Hughes or Kakko

[glenwo2]

From one of the smarter Devils fans over at HF (StevenToddIves) :

 

"So in the end, the WHC solidified Jack Hughes standing as the #1 overall pick in the 2019 draft and solidified Kappo Kakko's standing as the #2 overall pick. There is not an argument in my estimation, nor should there be.

Though these are both outstanding prospects, Hughes' electrifying effect on the pace of a game with precision and immediacy are rare; he pushes back an entire opposition defensively the moment he gets the puck. Hughes was deployed poorly all tournament by a borderline incompetent coach in Jeff Blashill -- this only ended in the Russia game when, due to Dylan Larkin's injury, Blashill saw it fit to give Hughes a consistent shift. A mediocre checking line center like Glendening still received more ice time than Hughes, but at least Hughes was given a shot every four shifts. What was the result? Well, on a team loaded with NHL all-stars, Hughes was the best forward in the game for Team USA and the most dangerous player on the ice for virtually every shift in the final two periods. He dominated the pace of what amounted to an NHL all-star game, and did so in the week of his 18th birthday. Jack Hughes is the #1 player in the 2019 draft.

It is absolutely crucial to note that, despite what some vitriolic fans on the main boards will tell you, this sort of much-deserved praise for Jack Hughes is in no way a slight on Kappo Kakko. Kakko was dominant in the first two games of the tourney, and though he slowed a bit when opposition defenses began keying on him in the later games, he still played well all tournament long. He answered (unfair) questions about his skating and passing, and the fact that opposing defenses seemed to be focusing on stopping him was a compliment in and of itself. Kappo Kakko is the #2 player in the 2019 draft.

Though "recency bias" is usually based on ignorance, it was very important for Kakko to play well. Think about this: if Kakko had not scored those 5 goals in the first two games of the tourney, after Bowen Byram's historic performance in the Memorial Cup Playoffs there would be several fans clamoring for Byram to be the #2 pick despite all the scouting evidence favoring Kakko -- just as there were several fans clamoring for Kakko to be the #1 pick after just two tournament games despite all the scouting evidence favoring Hughes.

In conclusion, the only event we have remaining to judge the players for the 2019 entry draft is the scouting combine. Jack Hughes is still #1, Kappo Kakko is still #2 and, I think we can now say, that Bowen Byram is a clear #3. How everything else shakes out will be a ton of fun to watch, and we can look forward to putting the (invented) Hughes controversy behind us and focus on the how the rest of the 2019 draft will turn out. "

 

>>> So does everyone agree with this?   Hughes is #1, Kakko is #2, and Bowan Byram is a CLEAR #3??

Edited May 29, 2019 by glenwo2

[glenwo2]

3 hours ago, devlman said:

Was it the Elias retirement ceremony where Marty looked like he couldn’t give two sh!ts. I almost expected him to look at his watch.

also bothered me how he never acknowledged Brylin in his HOF speech (again I could be wrong but that’s what I recall)

I never make assumptions on what someone is THINKING based on facial expressions or body language, especially when it came to Marty and Patty. 

To my knowledge (and everyone else's), there has never been a hint of bad blood between Patty and Marty to have an expression as you describe.   

 

I think it was something else he was thinking about.   He's got his own family so maybe it was about that.     

As far as Sarge goes, I'm sure he just forgot accidentally.  I bet he had already said his Thank-You's to Sarge afterward or even before the ceremony anyway.  

[glenwo2]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

[glenwo2]

37 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I would argue that the 3 cups were team efforts more than anything.  In 2000 Marty was great in the finals, but leading up to them he was somewhat shaky.  Likewise I can say we may have a 4th cup up there if it wasn't for Marty in 2001, who was pretty brutal in those finals.  However it is largely moot at that point and I don't want to get into the whole butterfly effect of what would have happened if we did win that cup in 01.

Again, Marty just never endeared himself to me.  He always came off as arrogant and aloof to me and even sometimes nasty when things were not going his way.  It doesn't mean I wish he was never a Devils (like KK), but I am very confident in saying I can easily name 20 Devils right off the top of my head that I just happen to personally like more.  Petr Sykora would definitely be one of them FWIW.

Uhh...you do remember who was on the other side, right?    

 

Patrick Friggin' Roy.  

He was under siege for a good time during the games by NJ.      He just stood on his head. 

 

It's not like Martin Jones was on the other end and everyone is like "Oh my god!  Marty was brutal in losing to a team with Martin Jones in net!". 

Patrick Roy beat Martin Brodeur.     HOF'er beats HOF'er.      

All one can do is shrug his or her shoulders and move on. 

[glenwo2]

[NJDfan1711]

47 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I would argue that the 3 cups were team efforts more than anything. 

Absolutely, I share that opinion as well.  I meant if you had to pick someone that was most responsible for one (or all) of the Cups, I think he's probably the one. But of course a case could be made for a few players. 

[devlman]

39 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

I never make assumptions on what someone is THINKING based on facial expressions or body language, especially when it came to Marty and Patty. 

To my knowledge (and everyone else's), there has never been a hint of bad blood between Patty and Marty to have an expression as you describe.   

 

I think it was something else he was thinking about.   He's got his own family so maybe it was about that.     

As far as Sarge goes, I'm sure he just forgot accidentally.  I bet he had already said his Thank-You's to Sarge afterward or even before the ceremony anyway.  

Oh I’m sure he wasn’t sulking because of any hate. But ffs he should know to at least appear interested.

[glenwo2]

19 minutes ago, devlman said:

Oh I’m sure he wasn’t sulking because of any hate. But ffs he should know to at least appear interested.

To be fair,  how about the times when the Camera wasn't on him  as opposed to that one single unfortunate moment? 

 

One could argue that he WAS interested and was paying attention but we don't know that 'cause the Camera wasn't focused on Marty continuously. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by glenwo2

[glenwo2]

21 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Yeah, no. Brodeur was objectively bad in the 2001 stanley cup finals. Soft goals, poor rebound control. 

Love him to death but if he got injured in the series against the Penguins I think we have a good chance that we won that cup in 01. But if we win the cup in 01 I’m not so sure we win it in 03.

I'm not sure I understand.  

How can not winning a cup one year affect a team's ability to win a cup 2 years later?

For all we know, if the Devils won in 01, they would've won in 03, too. 

But we'll never know 'cause Patrick Roy was Patrick Roy in that series.    He stole it.

 

Oh and btw, you think that if Marty got injured and Scott Clemmensen replaced him that the Devils would've won the Cup in '01?     'Cause THAT'S who Marty had as Backup that year.    lol

Edited May 29, 2019 by glenwo2

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

To be fair,  how about the times when the Camera wasn't on him  as opposed to that one single unfortunate moment? 

 

One could argue that he WAS interested and was paying attention but we don't know that 'cause the Camera wasn't focused on Marty continuously. 

The whole thing was typical internet bullsh!t based on a picture or two and people trying to interpret Marty’s thoughts. 

My daughter just got into an honor society at school. I was very excited and happy for her. I guarantee at some point during the ceremony, you could’ve snapped pictures of me like that too. 

[Jerzey]

Between Finnish people and Rags fans I’ve been banned from multiple threads on HF. This draft might get me banned from HF altogether.

[MadDog2020]

45 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

I'm not sure I understand.  

How can not winning a cup one year affect a team's ability to win a cup 2 years later?

For all we know, if the Devils won in 01, they would've won in 03, too. 

But we'll never know 'cause Patrick Roy was Patrick Roy in that series.    He stole it.

 

Oh and btw, you think that if Marty got injured and Scott Clemmensen replaced him that the Devils would've won the Cup in '01?     'Cause THAT'S who Marty had as Backup that year.    lol

Nope. That was John Vanbiesbrouck.

Edited May 29, 2019 by MadDog2020

[glenwo2]

3 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Nope. That was John Vanbiesbrouck.

EVEN BETTER! 

(btw, I looked it up and did see beezer's name there but Clemmer was there, too so I was a bit confused)

Edited May 29, 2019 by glenwo2

[NJDfan1711]

16 minutes ago, Jerzey said:

Between Finnish people and Rags fans I’ve been banned from multiple threads on HF. This draft might get me banned from HF altogether.

Addition by subtraction.

[glenwo2]

51 minutes ago, Jerzey said:

Between Finnish people and Rags fans I’ve been banned from multiple threads on HF. This draft might get me banned from HF altogether.

At least you'd have a great place to call home here. 

I have to wait until friggin' June 10 to be able to post over there again all because of a stupid reason that should never have happened (which I won't get into here). 

Anyway, I can't wait for this draft so we can select Hughes and then focus on our other draft picks.  

Edited May 29, 2019 by glenwo2

[Lateralous]

1 hour ago, glenwo2 said:

I'm not sure I understand.  

How can not winning a cup one year affect a team's ability to win a cup 2 years later?

For all we know, if the Devils won in 01, they would've won in 03, too. 

But we'll never know 'cause Patrick Roy was Patrick Roy in that series.    He stole it.

 

Oh and btw, you think that if Marty got injured and Scott Clemmensen replaced him that the Devils would've won the Cup in '01?     'Cause THAT'S who Marty had as Backup that year.    lol

I know it was two big names but the goaltending was pretty bad in that series.  Patrick Roy was marginal up until game 6.   He absolutely blew game 4 with a puck handling gaffe and then got shelled in game 5.   He was all set to be the goat until Marty one upped him in Game 6.   If we even got decent goaltending in the finals, the Devils win two cups in a row.   

[Guadana]

2 hours ago, glenwo2 said:

you must find a woman who will be looking at you like shero looks at jack

Edited May 29, 2019 by Guadana

[glenwo2]

1 minute ago, Guadana said:

you must find a woman who will look at you like shero looks at jack

Whoa!   lol.

[Nicomo]

6 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm not even so sure he was the best of his era...Hasek was a better puck-stopper, Roy was a bit more clutch (in spite of the fact that he was a bit of a loon and a little too tightly wound at time) and still had something left in the tank when he called it quits.  I've always considered Marty among the best of all time though.  I think those GOAT arguments are really hard to make definitively. 

As for Marty the person, in his book he does seem to acknowledge that he has some flaws and even called himself a model idiot at one point.  I'm not saying that I can't see why some people don't find him to be some swell guy, but more that I'm surprised that even to this day, the full package is as polarizing as it seems to be, given everything.  So many other franchises would've killed for a goalie like him...I'm not knocking our fanbase, but I guess I wonder if some others would have been more "forgiving"? 

Maybe not, but he’s the only one the league completely changed the rules over. It you’re picking one of the three for one game seven I can see a strong case being made for the other two ahead of Marty, but if I’m starting a team from scratch knowing what we know about their careers give me Marty all day. The longevity/durability, the workload he could handle, the even keeled personality (compared to most goalies), the puck handling, etc. 

It’s really hard for me to pick a single favorite Devil, Stevens was the reason I started following them in the first place so he’ll always be way up there, and Elias embodied everything great about the Devils identity for all those years and is just extremely likable (and underrated outside NJ fans), but if I absolutely had to pick a single favorite it would probably be Marty. Idk about GOAT as far as goalies go, but he’s the GOAT Devil, imo. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

6 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Maybe not, but he’s the only one the league completely changed the rules over. It you’re picking one of the three for one game seven I can see a strong case being made for the other two ahead of Marty, but if I’m starting a team from scratch knowing what we know about their careers give me Marty all day. The longevity/durability, the workload he could handle, the even keeled personality (compared to most goalies), the puck handling, etc. 

It’s really hard for me to pick a single favorite Devil, Stevens was the reason I started following them in the first place so he’ll always be way up there, and Elias embodied everything great about the Devils identity for all those years and is just extremely likable (and underrated outside NJ fans), but if I absolutely had to pick a single favorite it would probably be Marty. Idk about GOAT as far as goalies go, but he’s the GOAT Devil, imo. 

Sure, he gets major kudos for being a phenomenal puck-handler.  Thing is the other two were quite durable as well...Roy also started over 1000 games, and Hasek’s career got off to a late start. But not like you’re ever going wrong with any of ‘em...and it’s also not I would’ve rather have had either of the other two over Marty.  All are among the all-time greats...the fact that Marty is firmly in the conversation is plenty good enough for me.  

And yeah, Marty’s the GOAT of the Devils.  Not debatable, really.  

Would LOOOOOOOOVE for Hughes one day to unseat Elias as the greatest Devils forward of all time...I can (prematurely) dream...

[MadDog2020]

 

[Nicomo]

31 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

Man I’m already sick of hearing about his size. I hope he comes in with a chip on his shoulder and instantly quiets all the doubters. 

Also, suggesting RNH came into the league too early is silly. He had 52 points in 62 GP his rookie season. He was obviously ready. 

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Man I’m already sick of hearing about his size. I hope he comes in with a chip on his shoulder and instantly quiets all the doubters. 

Also, suggesting RNH came into the league too early is silly. He had 52 points in 62 GP his rookie season. He was obviously ready. 

I’m sick of hearing about him in general, honestly. Can’t we just draft him now?

[MadDog2020]

 

[SterioDesign]

27 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I said “not so sure” because I don’t know. It’s literally right there in that quote. 

But if the Devils are fresh off back to back Cups, I’m not sure Lou is so quick to trade away two alternate captains (McKay and Arnott) for two ENORMOUS parts of the 2003 cup (Niewuendyk and Langenbrunner). Honestly, who knows — but a butterfly flaps its wings. 

And again - for all the amazing things he did for the Devils, Brodeur lost that series way more than Roy “stole” it. In the 4 Devils losses, Brodeur gave up: 5 goals on 30 shots, 3 goals on 21 shots, 4 goals on 18 shots, and 3 goals on 22 shots. Some of those shots were not particularly difficult, and some of those goals were completely devastating. I don’t know how Beezer would’ve done, but I can guess he’d likely be better than a sub-.900 save percentage in the Stanley Cup Finals. 

that was the thing with Marty at times... he'd stop pucks that no one else in the world would have stopped... but then he'd let in a shot that just about any goalie playing professional hockey would stop routinely lol