if he's in an environment where he's surrounded by more talent, and isn't relied on to be the face of the team.

What makes you say he’s a “relatively young 28” after he missed nearly a full season with an injury?
 

If anything he’s trending the other way. 

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The Devils need to move on from Hall NOW.

They could just as easily be in the running for the first overall pick (AGAIN) with or without him.

Might as well get something for him now and if it's the top prospect from Colorado, so be it.

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5 hours ago, MB3 said:

We got 4 years of a 24 year old Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.  If you think you're getting more than that for 1/2 of a year for a 28 year old Taylor Hall, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. 

I would be SHOCKED if a Taylor Hall rental returned Bowen Byram. 

I think it really depends on how close Sakic thinks they are. That franchise is stacked on the blue line. If Sakic thinks they are one Taylor Hall away from a Cup, he may just do it. 

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10 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I think it really depends on how close Sakic thinks they are. That franchise is stacked on the blue line. If Sakic thinks they are one Taylor Hall away from a Cup, he may just do it. 

I have never once read anything from any of the legit writers that have been reporting on this that Byram is untouchable.  

And if hockey trades were based on transitive logic (we got Hall four years ago for Adam Larsson, so we will necessarily get less than Adam Larsson now that Hall's a UFA at the end of the season) he wouldn't have been traded to us in the first place.  

 

Edited by Daniel
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5 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

What makes you say he’s a “relatively young 28” after he missed nearly a full season with an injury?
 

If anything he’s trending the other way. 

Well, I said he's relatively young for the reason I mentioned - some guys have played a ton of playoff games on top of their regular season games, but that isn't the case for Hall.  He's had basically none. 

I didn't really think of his missed season last year, that's true, and I could see why you could look at it that way, but if anything you could also say that that missed season is another reason and example of how he doesn't have a lot of 'miles' on him.  Sure the injury isn't a good thing, but it's a year he had off healing one part of his body rather than putting his entire body (and mind) through a grueling 82 game season (and possibly playoffs).  

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Something to consider as we all weigh the “we need guys with NHL experience” argument when thinking about trading a current roster player:

Lets assume that We’re trading Hall and not getting an NHL-right-now guy back in the deal. I think we can stipulate that we’re throwing away this season and letting Nas show management what he’s got. At that point, who cares if we have one line of NHL regulars and 9 guys getting their shot? Sure, we’ll get stomped most nights but would that be much different than what’s happening now with 9-12 guys who belong in the NHL and a handful of “Jesus Christ just get off the team already” players?

30-40 games of “wow these guys might be good, someday” would be a lot more fun for me anyway, than 30-40 of “holy sh!t you shouldn’t suck this badly, what the fvck!”

so yeah... that’s my take

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2 hours ago, jagknife said:

Lets assume that We’re trading Hall and not getting an NHL-right-now guy back in the deal. I think we can stipulate that we’re throwing away this season and letting Nas show management what he’s got. At that point, who cares if we have one line of NHL regulars and 9 guys getting their shot? Sure, we’ll get stomped most nights but would that be much different than what’s happening now with 9-12 guys who belong in the NHL and a handful of “Jesus Christ just get off the team already” players?

so yeah... that’s my take

That was the 2018-19 Devils, no?

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49 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

That was the 2018-19 Devils, no?

I... I mean... you’re not wrong...

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Pucks and pitchforks blogger, was retweeted by someone I follow:, so take it with a grain of salt, or even the entire salt shaker, obviously 


 

Edited by jagknife

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If it is for Byram what’s the rules for calling him up? Does he have to stay in the WHL all season now? 

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