Neb00rs Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Half-agree with Daniel here. Both Bahl and the first are important parts of the trade. Bahl is almost certainly going to get an NHL shot and that's more than you can say for now about the pick that the Coyotes' selection will yield us. He's got a fair enough shot to become a good-skating physical presence on our PK. The "this is a deep draft" line gets thrown out pretty wildly year-to-year, but it doesn't seem like the Devils are much more likely to get a hit at 20 this year than any other year. If the Coyotes bomb and it's a top 10 pick then the depth of the draft will matter more. Whether you think Ray has made the right moves along the way or not, he did get us here and obviously his ability to make successful selections in the first round of the upcoming draft and pick who the next head coach is will hold much importance in terms of his future with the team a few years from now. The one thing is that it's still not totally out of the question for the Devils to try and build a competitive team in the near future. Ray may get another late first round pick for Vatanen (could be a second too). He can make the choice to use his abundance of firsts to trade for a roster player come draft time if he so chooses. He has the next few months to decide what this team is and what direction to go in. When people lament, "prospects usually never turn into anything" they're really just saying, "It's hard to draft well." And that's obvious as well. Yeah, you have to draft well to build a winning franchise. Go figure. But you at least need the assets in order to be able to try. For now Bahl is a nice addition to the system - it's not out of the question that he plays some games for the Devils next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiquated Colorado Rockie Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Guadana said: Duchene was 3rd pick and Colorado is a strong playoff team after they trade him after 9 years. Colorado had Mackinnon(1st) and Landeskog(2nd) and they spend 5 years for what they have now. With lucky Rantanen pick. It`s NHL. We must shot our expectation down and look at thing realistically. Thinking about Colorado does give me some optimism. They certainly were not an overnight success and accumulated some top 5 draft choices and it was only a few seasons ago that they were the laughing stalk of the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: People mention Simmer as trade bait...how much value can he have? His contract makes it super hard to move him to a contender. Maybe now, not at the trade deadline. Pro-rated salary for 20 games isn’t so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said: It's a pretty standard high end rental deal. Yeah, disappointing that it had to be made. I read that the guys included are the third, fifth and ninth ranked prospects in the team’s system. Add draft picks to that. That seems about right for a little more than half a season of Taylor Hall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: People mention Simmer as trade bait...how much value can he have? His contract makes it super hard to move him to a contender. He could maybe bring back a middle of the road guy for Binghamton at the deadline and we would probably need to retain salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs3cups Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Bahl intrigues me. I'll be keeping a close eye on him during the WJC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, Devs3cups said: Bahl intrigues me. I'll be keeping a close eye on him during the WJC If there’s anything we needed, it was more Bahls. 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, Neb00rs said: Half-agree with Daniel here. Both Bahl and the first are important parts of the trade. Bahl is almost certainly going to get an NHL shot and that's more than you can say for now about the pick that the Coyotes' selection will yield us. He's got a fair enough shot to become a good-skating physical presence on our PK. The "this is a deep draft" line gets thrown out pretty wildly year-to-year, but it doesn't seem like the Devils are much more likely to get a hit at 20 this year than any other year. If the Coyotes bomb and it's a top 10 pick then the depth of the draft will matter more. Whether you think Ray has made the right moves along the way or not, he did get us here and obviously his ability to make successful selections in the first round of the upcoming draft and pick who the next head coach is will hold much importance in terms of his future with the team a few years from now. The one thing is that it's still not totally out of the question for the Devils to try and build a competitive team in the near future. Ray may get another late first round pick for Vatanen (could be a second too). He can make the choice to use his abundance of firsts to trade for a roster player come draft time if he so chooses. He has the next few months to decide what this team is and what direction to go in. When people lament, "prospects usually never turn into anything" they're really just saying, "It's hard to draft well." And that's obvious as well. Yeah, you have to draft well to build a winning franchise. Go figure. But you at least need the assets in order to be able to try. For now Bahl is a nice addition to the system - it's not out of the question that he plays some games for the Devils next year. I mentioned it in the other thread, but one thing that should definitely be explored is to try and pry Dylan Samberg from the Jets obviously with the understanding ahead of time that he'll forego his senior year and sign. There are rumblings that he doesn't intend to sign with them and it helps that he's friends with Joey Anderson. Maybe it doesn't make sense in Vatanen deadline trade, but perhaps you flip the picks you get for him in a such a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, titans04 said: He could maybe bring back a middle of the road guy for Binghamton at the deadline and we would probably need to retain salary. The Devils will likely retain salary on Simmonds but 'a middle of the road guy for Binghamton' - I doubt very much that will be the return for him. 2nd or 3rd round pick depending on how the rest of his season goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Triumph said: The Devils will likely retain salary on Simmonds but 'a middle of the road guy for Binghamton' - I doubt very much that will be the return for him. 2nd or 3rd round pick depending on how the rest of his season goes. and the odds of of those 2nd and/or 3 rd picks playing more than 100 NHL games at some point in their careers is??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiquated Colorado Rockie Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Speers wasn't going to sign a long term extension so all you can do is deal him to the highest bidder. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, titans04 said: and the odds of of those 2nd and/or 3 rd picks playing more than 100 NHL games at some point in their careers is??? Same as any other 2nd or 3rd. I think we’re a bit deluded at this point, are we going to say that a 2nd or 3rd isn’t sufficient compensation for 20 games of Wayne Simmonds?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, titans04 said: and the odds of of those 2nd and/or 3 rd picks playing more than 100 NHL games at some point in their careers is??? If it's a second rounder, between 30 and 40 percent. If it's a third rounder, between 20 and 30 percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I'm in the minority, but I like Wayne simmonds game.. and what he brings.. not sure what he wants money wise or if he has any interest in NJ.. but he's worth more than a 3rd rd pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Same as any other 2nd or 3rd. I think we’re a bit deluded at this point, are we going to say that a 2nd or 3rd isn’t sufficient compensation for 20 games of Wayne Simmonds?? hardly. Point being the odds are long at best for any 2nd or 3rd no matter what gets them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said: Speers wasn't going to sign a long term extension so all you can do is deal him to the highest bidder. It was nice that Shero threw Hall in on the deal too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, titans04 said: hardly. Point being the odds are long at best for any 2nd or 3rd no matter what gets them here. So let’s just stop drafting 2nd and 3rd rounders. And let Simmonds stay here and watch us lose instead of getting an asset back. Edited December 17, 2019 by mfitz804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs3cups Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, Devil Dan 56 said: It was nice that Shero threw Hall in on the deal too. Really think that's what convinced Arizona to make the deal to be honest... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyP. Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I think Hall's agent established that this player is going Free Agency open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: So let’s just stop drafting 2nd and 3rd rounders. And let Simmonds stay here and watch us lose instead of getting an asset back. Dude- Simmonds is neither here nor there. He's placeholder on a garbage team who will be long forgotten before things turn around. And whatever we get for him will more than likely be a AHL'er. The odds of that moving the NHL clubs needle is against the odds. For every 2nd and 3rd round picks that turn into successful NHL plays there are hundreds that don't. Frankly if you want to dig deeper how many have we successfully groomed through affiliated AHL teams over the years? I bet it's a really small %. Or we can pretend we'll get something for Wayne that will immediately improve the big club. Edited December 17, 2019 by titans04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunninWithTheDevil Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, titans04 said: Dude- Simmonds is neither here nor there. He's placeholder on a garbage team who will be long forgotten before things turn around. And whatever we get for him will more than likely be a AHL'er. The odds of that moving the NHL clubs needle his against the odds. For every 2nd and 3rd round picks that turn into successful NHL plays there are hundreds that don't. Frankly if you want to dig deeper how many have we successfully groomed through affiliated AHL teams over the years? I bet it's a really small %. Or we can pretend we'll get something for Wayne that will immediately improve the big club. I mean, you made a statement that was incorrect - most players dealt at the deadline are traded for picks, not prospects - and are now digging deeper by moving the goalposts. How in the world are there 'hundreds' of 2nd and 3rd round picks that are unsuccessful versus each one that is? That too is ridiculous, and you can just pick a year and find even in the most dismal seasons that there are at least 2 or 3 players from each of those round that make a fine NHL career. So yes, there are 8-10 unsuccessful picks for each successful one, but Simmonds was signed for zero risk this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, titans04 said: Dude- Simmonds is neither here nor there. He's placeholder on a garbage team who will be long forgotten before things turn around. And whatever we get for him will more than likely be a AHL'er. The odds of that moving the NHL clubs needle is against the odds. For every 2nd and 3rd round picks that turn into successful NHL plays there are hundreds that don't. Frankly if you want to dig deeper how many have we successfully groomed through affiliated AHL teams over the years? I bet it's a really small %. Or we can pretend we'll get something for Wayne that will immediately improve the big club. No one is saying that the future of the franchise rides on anything having to do with Wayne Simmonds. It was no skin off anyone's back to bring him here, and we'll get a lottery ticket for him now that it hasn't worked out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, titans04 said: Or we can pretend we'll get something for Wayne that will immediately improve the big club. Nobody thinks that. I don’t think. I know I don’t 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 56 minutes ago, Daniel said: If it's a second rounder, between 30 and 40 percent. If it's a third rounder, between 20 and 30 percent. Arguably the best player on our team right now was drafted in the 3rd round (Blake Coleman). Blackwood - 2nd round Bratt - 6th round Boqvist - 2nd round Vatanen - 4th round There’s plenty of good players to be had after the 1st round... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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