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Hughes or Kakko


Jerzey

Hughes or Kakko?  

96 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should Shero pick?



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17 hours ago, glenwo2 said:

That would be quite the limb.     

I would not be happy at all that we gave up on Hughes just 'cause Kakko had a scoring hot streak, though.

I would hope that Shero is not that short-sighted.

You're continuing to point to a tournament hot streak which  is weak.  The kid is a player and a dominant one.  Hughes is a well.  The separation you're creating between the two is hard to justify.  It will probably be years (barring injuries) before they can be judged compared to each other fairly.  Kakko didn't just pop up out of nowhere I'm not sure why that's so hard to accept or acknowledge.

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1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

And once again, fans with knee-jerk reactions aren’t in charge for a reason. You don’t overreact to one tournament. You look at the whole body of work.

Can you steal a time machine and go tell that to Dave Gettleman before that douche wastes a first on a 2nd rounder?

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6 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i'm just really glad I dont know many Rangers fans so other than online i'll be shielded from all that inevitable "Kakko is better" over the next decades

Here’s the thing about those tools: if, by some shock, we took Kakko instead, the narrative would turn on an absolute dime. All of the sudden, Rag fans will be pumping Hughes up as the next Joe Sakic. That’s a given.

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42 minutes ago, titans04 said:

You're continuing to point to a tournament hot streak which  is weak.  The kid is a player and a dominant one.  Hughes is a well.  The separation you're creating between the two is hard to justify.  It will probably be years (barring injuries) before they can be judged compared to each other fairly.  Kakko didn't just pop up out of nowhere I'm not sure why that's so hard to accept or acknowledge.

 

Excuse me but as a fellow Devils fan, why should I have to justify anything to you?  :glare:

But if I must then here it is :   "I don't want Kakko because Hughes is better."

That's my "justification".  🤨

Now kindly dial back the condescension, okay?     Thanks.  :thumbsup:

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29 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

 

Excuse me but as a fellow Devils fan, why should I have to justify anything to you?  :glare:

But if I must then here it is :   "I don't want Kakko because Hughes is better."

That's my "justification".  🤨

Now kindly dial back the condescension, okay?     Thanks.  :thumbsup:

He didn't ask you to justify anything he told you some of your arguments were weak in his opinion.

In your short time here you've shown and admitted that you're willingly really biased towards Devils players and literally said that you don't care and don't try to get informed on players not playing (or about to play) for the Devils. And that shows in many of your arguments. Nothing wrong there but when you make some comments online expect people to react.

So when you go and make statements like you've been doing, biased arguments towards wtv benefits the devils more or making it sound like Kakko is borderline one dimensional and that Hughes is THAT much better when they are still pretty close simply doesn't hold much water cause we know you didn't look that much into Kakko and any of your arguments are filtered through a "hughes is better" lense. I mean you had to be told that Dahlin was obviously better than Smith... that should put things in perspective. And if nobody corrected you here you'd still believe it

 

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32 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

 

Excuse me but as a fellow Devils fan, why should I have to justify anything to you?  :glare:

But if I must then here it is :   "I don't want Kakko because Hughes is better."

That's my "justification".  🤨

Now kindly dial back the condescension, okay?     Thanks.  :thumbsup:

Not trying to get involved in your quarrel...but what does being a fellow Devils fan have anything to do with it? If you state a position on a discussion board you should be able to back it up. Otherwise it isn't a discussion. It is just you saying sh!t. 

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24 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Not trying to get involved in your quarrel...but what does being a fellow Devils fan have anything to do with it? If you state a position on a discussion board you should be able to back it up. Otherwise it isn't a discussion. It is just you saying sh!t. 

Has nothing to do with it as I was simply stating that I was a fellow Devils fan like him.   There was no hidden meaning or allusion there to anything.  :noclue:

And stating my opinion on whom I want as the #1 pick is not me saying shiznit.    C'mon now..

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29 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

He didn't ask you to justify anything he told you some of your arguments were weak in his opinion.

In your short time here you've shown and admitted that you're willingly really biased towards Devils players and literally said that you don't care and don't try to get informed on players not playing (or about to play) for the Devils. And that shows in many of your arguments. Nothing wrong there but when you make some comments online expect people to react.

So when you go and make statements like you've been doing, biased arguments towards wtv benefits the devils more or making it sound like Kakko is borderline one dimensional and that Hughes is THAT much better when they are still pretty close simply doesn't hold much water cause we know you didn't look that much into Kakko and any of your arguments are filtered through a "hughes is better" lense. I mean you had to be told that Dahlin was obviously better than Smith... that should put things in perspective. And if nobody corrected you here you'd still believe it

 

"...when they are still pretty close..."

This is also an opinion, I believe.  

The old "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing, you know?

 

Btw, why are you bringing up a past argument where you misunderstood what I told you and were called out on it?

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13 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

This is also an opinion, I believe.  

The old "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing, you know?

Well it's fair to bring up that reasons that makes Hughes ranked higher is because of what he did playing against kids and comparing it with what other established players did at the same age against similar competition etc. Every player is different. I have no doubt he will adjust but that's still something that nobody knows yet cause he simply hasn't done it yet. He still has to prove that he can produce just as much against a faster, stronger and more skilled competition. That's something Kakko already did. (all season and in this tournament... he's not just on a streak. he did it all year and outproduced guys like Laine, Rantanen etc etc at the same age and against the same competition)

So even scouts who knows better than all of us have to just "assume" and make an educated guess that Hughes WILL adjust.

If we're truly honest and taking off our blinders. If Hughes was projected #2 and Kakko #1. That it's fair or not some would be pointing out that he didn't win gold with the U18 and failed his shootout attempt really bad, so that he didn't deliver when it really mattered. And didn't produce as much as "our Kakko" when they were facing toughest competition for the first time in their lives. I'm not saying that's what i believe but it's factual to some extend if you want to see it that way.

For the record i'm still picking Hughes. But i really wish he would have shown more against a weak France team. There's still time and he played quite a bit of hockey and travelled a lot lately. 

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Well it's fair to bring up that reasons that makes Hughes ranked higher is because of what he did playing against kids and comparing it with what other established players did at the same age against similar competition etc. Every player is different. I have no doubt he will adjust but that's still something that nobody knows yet cause he simply hasn't done it yet. He still has to prove that he can produce just as much against a faster, stronger and more skilled competition. That's something Kakko already did.

So even scouts who knows better than all of us have to just "assume" and make an educated guess that Hughes WILL adjust.

If we're truly honest and taking off our blinders. If Hughes was projected #2 and Kakko #1. That it's fair or not some would be pointing out that he didn't win gold with the U18 and failed his shootout attempt really bad, so that he didn't deliver when it really mattered. And didn't produce as much as "our Kakko" when they were facing toughest competition for the first time in their lives. I'm not saying that's what i believe but it's factual to some extend if you want to see it that way.

For the record i'm still picking Hughes. But i really wish he would have shown more against a weak France team. There's still time and he played quite a bit of hockey and travelled a lot lately. 

Ditto.    I think I'm beginning to understand the "worth nothing" argument you brought up earlier.    If he had scored at least a goal, there wouldn't be an ugly goose-egg in his stats afterward.  

We can't even point to his Plus-Minus (0) as a positive 'cause other players had +2's and the like.

 

Maybe he should start being a bit more selfish and shoot the puck?     What do you think?

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25 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Ditto.    I think I'm beginning to understand the "worth nothing" argument you brought up earlier.    If he had scored at least a goal, there wouldn't be an ugly goose-egg in his stats afterward.  

We can't even point to his Plus-Minus (0) as a positive 'cause other players had +2's and the like.

 

Maybe he should start being a bit more selfish and shoot the puck?     What do you think?

It has nothing to do with him scoring or not in the game. He was on the ice for a few goals, one where he won the faceoff which is excellent. But other than that i don't find he was part of many dangerous plays. He's gliding a lot on the outside i find and i'd like to see him more engaged physically to see if he can handle it. He's obviously still adjusting. 

I brought up the "worth nothing" argument cause you were basically making a black and white statement that a scorer is useless if he's not scoring. It's not like the difference between a scorers and a playmakers is that cut and dry. Not all scorers are one dimensional beings not doing anything else if they are not scoring and that all playmakers were only contributing positively. Many scorers are winning battles along the boards, driving plays, giving room to other players cause they have to respect them and take away their space etc. also it's not like playmakers are not scoring and that scorers are not making plays. It's really really not as black and white. 

All of that being said during one play. If a playmaker fail to deliver to a scorer or that a scorer doesnt convert on a great pass. The actual value of that play is worth nothing. That's my only point. You need both to connect in order to have a value. And again, a playmaker can score just as much and a scorer can make great passes too. 

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6 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

It has nothing to do with him scoring or not in the game. He was on the ice for a few goals, one where he won the faceoff which is excellent. But other than that i don't find he was part of many dangerous plays. He's gliding a lot on the outside i find and i'd like to see him more engaged physically to see if he can handle it. He's obviously still adjusting. 

I brought up the "worth nothing" argument cause you were basically making a black and white statement that a scorer is useless if he's not scoring. It's not like the difference between a scorers and a playmakers is that cut and dry. Not all scorers are one dimensional beings not doing anything else if they are not scoring and that all playmakers were only contributing positively. Many scorers are winning battles along the boards, driving plays, giving room to other players cause they have to respect them and take away their space etc. also it's not like playmakers are not scoring and that scorers are not making plays. It's really really not as black and white. 

All of that being said during one play. If a playmaker fail to deliver to a scorer or that a scorer doesnt convert on a great pass. The actual value of that play is worth nothing. That's my only point. You need both to connect in order to have a value. 

Fair enough.

 

Now what would you like to see from Hughes going forward?    I know you said you want to see him be more engaged physically but let's remember that he still has the body of a 17 year old going up against much bigger players so he risks injury there.  

 

Or is that the point?   To see whether he's injury-prone or not?

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9 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Fair enough.

Now what would you like to see from Hughes going forward?    I know you said you want to see him be more engaged physically but let's remember that he still has the body of a 17 year old going up against much bigger players so he risks injury there.  

Well to be fair i don't need to see anything i'm not the one making the pick lol. I'm going to fully trust Shero and Paul.

I'd just like him to show a few things that would confirm what scouts are "projecting" so that we're not going on projections as much. Again, Kakko is straight up showing "i can do this" while Hughes still has to grow and prove it.

Winning faceoffs against stronger opponents, winning physical battles against the boards, taking hits, establishing his position in front of the nets with beasts on his back, using his IQ to its full potential cause he's playing with smart players too, etc etc He's also just average defensively apparently and that was against kids so i'd like to see how he's handling that at the next level.

And for the love of god dont take any of this like im bashing Hughes. I'm just trying to be neutral and realistic

Edited by SterioDesign
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19 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well to be fair i don't need to see anything i'm not the one making the pick lol. I'm going to fully trust Shero and Paul.

I'd just like him to show a few things that would confirm what scouts are "projecting" so that we're not going on projections as much. Again, Kakko is straight up showing "i can do this" while Hughes still has to grow and prove it.

Winning faceoffs against stronger opponents, winning physical battles against the boards, taking hits, establishing his position in front of the nets with beasts on his back, using his IQ to its full potential cause he's playing with smart players too, etc etc He's also just average defensively apparently and that was against kids so i'd like to see how he's handling that at the next level.

And for the love of god dont take any of this like im bashing Hughes. I'm just trying to be neutral and realistic

I'm not.  (at least not anymore)

 

But if there is any weakness to his game at this moment, it's face-offs without a doubt.

 

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19 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Well to be fair i don't need to see anything i'm not the one making the pick lol. I'm going to fully trust Shero and Paul.

I'd just like him to show a few things that would confirm what scouts are "projecting" so that we're not going on projections as much. Again, Kakko is straight up showing "i can do this" while Hughes still has to grow and prove it.

Winning faceoffs against stronger opponents, winning physical battles against the boards, taking hits, establishing his position in front of the nets with beasts on his back, using his IQ to its full potential cause he's playing with smart players too, etc etc He's also just average defensively apparently and that was against kids so i'd like to see how he's handling that at the next level.

And for the love of god dont take any of this like im bashing Hughes. I'm just trying to be neutral and realistic

The bolded is where I am...so much so that I'm not going to get upset if Shero winds up picking Kakko over Hughes (though I've been leaning towards Hughes, and will be fine if Shero goes the "predictable" route as well).  I'm going to assume that Shero and Co did more than enough homework that whatever pick they make, they'll have done it for 100% the right reasons.     

Of course, the good news is that it's looking more and more like you can't really go wrong with either one of these guys.   

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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15 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Of course, the good news is that it's looking more and more like you can't really go wrong with either one of the these guys.   

That's essentially how I feel at this point and the way I'm trying to look at it.  I don't mind discussing it and giving us all something to talk about for the next month or so, but I'm not going to get all worked up over either guy one way or the other, because I think we're going to get a pretty world-class player regardless.  

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Hughes doesn't have to score.

His teammates have to CONVERT on his Passes and not flub those chances.

That's what his game is :   Playmaking.

Would it be nice for him to score a goal or two in the process?  Hell yeah! 

But that's not really his game, imo.  

Edited by glenwo2
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17 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Hughes doesn't have to score.

His teammates have to CONVERT on his Passes and not flub those chances.

That's what his game is :   Playmaking.

Would it be nice for him to score a goal or two in the process?  Hell yeah! 

But that's not really his game, imo.  

lol you see things wayyyyy too black and white. It's not like playmakers can only makes passes lol Hughes is a really good scorer and he has to show that he can control the play

Anything he does that can show what he can do at that level is good. 

On the other hand, Schneider's game is to stop pucks... that's black and white and he's not doing too well today

Edited by SterioDesign
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11 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

lol you see things wayyyyy too black and white. It's not like playmakers can only makes passes lol Hughes is a really good scorer and he has to show that he can control the play

Anything he does that can show what he can do at that level is good. 

I'm just saying I'm not going to get all bent out of shape if he doesn't score so long as he continues to make teammates around him better.    :)

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