SterioDesign Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Nicomo said: I think so, yes. Grab Bowen Byram and don’t think twice. If the Hawks already took him in this scenario I’d be really tempted to reunite Hughes and Caufield... picking caufield with the 4th overall pick? i dunno. It's funny cause ive seen soooooo many people saying about Kakko that one tournament shouldnt change a players stock and bla bla bla.... but Caufield world championship certainly changed people mind about him he was a 20-25 overall guy and now people talk about him in the top 10... and now top 5 ? haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadevils Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, mfitz804 said: That' a really good question, and I think I might have to. Especially with Hall not having committed/not being in a rush to commit to an extension. Yeah, Hall not committing and waiting to see what Shero does hampers what Shero CAN do! Frankly it is giving the player leverage that you don't have to give, while it also hurts your ability to make other moves because teams know you have the Hall problem in the background. I also see his trade value decreasing the longer we wait at this point. Teams start drafting, signing, trading for other players and that lessens their flexibility, which makes me hate this quote from Shero "It'll play itself out. There's certainly no drama on our end, except when people try to make it. He has one year left on his contract, and I hope to get to it much sooner than that. Let's play it out through the draft. Go through free agency. See where we go. As we go through the summer, we'll sit down and see where we are" https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27006755/part-business-devils-gm-ray-shero-taylor-hall-no-1-pick-more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 49 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: picking caufield with the 4th overall pick? i dunno. It's funny cause ive seen soooooo many people saying about Kakko that one tournament shouldnt change a players stock and bla bla bla.... but Caufield world championship certainly changed people mind about him he was a 20-25 overall guy and now people talk about him in the top 10... and now top 5 ? haha I’ve seen some mocks with him that high. And yes the WJC has made his draft stock rise, but it’s not just about one tournament for me. Kid has scored more goals in the US program than anyone else ever has, and he has amazing chemistry with Hughes. Teams that pass on him over his size will regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ELIAS6 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Steadevils said: Yeah, Hall not committing and waiting to see what Shero does hampers what Shero CAN do! Frankly it is giving the player leverage that you don't have to give, while it also hurts your ability to make other moves because teams know you have the Hall problem in the background. I also see his trade value decreasing the longer we wait at this point. Teams start drafting, signing, trading for other players and that lessens their flexibility, which makes me hate this quote from Shero "It'll play itself out. There's certainly no drama on our end, except when people try to make it. He has one year left on his contract, and I hope to get to it much sooner than that. Let's play it out through the draft. Go through free agency. See where we go. As we go through the summer, we'll sit down and see where we are" https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27006755/part-business-devils-gm-ray-shero-taylor-hall-no-1-pick-more. this is tough because what more can he really do right now. they have made it very clear that they would like to keep hall and hall has made it clear that he is open to signing here but he wants to see how things start to pan out. If both sides are being honest moving him now wouldn't seem to be all that smart either. He just missed a large part of last season and to my knowledge hasn't even began skating yet, how high do we think his stock really is? if anything I think the best play would be to continue moving forward, see how he comes back next season if there is still no movement with him signing.. then begin shopping him out once teams see he is fully back to his play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 46 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said: this is tough because what more can he really do right now. they have made it very clear that they would like to keep hall and hall has made it clear that he is open to signing here but he wants to see how things start to pan out. If both sides are being honest moving him now wouldn't seem to be all that smart either. He just missed a large part of last season and to my knowledge hasn't even began skating yet, how high do we think his stock really is? if anything I think the best play would be to continue moving forward, see how he comes back next season if there is still no movement with him signing.. then begin shopping him out once teams see he is fully back to his play. I'm open to keeping him until the deadline at this point. If he hasn't committed by then, he has to be moved for something. I initially wanted it done before the season, but I understand the reasoning behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadevils Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, 2ELIAS6 said: this is tough because what more can he really do right now. they have made it very clear that they would like to keep hall and hall has made it clear that he is open to signing here but he wants to see how things start to pan out. If both sides are being honest moving him now wouldn't seem to be all that smart either. He just missed a large part of last season and to my knowledge hasn't even began skating yet, how high do we think his stock really is? if anything I think the best play would be to continue moving forward, see how he comes back next season if there is still no movement with him signing.. then begin shopping him out once teams see he is fully back to his play. Yeah I do agree that it is tough and I usually do agree with the wait and see approach. I think I am probably just antsy for action which is clouding my judgement. From the sideline him demanding to wait to see what Shero does is hurting what Shero can do (i.e. pitch FA's on playing with Hall or players with NTC not including the Devils because they know Hall will be here), but there definitely is information/communication we don't know about that might not make that as much of a problem as I am making it out to be. Just hate the potential eventuality of Hall limiting/dictating Shero on what he can do now and then leaving. Again probably some talk/indication from the Hall camp and the Devils on expectations that might not make my perception the reality. "hey taylor we went out and did xxx.." "well I was actually looking for xyz..bye!" "well damn we wouldn't have done xxx if it weren't for you"...Too much power for one player especially one that is hurt as much as Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Steadevils said: Yeah I do agree that it is tough and I usually do agree with the wait and see approach. I think I am probably just antsy for action which is clouding my judgement. From the sideline him demanding to wait to see what Shero does is hurting what Shero can do (i.e. pitch FA's on playing with Hall or players with NTC not including the Devils because they know Hall will be here), but there definitely is information/communication we don't know about that might not make that as much of a problem as I am making it out to be. Just hate the potential eventuality of Hall limiting/dictating Shero on what he can do now and then leaving. Again probably some talk/indication from the Hall camp and the Devils on expectations that might not make my perception the reality. "hey taylor we went out and did xxx.." "well I was actually looking for xyz..bye!" "well damn we wouldn't have done xxx if it weren't for you"...Too much power for one player especially one that is hurt as much as Hall. not to go back to this... and I agree with you 100% cause it makes sense right? Then why was absolutely everyone here against me when i'd say it was dumb of Lou to refuse to talk contract during a player's last season and wait til summer to begin talks when it may be too late. It's only common sense to protect yourself and keep as much leverage as possible. Doing it that way you give all the power to the player and it makes no sense. And it's not rumours, that's the way he wanted to do things it's official and proven. I'll never understand fans defending him on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: not to go back to this... and I agree with you 100% cause it makes sense right? Then why was absolutely everyone here against me when i'd say it was dumb of Lou to refuse to talk contract during a player's last season and wait til summer to begin talks when it may be too late. It's only common sense to protect yourself and keep as much leverage as possible. Doing it that way you give all the power to the player and it makes no sense. And it's not rumours, that's the way he wanted to do things it's official and proven. I'll never understand fans defending him on that Fun fact: the seven years of bad luck you got for punching a mirror after Parise left will expire in a couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: Fun fact: the seven years of bad luck you got for punching a mirror after Parise left will expire in a couple of weeks. didnt punch a mirror i threw my phone and broke the screen lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: didnt punch a mirror i threw my phone and broke the screen lol Ha!!! I hear you. Mine was more of a deep sigh and a long consideration about my season tickets at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: Ha!!! I hear you. Mine was more of a deep sigh and a long consideration about my season tickets at the time it was not as much about my fav player leaving than the insane frustration of seeing it coming and calling it based on the way Lou handled his UFAs that i always hated. I was already frustrated with Rafalski, Nieds etc etc i really didn't want to lose Zach too but sure enough. Lou paved the way straight to Minny Which as annoying as i've been with this. Hopefully people see i just don't agree with his systematic approach... and that i didnt come off straight up delusional like Daniel at the moment... at least i could have rational discussions about it and use facts lol Edited June 19, 2019 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadevils Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 18 hours ago, SterioDesign said: it was not as much about my fav player leaving than the insane frustration of seeing it coming and calling it based on the way Lou handled his UFAs that i always hated. I was already frustrated with Rafalski, Nieds etc etc i really didn't want to lose Zach too but sure enough. Lou paved the way straight to Minny Which as annoying as i've been with this. Hopefully people see i just don't agree with his systematic approach... and that i didnt come off straight up delusional like Daniel at the moment... at least i could have rational discussions about it and use facts lol I'm on your side for sure. I was drinking the cool aid during the Lou years, but now I am frustrated to see Shero quote Lou with "if you have time you use it." It's a stupid simplification. I think it is disingenuous of Hall to say he wants to be here, but only if xxx takes place. He is clearly just as open to leaving as he is to signing or else he'd just sign and then be an advocate for the team to help us attract talent. Sign and be a part of the solution if that is what you want otherwise I'd move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I still don't get why he couldn't sign and have a gentlemans agreement with Shero that if things aren't working out in a couple of years he could be moved. I just don't want another Kovalchuk style will-he-or-wont-he summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, Steadevils said: He is clearly just as open to leaving as he is to signing or else he'd just sign and then be an advocate for the team to help us attract talent. Sign and be a part of the solution if that is what you want otherwise I'd move him. Well stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Does anyone think it could be the Devils that are holding up the contract negotiations with Hall? Maybe they still have questions concerning his health? Maybe they want to see something else in terms of his rehab before the make an offer to him? I would imagine usually in most negotiations it's the player that holds up the process, debating and talking things over with his agent, family, and what have you, but there's still the possibility that the team hasn't even made an offer yet, and I don't see anyone mentioning that. Obviously not all of the inner workings and back and forth of a deal are always made public, but there's a chance if there was an offer on the table and Hall was the one holding it up, that we might know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Does anyone think it could be the Devils that are holding up the contract negotiations with Hall? Maybe they still have questions concerning his health? Maybe they want to see something else in terms of his rehab before the make an offer to him? I would imagine usually in most negotiations it's the player that holds up the process, debating and talking things over with his agent, family, and what have you, but there's still the possibility that the team hasn't even made an offer yet, and I don't see anyone mentioning that. Obviously not all of the inner workings and back and forth of a deal are always made public, but there's a chance if there was an offer on the table and Hall was the one holding it up, that we might know about it. If one believes the things Shero has said, then i don't believe that's possible. He could be full of sh!t, in that case, its possible. I wouldn't blame him, a lot of people are just expecting him to give Hall a huge extension that will make him one of the 5-10 highest paid players in the league, I think it would be natural to have a little concern about doing so after a guy just missed basically an entire season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Steadevils said: He is clearly just as open to leaving as he is to signing or else he'd just sign and then be an advocate for the team to help us attract talent. Sign and be a part of the solution if that is what you want otherwise I'd move him. Nailed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: If one believes the things Shero has said, then i don't believe that's possible. He could be full of sh!t, in that case, its possible. I wouldn't blame him, a lot of people are just expecting him to give Hall a huge extension that will make him one of the 5-10 highest paid players in the league, I think it would be natural to have a little concern about doing so after a guy just missed basically an entire season. What kinds of things has he said? I haven't been paying close attention, but I didn't really see anyone comment or quote something he's said. I agree though, and I've said it since late last year - I wouldn't throw the entire Federal Reserve at the guy - not with his injury issues the last season or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 If Hall doesnt sign by the start of the season he must be moved, or teams will just sit idly by and wait for him to hit the open market. And we all know what teams will throw plenty of cash at him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: What kinds of things has he said? I haven't been paying close attention, but I didn't really see anyone comment or quote something he's said. I agree though, and I've said it since late last year - I wouldn't throw the entire Federal Reserve at the guy - not with his injury issues the last season or two. That he's part of the future, he's a significant part of the franchise, he wants to get to it sooner rather than later, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wensink Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, slasher72 said: If Hall doesnt sign by the start of the season he must be moved, or teams will just sit idly by and wait for him to hit the open market. And we all know what teams will throw plenty of cash at him We can trade him during the season, someone will want him for a playoff run. Will the return be better for us, probably not. Both sides should know what's up before the season starts and act accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: That he's part of the future, he's a significant part of the franchise, he wants to get to it sooner rather than later, etc. Gotcha. Well, I guess even if that all is true and we can believe what he says, that still doesn't necessarily mean that they've offered him a deal. It's possible for him to still be part of the future and them not quite sure what deal they're comfortable in offering him. In regards to the "sooner rather than later" bit, I guess that's a relative term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, John Wensink said: We can trade him during the season, someone will want him for a playoff run. Will the return be better for us, probably not. Both sides should know what's up before the season starts and act accordingly. Can't risk him getting hurt and taking the majority of the season to heal up for July 1st 2020. He honestly should not dress for the Devils without an extension. The team is taking a huge, huge risk putting him out there. Think of how badly Parise (and Kovalchuk, for that matter) leaving without getting anything in return set the Devils back. Cannot have that happen again with Hall. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 57 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Gotcha. Well, I guess even if that all is true and we can believe what he says, that still doesn't necessarily mean that they've offered him a deal. It's possible for him to still be part of the future and them not quite sure what deal they're comfortable in offering him. In regards to the "sooner rather than later" bit, I guess that's a relative term. Anything is possible, we only know what both parties tell us, and don't know if either of them is telling us everything or if everything they are telling us is true. Having read everything I have read so far, and reading between the lines, I believe that the holdup is on the player's end, like 99% of the time. The concept that Taylor would be like "please sign me now" and Ray would be all "yeah, we'll see" doesn't really jive with the way things work, nor the way things have been reported. 58 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said: Can't risk him getting hurt and taking the majority of the season to heal up for July 1st 2020. He honestly should not dress for the Devils without an extension. The team is taking a huge, huge risk putting him out there. Think of how badly Parise (and Kovalchuk, for that matter) leaving without getting anything in return set the Devils back. Cannot have that happen again with Hall. That's true too. I suspect something will be done before the season starts. What that may be remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 19 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: That's true too. I suspect something will be done before the season starts. What that may be remains to be seen. I really hope it isn’t a lot of us developing (or furthering, in some cases) a drinking problem.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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