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The Taylor Hall Watch Thread

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Posted (edited)

At this point I'm starting to hope that Hall agrees to take less money than he otherwise might to help the team fit in more talent, perhaps in exchange for getting as much money up front in bonuses as possible.  Like not a whole lot less, but perhaps something like $9 million AAV as opposed to the $11 million he could probably hold out for.

If he agrees to that, the Devils could probably in theory give out a $13 million AAV deal to someone, maybe an offersheet to Marner that the Leafs can't match.

Edited by Daniel

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16 minutes ago, Daniel said:

At this point I'm starting to hope that Hall agrees to take less money than he otherwise might to help the team fit in more talent, perhaps in exchange for getting as much money up front in bonuses as possible.  Like not a whole lot less, but perhaps something like $9 million AAV as opposed to the $11 million he could probably hold out for.

If he agrees to that, the Devils could probably in theory give out a $13 million AAV deal to someone, maybe an offersheet to Marner that the Leafs can't match.

No player is worth 4 unprotected 1st round picks outside of McDavid imo.

image.png.f6890953d5856f14d01e06c03e2d4d04.png

I'm not even crazy about the idea of giving up two first round picks.  Unless you're getting Marner for less than 8.118M AAV I don't want him, which he wouldn't agree to anyway.

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43 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

No player is worth 4 unprotected 1st round picks outside of McDavid imo.

image.png.f6890953d5856f14d01e06c03e2d4d04.png

I'm not even crazy about the idea of giving up two first round picks.  Unless you're getting Marner for less than 8.118M AAV I don't want him, which he wouldn't agree to anyway.

It’s worth it for someone like Marner. 

The Rangers went without a first round pick for four years.  They eventually decided to tear it all down, but you look at where they were picking and they really only theoretically missed out on one superstar, which was Sebastian Aho in 2015. 

We would be a much younger team at the start of that stretch than the Rags were in 2013.

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17 minutes ago, Daniel said:

It’s worth it for someone like Marner. 

The Rangers went without a first round pick for four years.  They eventually decided to tear it all down, but you look at where they were picking and they really only theoretically missed out on one superstar, which was Sebastian Aho in 2015. 

We would be a much younger team at the start of that stretch than the Rags were in 2013.

again - this assumes that marner WANTS to come to NJ. he has said time and time again he wants to stay in toronto and wants matthews' deal.

three is no offer sheet issue - he's either signing there or getting traded because they can't get it done under the cap.

they're dealing kapanen - i'm fairly certain of it. unless they get someone to take zaitsev off their hands by giving something good with him.

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

It’s worth it for someone like Marner. 

The Rangers went without a first round pick for four years.  They eventually decided to tear it all down, but you look at where they were picking and they really only theoretically missed out on one superstar, which was Sebastian Aho in 2015. 

We would be a much younger team at the start of that stretch than the Rags were in 2013.

I guess it also depends on how close you think the Devils are to being a team that makes regular deep runs in the playoffs.

I could part ways with four 1sts in the 20-31 range, sure.  But.. I mean this team has a lot of problems still.

Are you honestly confident that we won't finish in the bottom 25% of the league next year?

...though I suppose adding Marner would be a huge boon that would probably push us into the playoff picture.

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

It’s worth it for someone like Marner. 

The Rangers went without a first round pick for four years.  They eventually decided to tear it all down, but you look at where they were picking and they really only theoretically missed out on one superstar, which was Sebastian Aho in 2015. 

We would be a much younger team at the start of that stretch than the Rags were in 2013.

I have significantly less faith than you do that the Devils aren't in the draft lottery again next year. And if we're passing out offer sheets, don't you think those assets are better utilized to acquire a defenseman with a pulse? 

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On April 10, 2019 at 12:47 PM, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

I think Shero should offer Karlsson whatever the hell he wants and bring in Jordan Eberle.

It’s no secret that Eberle and Hall are best friends. If you give him 5/32.5 I think he signs it, we can easily afford to overpay. 

Hall-Nico-Eberle

Bratt-Hughes-Palmieri

Boqvist-Zacha-Coleman

Wood-Zajac-Who The fvck Cares 

Karlsson-Greene

Smith-Severson

Butcher - Who The Fvck Cares

i like it when I can dream. 

I hear that the guy you've got penciled in as 4th line RW is a helluva player.  Hell, he even plays defense!  

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18 minutes ago, AEWHistory said:

I hear that the guy you've got penciled in as 4th line RW is a helluva player.  Hell, he even plays defense!  

The problem is that we had that guy at like 9 out of 12 forward positions and playing our entire defense. 

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5 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

No player is worth 4 unprotected 1st round picks outside of McDavid imo.

image.png.f6890953d5856f14d01e06c03e2d4d04.png

I'm not even crazy about the idea of giving up two first round picks.  Unless you're getting Marner for less than 8.118M AAV I don't want him, which he wouldn't agree to anyway.

that's an awful lot of assets and sacrifices to give up when all we had to do is finish the 2015 season 2 spots lower and simply draft him lol oh how life goes sometimes.... 

 

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21 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

that's an awful lot of assets and sacrifices to give up when all we had to do is finish the 2015 season 2 spots lower and simply draft him lol oh how life goes sometimes.... 

 

Give it up, Future Boy...you can’t go back. 

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

Give it up, Future Boy...you can’t go back. 

i dont recall suggesting going back or suggesting it was even possible lol Just pointing out the obvious

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8 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

The problem is that we had that guy at like 9 out of 12 forward positions and playing our entire defense. 

I know, right?  Dude was averaging 124 minutes a game!  

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On 4/12/2019 at 4:27 PM, MB3 said:

I have significantly less faith than you do that the Devils aren't in the draft lottery again next year. And if we're passing out offer sheets, don't you think those assets are better utilized to acquire a defenseman with a pulse? 

Weren't you the one who called me something like stupid or an idiot for suggesting it was possible the Devils wouldn't make the playoffs this season? If so, boy how optimism wavers. 

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1 hour ago, thecoffeecake said:

Weren't you the one who called me something like stupid or an idiot for suggesting it was possible the Devils wouldn't make the playoffs this season? If so, boy how optimism wavers. 

I don’t think I would say you’re stupid for suggesting the devils might most the playoffs.

I would definitely say you’re stupid for a long list of other reasons, though, Stan.

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On 4/12/2019 at 4:27 PM, MB3 said:

I have significantly less faith than you do that the Devils aren't in the draft lottery again next year. And if we're passing out offer sheets, don't you think those assets are better utilized to acquire a defenseman with a pulse? 

We should be done with “building through the draft” after June 22.  That’s what drafting Jack Hughes on top of what else we have gives us the luxury of doing.  Maybe the calculus is different if there’s a McDavid type next year, but there isn’t.  

If we’re talking about the four first round draft pick offer sheet for Marner, compare it to the Columbus’ four first rounders towards the end of the Castron era:  Ryan Murray, Alexander Wennberg, Sonny Milano and Zach Werenski.  That’s worth Mitch Marner.

The more realistic thing would be to use our 2020 first rounder as a centerpiece for someone like Trouba or Subban.  I’ll risk the small percentage chance of losing out on Alexis Lafrienier as compared to the person we’d likely otherwise be drafting who doesn’t figure to be as good as either of those two players.

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6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

We should be done with “building through the draft” after June 22.  That’s what drafting Jack Hughes on top of what else we have gives us the luxury of doing.  Maybe the calculus is different if there’s a McDavid type next year, but there isn’t.  

If we’re talking about the four first round draft pick offer sheet for Marner, compare it to the Columbus’ four first rounders towards the end of the Castron era:  Ryan Murray, Alexander Wennberg, Sonny Milano and Zach Werenski.  That’s worth Mitch Marner.

The more realistic thing would be to use our 2020 first rounder as a centerpiece for someone like Trouba or Subban.  I’ll risk the small percentage chance of losing out on Alexis Lafrienier as compared to the person we’d likely otherwise be drafting who doesn’t figure to be as good as either of those two players.

Maybe not quite McDavid level, but isn’t the hype around that kid insanely high already? 

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24 minutes ago, Daniel said:

We should be done with “building through the draft” after June 22.  That’s what drafting Jack Hughes on top of what else we have gives us the luxury of doing.  Maybe the calculus is different if there’s a McDavid type next year, but there isn’t.  

If we’re talking about the four first round draft pick offer sheet for Marner, compare it to the Columbus’ four first rounders towards the end of the Castron era:  Ryan Murray, Alexander Wennberg, Sonny Milano and Zach Werenski.  That’s worth Mitch Marner.

The more realistic thing would be to use our 2020 first rounder as a centerpiece for someone like Trouba or Subban.  I’ll risk the small percentage chance of losing out on Alexis Lafrienier as compared to the person we’d likely otherwise be drafting who doesn’t figure to be as good as either of those two players.

I’m specifically talking about offer-sheeting. I’d first say you’re critically underrating Werenski, but even if I agreed with you that Marner > those 4 players, it’s risky as hell for a team that may very well miss the playoffs next year to offer 4 first round picks for anyone who’s name isn’t McDavid. 

Trading just one pick? If we can re-sign Hall i can get behind that. 

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Yeah as much as the thought of a Hall - Hughes - Marner line is making me feel dizzy. It's still incredibly risky. 

Then in order to afford all those guys in a few years when Hischier, Hall, Marner, Hughes and Smith are all getting paid... there's a chance that we're one of those teams with top guys but no depth cause we just can't afford it lol then we'd need a few extra fresh and cheap first rounders on their entry level contracts lol

But at the end of the day i just can't imagine Marner signing an offer sheet with NJ. It would take a lot for him to leave Toronto i think. Looks like he's enjoying himself and Marleau seems to be a great mentor to him. I believe he lives with him and all and Marleau will still be on the team next year. Can't see him jumping on a random team he doesnt know much about. But who knows what agents can put in these kids heads i guess. 

But i also think Toronto would just match the offer, he's their best player. I know from the outside looking in you look at the cap and see that they can't afford him... but obviously if you're toronto you simply trade someone else to make room. You don't just let your top player walk

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6 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

But i also think Toronto would just match the offer, he's their best player.

I don’t follow other team’s stats, so my first reaction to this statement was “better than Matthews and Tavares?”. Looking at this year’s stats, you actually could argue Marner was their best player. Tavares or Matthews was their third best player this year, wrap your head around that.

That said, there’s no way on God’s green earth that Toronto loses him by not matching an offer sheet. 

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9 hours ago, MB3 said:

I’m specifically talking about offer-sheeting. I’d first say you’re critically underrating Werenski, but even if I agreed with you that Marner > those 4 players, it’s risky as hell for a team that may very well miss the playoffs next year to offer 4 first round picks for anyone who’s name isn’t McDavid. 

Trading just one pick? If we can re-sign Hall i can get behind that. 

Marner is what we hope Hughes will be, so he’s worth the draft picks.  I’m more concerned with how much you’d have to pay him and that it would make it much more difficult to upgrade on defense.  So yes, I’d rather try and get a Subban or Trouba both of whom you might be able to buy relatively low on.

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So I've seen many people calling for Hall to be traded if he's not extended by the start of the season. How popular is that opinion? Given what Columbus just did with Bread and Bob, (which would not have happened if they traded them away), does it seem like that big a risk to take a chance with Hall til at least midseason and 1) give him a chance to convince himself to stay 2) hope for success to attract more FA's?

I know it's not the same situation as CBJ is in a win now mode (had they been sellers they could have entered rebuild mode immediately) and we're looking to come out of a rebuild, but if we traded him away, we can't know where we stand.

 

Edited by landofvanilla

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9 minutes ago, landofvanilla said:

So I've seen many people calling for Hall to be traded if he's not extended by the start of the season. How popular is that opinion? Given what Columbus just did with Bread and Bob, (which would not have happened if they traded them away), does it seem like that big a risk to take a chance with Hall til at least midseason and 1) give him a chance to convince himself to stay 2) hope for success to attract more FA's?

I know it's not the same situation as CBJ is in a win now mode (had they been sellers they could have entered rebuild mode immediately) and we're looking to come out of a rebuild, but if we traded him away, we can't know where we stand.

 

I say don't take any risks and move him if he seems like he's not sure about staying, but things are definitely complicated in that he's coming off a season where he missed a fvck-ton of games, and has a bit of an injury history (he misses games, just no way to dispute that fact). 

I think Devils fans do need to prepare for the fact that if he is moved, the return isn't going to be as sexy as they're hoping for.  His missing so much of last season will have GMs trying to buy on the low side...if it's all low-ball offers, can't see Shero automatically just giving him up.  Hopefully it never comes to that.    

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2 hours ago, landofvanilla said:

So I've seen many people calling for Hall to be traded if he's not extended by the start of the season. How popular is that opinion? Given what Columbus just did with Bread and Bob, (which would not have happened if they traded them away), does it seem like that big a risk to take a chance with Hall til at least midseason and 1) give him a chance to convince himself to stay 2) hope for success to attract more FA's?

I know it's not the same situation as CBJ is in a win now mode (had they been sellers they could have entered rebuild mode immediately) and we're looking to come out of a rebuild, but if we traded him away, we can't know where we stand.

 

Lets put it this way. If you run across the street without looking and don't get hit by a car. That doesn't mean it was a smart thing to do.

Basically as a GM, putting yourself in a situation where you can lose your top assets for nothing is never a good decision. Sometimes you may be lucky and it doesn't hurt you too bad but it doesn' mean it's smart. It's a huge gamble.

The Colombus situation specifically could go various ways. But they were also a point away from not making the playoffs. That would have been catastrophic... But they made it.. Now they could go all the way and win he cup and lose those guys in the summer. They could win and re-sign them (unlikely cause i guess there's bad blood). Or they could lose in finals. Lose the guys in the summer. Have a worst position in the draft to rebuild and then in hindsight it's putting them in a worst position to compensate from the loss of those guys.

Or they could have traded panarin and bob last summer for guys that would have done the job too, who knows. There's many scenarios. 

I mean it also depends on what you're looking at. Looking at us... none of us wish that we would have never made it to the finals in 2012. Obviously. But in hindsight. It potentially would have been better for our future to trade Parise and get a better pick than fvcking Matteau. (or forfeit that godamn pick like common sense had it but that's another topic) 

I've said this a million times but Shero handled it perfectly in Pittsburgh. Staal was going to leave and losing Letang for nothing would have been bad. Gave them an ultimatum, he traded Staal and got something in return before the season so he could work on his roster still and go into the season prepared. If you wait during the season, it's a gamble cause so many things can put you in a bad position when you'll get the short end of the stick or can't make a certain move.

As a GM all you can do is put yourself in the best possible position to succeed. Some moves will pan out and some won't. Putting yourself in a position to lose many of your top players isn't a smart move on paper.

 

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2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I say don't take any risks and move him if he seems like he's not sure about staying, but things are definitely complicated in that he's coming off a season where he missed a fvck-ton of games, and has a bit of an injury history (he misses games, just no way to dispute that fact). 

I think Devils fans do need to prepare for the fact that if he is moved, the return isn't going to be as sexy as they're hoping for.  His missing so much of last season will have GMs trying to buy on the low side...if it's all low-ball offers, can't see Shero automatically just giving him up.  Hopefully it never comes to that.    

Ray needs to figure Taylor out. If he’s undecided, convince him. If he doesn’t want to be here, trade that big lipped motherfvcker. 

I can see why he might think that, coming off injury, it’s a better idea for him to play out the year, hopefully have another MVP caliber season, and then make a mint in free agency.

I mean I’ll hate him for it, but I’ll get it. 

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