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The Taylor Hall Watch Thread

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18 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I'm warming to the idea of offer sheeting him. If we retain our first rounders, what are the odds we get to draft a Marner type guy with one of them? Probably not too high. 

Of course, are we assuming Marner definitely gets $10,568,590 AAV? If you give him under that, its 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd. I'm guessing he does. 

If you figure you're going to be a bad team, then at least one of those picks should be a really good player.  But if you're of the belief that the GM has a plan and knows what he's doing (very questionable that he does in my opinion, but I'm done ranting about him for the moment) you have the foundation of a team that at the very least penciled in for a playoff berth every year: two top centers, an MVP left wing, pretty good forward depth and solid goaltending.  If you add another elite forward to that mix, you take the risk on not having those draft picks. 

And of course, you have a lot of high draft picks this year.  Stock up the prospect pipeline in this year's draft on top of the high volume of picks you've had over the past three years and put out a mortgage on those future picks for success now. 

You might not even have to do the four first round pick offer sheet to Marner, and instead go after Timo Meier, Laine or Kyle Connor. 

Ray said "fvck that sh!t" so far as supposed gentlemen's agreement.  Well prove you're willing to get off your ass and burn some other team's house down.

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I think the natural trade partner is Colorado. They have the talent to win now and Hall could really put them over the top. They also have a lot of young talent and assets. I'd start with Hall for #4 and Tyson Barrie with the expectation we'd have to give up a bit more or maybe settle for #16, but I think Colorado would be intrigued enough to listen. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

I think the natural trade partner is Colorado. They have the talent to win now and Hall could really put them over the top. They also have a lot of young talent and assets. I'd start with Hall for #4 and Tyson Barrie with the expectation we'd have to give up a bit more or maybe settle for #16, but I think Colorado would be intrigued enough to listen. 

its not going to happen, really not to sound like a d*ck by any means but theres not even any sense in continuing to discuss this option of trading hall before the draft. shero said again today during an interview on nil network that neither side is in a rush and they wont even begin to sit down and discuss the future until after 7/1. with this I think its safe to put the idea of trading hall at the draft to bed.

Edited by 2ELIAS6
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17 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

I think the natural trade partner is Colorado. They have the talent to win now and Hall could really put them over the top. They also have a lot of young talent and assets. I'd start with Hall for #4 and Tyson Barrie with the expectation we'd have to give up a bit more or maybe settle for #16, but I think Colorado would be intrigued enough to listen. 

No. Tyson Barrie is not what this team needs.  We have him already in Damon Severson, and may have another version of him in Ty Smith. 

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1 hour ago, titans04 said:

Has that ever happened before, they would be going to war with the union and as if we don't have enough problems attracting big time free agents already.  Sounds good here to some but I don't see anyway in hell where it's a real possibility. I can only grin at the thought that in sports if your top players are going into their last year of their contracts they don't get to play. 

I mean, it's less forcing him to sit, and more being forced to trade him before the start of the season.

I would agree that you probably cannot healthy scratch your best player at the start of the year.

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Offersheet Marner and pay the draft pick compensation and keep Hall.  Four first round picks for a team that should at least not be terrible is worth having two top forward lines that consist of Hall, Marner, Hughes, Nico, and Palmieri. 

Gosh, I'm so glad you're not running the Devils. We have a prospect pipeline full of question marks and a lackluster defense. If you offer sheet Marner and sign him for 10.5 and Hall walks, this team could be buried for a decade. There are very few scenarios where a team like NJ, that isn't so good at attracting FAs, can afford to lose four first round picks. A few months ago it looked like we had a long rebuild in front of us. NJ wins the first overall pick and all of a sudden Ray is sh!t and a Cup needs to be won within the next two years.

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7 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Gosh, I'm so glad you're not running the Devils. We have a prospect pipeline full of question marks and a lackluster defense. If you offer sheet Marner and sign him for 10.5 and Hall walks, this team could be buried for a decade. There are very few scenarios where a team like NJ, that isn't so good at attracting FAs, can afford to lose four first round picks. A few months ago it looked like we had a long rebuild in front of us. NJ wins the first overall pick and all of a sudden Ray is sh!t and a Cup needs to be won within the next two years.

Well that's what you get for being a winning franchise for awhile... you get an entitled and spoiled fanbase with absolutely no patience. 

this is 100% true. There's 31 teams now. It's fvcking hard to compete

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3 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Gosh, I'm so glad you're not running the Devils. We have a prospect pipeline full of question marks and a lackluster defense. If you offer sheet Marner and sign him for 10.5 and Hall walks, this team could be buried for a decade. There are very few scenarios where a team like NJ, that isn't so good at attracting FAs, can afford to lose four first round picks. A few months ago it looked like we had a long rebuild in front of us. NJ wins the first overall pick and all of a sudden Ray is sh!t and a Cup needs to be won within the next two years.

You don't win based on what Corey Pronman thinks of your prospect pipeline, and all you have to do is go back and look at how many real impact players get drafted in a typical first round (the average is probably 25% perhaps less).  You win based on having talent on your NHL roster.

I must be taking crazy pills (or perhaps not taking crazy pills) if I'm hearing that people don't want to pursue a right wing that put up 94 points as a 21 year old, who very clearly will go where the money is, because we need those draft picks because of free agents don't want to come here?  Say what?

I fear though you're correct, and this is Ray's real thinking despite pretending to be a tough guy in interviews. 

We won the lottery and are getting someone who we expect to be one of the top five centers in the game, and some people are still "stay the course."  FFS.

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Well that's what you get for being a winning franchise for awhile... you get an entitled and spoiled fanbase with absolutely no patience. 

this is 100% true. There's 31 teams now. It's fvcking hard to compete

I say give up our next ten first rounders to bring PK here.  And when he retires, make him the GM of the team.

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Just now, Daniel said:

I say give up our next ten first rounders to bring PK here.  And when he retires, make him the GM of the team.

Also let him redesign the uniforms so they’re either purple or cheetah print. 

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3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I say give up our next ten first rounders to bring PK here.  And when he retires, make him the GM of the team.

Only 10? That's a steal by your standard for Ray.

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

Also let him redesign the uniforms so they’re either purple or cheetah print. 

And have Harris and Blitzer rent out a room in Sterio's house so that PK and all of his buddies can hang out with him. Every. Single. Day.

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1 minute ago, Daniel said:

You don't win based on what Corey Pronman thinks of your prospect pipeline, and all you have to do is go back and look at how many real impact players get drafted in a typical first round (the average is probably 25% perhaps less).  You win based on having talent on your NHL roster.

I must be taking crazy pills (or perhaps not taking crazy pills) if I'm hearing that people don't want to pursue a right wing that put up 94 points as a 21 year old, who very clearly will go where the money is, because we need those draft picks because of free agents don't want to come here?  Say what?

I fear though you're correct, and this is Ray's real thinking despite pretending to be a tough guy in interviews. 

 We won the lottery and are getting someone who we expect to be one of the top five centers in the game, and some people are still "stay the course."  FFS.

How many teams have won the Stanley Cup after laying down a max offer sheet and losing four consecutive first round picks?

Clearly your proposal isn't a very common pathway to success...and definitely not a necessary one.

And for the most part teams that win the Stanley Cup are ones that build out from good draft picks (Kane, Toews, Keith.....Malkin/Crosby/Letang......Doughty/Kopitar/Quick). Though of course, those teams can draw FAs to them as well.

You don't fear I'm correct because Ray is an idiot, you fear I'm correct because you know you're being ridiculous.

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4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

You don't win based on what Corey Pronman thinks of your prospect pipeline, and all you have to do is go back and look at how many real impact players get drafted in a typical first round (the average is probably 25% perhaps less).  You win based on having talent on your NHL roster.

I must be taking crazy pills (or perhaps not taking crazy pills) if I'm hearing that people don't want to pursue a right wing that put up 94 points as a 21 year old, who very clearly will go where the money is, because we need those draft picks because of free agents don't want to come here?  Say what?

I fear though you're correct, and this is Ray's real thinking despite pretending to be a tough guy in interviews. 

We won the lottery and are getting someone who we expect to be one of the top five centers in the game, and some people are still "stay the course."  FFS.

i don't even know where to begin with this.

Do you understand how much of a high risk it is to gamble all those 4 round picks for no guaranteed results? And if things doesnt quite work out what we'd lose? at a time where we need all the assets we need? (again... we're in this mess right now BECAUSE Lou did things the way you want Shero to do things right now. Sacrificed the future for the present.. the present sh!t the bed.. then you got nothing) Toronto had Marner and a WAY better roster than us and they didnt make it far this season. Why do you imagine it would be better for us? We'd still need to upgrade our roster quiiiiite a bit. And the best way to do it is through the draft and by trades, and to trade you need assets, which is really slim at the moment.

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

i don't even know where to begin with this.

Do you understand how much of a high risk it is to gamble all those 4 round picks for no guaranteed results? And if things doesnt quite work out what we'd lose? at a time where we need all the assets we need? (again... we're in this mess right now BECAUSE Lou did things the way you want Shero to do things right now. Sacrificed the future for the present.. the present sh!t the bed.. then you got nothing) Toronto had Marner and a WAY better roster than us and they didnt make it far this season. Why do you imagine it would be better for us? We'd still need to upgrade our roster quiiiiite a bit. And the best way to do it is through the draft and by trades, and to trade you need assets, which is really slim at the moment.

It's very simple.  Do you expect Mitch Marner to continue to be an elite player or not?  If the answer is yes, and you have the cap space to sign him and keep the players you want to keep, which you should if you know what you're doing, then he is worth four first round draft picks.  The only reason he isn't is if you think we'll have good odds at Alexis Lafreniere (who Marner may even be better than anyway) which means that you are even dumber for defending Shero's track record since he got here.

And it is not a high risk to gamble those picks at all if you know you are getting an elite player.  Yeah, Marner could tear up his knee in training camp and never be the same again.  Of course, there's just as much of a chance that those four picks turn into ho hum NHLers, which very much the case with Castron's four first round picks between 2013 and 2014. 

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10 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

How many teams have won the Stanley Cup after laying down a max offer sheet and losing four consecutive first round picks?

Clearly your proposal isn't a very common pathway to success...and definitely not a necessary one.

And for the most part teams that win the Stanley Cup are ones that build out from good draft picks (Kane, Toews, Keith.....Malkin/Crosby/Letang......Doughty/Kopitar/Quick). Though of course, those teams can draw FAs to them as well.

You don't fear I'm correct because Ray is an idiot, you fear I'm correct because you know you're being ridiculous.

It hasn't happened, so we don't know.  There was a time when teams thought you draft a big guy who sucks instead of a small guy who did nothing but produce because you can't teach size, or some such silly aphorism.

A specific player is either worth the money and the draft compensation or he is not.  I don't hear any actual defense of the claim that Marner isn't worth it, other than well you never know who those draft picks might be.  I could give you six consecutive first round draft picks we made and even Timo Meier is better than all of them put together. 

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5 minutes ago, Daniel said:

It hasn't happened, so we don't know.  There was a time when teams thought you draft a big guy who sucks instead of a small guy who did nothing but produce because you can't teach size, or some such silly aphorism.

A specific player is either worth the money and the draft compensation or he is not.  I don't hear any actual defense of the claim that Marner isn't worth it, other than well you never know who those draft picks might be.  I could give you six consecutive first round draft picks we made and even Timo Meier is better than all of them put together. 

I've said many times on here the little value even first round picks can carry. But for a rebuilding team like the Devils, there hold a lot more weight. If we do better than expected and it looks like a pick could be in the 20s then we can trade it in season. To trade a first round pick that is years away though along with multiple other first round picks. That's not great tactics for a team that needs prospects....or any team really.

 

I'll give you that with the "wealth" redistribution that takes place in the NHL...there's no great answer for teams that have perennial success.

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1 hour ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

its not going to happen, really not to sound like a d*ck by any means but theres not even any sense in continuing to discuss this option of trading hall before the draft. shero said again today during an interview on nil network that neither side is in a rush and they wont even begin to sit down and discuss the future until after 7/1. with this I think its safe to put the idea of trading hall at the draft to bed.

since marner is an rfa this can always be revisted mid july if trades and free agency hasn't gone well and marner hasn't signed yet. just thought it was an interesting thing to think about.

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1 minute ago, Neb00rs said:

I've said many times on here the little value even first round picks can carry. But for a rebuilding team like the Devils, there hold a lot more weight. If we do better than expected and it looks like a pick could be in the 20s then we can trade it in season. To trade a first round pick that is years away though along with multiple other first round picks. That's not great tactics for a team that needs prospects....or any team really.

 

I'll give you that with the "wealth" redistribution that takes place in the NHL...there's no great answer for teams that have perennial success.

Only in a world where Ray Shero is objectively the most incompetent GM to ever walk the face of the earth is this team "rebuilding."  Since he's gotten here, he has had two number one overall picks, both of whom are centers and one of whom is a "special player."  The goaltending should at lest be stable for the first time in a while.  We have a recent MVP.  And we've had more draft picks that pretty much everyone in the past five years.

After this weekend there is no more rebuild and "build through the draft" should be grounds for an immediate ban from the forum.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Only in a world where Ray Shero is objectively the most incompetent GM to ever walk the face of the earth is this team "rebuilding."  Since he's gotten here, he has had two number one overall picks, both of whom are centers and one of whom is a "special player."  The goaltending should at lest be stable for the first time in a while.  We have a recent MVP.  And we've had more draft picks that pretty much everyone in the past five years.

After this weekend there is no more rebuild and "build through the draft" should be grounds for an immediate ban from the forum.

If Talyor Hall stays, we're not rebuilding. If he goes, we are. Whatever "rebuilding" means that is. I suppose you can still say just "building" if the prefix is what is driving you mad.

Btw, you know who uses a lot of prefixes? Ray Shero. Also, Hitler. 🤔

Edited by Neb00rs

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3 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Btw, you know who uses a lot of prefixes? Ray Shero. Also, Hitler. 🤔

At least he doesn't resemble Hitler.

Looking at you, Chico Resch. 

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28 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

If Talyor Hall stays, we're not rebuilding. If he goes, we are. Whatever "rebuilding" means that is. I suppose you can still say just "building" if the prefix is what is driving you mad.

Btw, you know who uses a lot of prefixes? Ray Shero. Also, Hitler. 🤔

And if Hall leaves that's because Shero was busy playing Mario Kart when he should have been trying to add talent.

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16 minutes ago, Daniel said:

And if Hall leaves that's because Shero was busy playing Mario Kart when he should have been trying to add talent.

Okay, first of all, if you've read any interview with Shero lately, his pastime of choice is clearly movie binging, not Mario Kart. He's recently quoted There's Something about Mary and Draft Day.

This only further proves how off base you are lately.

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2 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

If Talyor Hall stays, we're not rebuilding. If he goes, we are. Whatever "rebuilding" means that is. I suppose you can still say just "building" if the prefix is what is driving you mad.

Btw, you know who uses a lot of prefixes? Ray Shero. Also, Hitler. 🤔

 

How about we say :

 

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53 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

 

How about we say :

 

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fvck. That. Guy.

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