Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Jerzey

Hughes or Kakko

Hughes or Kakko?  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should Shero pick?



Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

It's inconceivable this would happen. The dropoff from 2 to 3 is huge as we stand now. There's no way the Rangers are trading down from an 18 year old (he was 17 for most of the season) who finished 6th in goals in the Finnish Elite League to a player who has questionable commitments to leaving Russia right away. They draft Kakko they get a player who becomes immediately impactful for them and who most likely will be a 40 goal scorer sooner rather than later.

The Russian Hockey federation can be difficult to deal with.  Good luck to the team that drafts him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/13/2019 at 5:01 PM, Neb00rs said:

It's inconceivable this would happen. The dropoff from 2 to 3 is huge as we stand now. There's no way the Rangers are trading down from an 18 year old (he was 17 for most of the season) who finished 6th in goals in the Finnish Elite League to a player who has questionable commitments to leaving Russia right away. They draft Kakko they get a player who becomes immediately impactful for them and who most likely will be a 40 goal scorer sooner rather than later.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2004e.html

Agreed.  This is the 2004 draft all over again. There was nothing Chicago or Carolina could offer to Pitt or Washington to get them to trade down from Ovechkin and Malkin.  Not saying these guys are as talented as either, but the drop-off is similar.  Here is the draft results from that year for those who are not familiar:  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Matteau#32 said:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2004e.html

Agreed.  This is the 2004 draft all over again. There was nothing Chicago or Carolina could offer to Pitt or Washington to get them to trade down from Ovechkin and Malkin.  Not saying these guys are as talented as either, but the drop-off is similar.  Here is the draft results from that year for those who are not familiar:  

Washington made out pretty well that draft. They got Green too and he killed it early in his career. 

I'm happy with NJs selection... But I'm a Zajac fanBoi. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Holy sh!t Schneider was drafted all the way back in 04?? :o

You could've told me 2009 and I'd have believed it. I always forget how old he is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Holy sh!t Schneider was drafted all the way back in 04?? :o

Hard to believe he's been in the league 15 years, but he's 33...guy probably has 5 years left in him or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Hard to believe he's been in the league 15 years, but he's 33...guy probably has 5 years left in him or so.

Well, his first year in "the league" was 2008-09...he did 3 years in college and spent some time on the farm after being drafted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Hard to believe he's been in the league 15 years, but he's 33...guy probably has 5 years left in him or so.

not too bad since about 2 months ago we all thought he didnt have a day left in him

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

not too bad since about 2 months ago we all thought he didnt have a day left in him

Agreed.  I'm reserving my judgement and expectations until the start of next season, because the end of this season was too small of a sample size for me to really say "he's back", but from what we did see it certainly left some positive feelings and a reason to be hopeful.  A summer off and a fresh start may be just what he needs to put together a sustained and strong season next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Agreed.  I'm reserving my judgement and expectations until the start of next season, because the end of this season was too small of a sample size for me to really say "he's back", but from what we did see it certainly left some positive feelings and a reason to be hopeful.  A summer off and a fresh start may be just what he needs to put together a sustained and strong season next year. 

what i'll say is a bit ridiculous but... If we look at Schneider's time in NJ... it's like he's always been very good when the team is a lost cause and not really playing for anything... and then really mediocre or bad when the team is actually playing for something... 

I mean it's probably a coincidence. But some may think that he's simply not doing well when he's not feeling the pressure of big meaningful games. Cause he's always been solid as a backup or backing a team playing for nothing lol Not saying i believe that but it wouldnt be the most unfair theory out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

what i'll say is a bit ridiculous but... If we look at Schneider's time in NJ... it's like he's always been very good when the team is a lost cause and not really playing for anything... and then really mediocre or bad when the team is actually playing for something... 

I mean it's probably a coincidence. But some may think that he's simply not doing well when he's not feeling the pressure of big meaningful games. Cause he's always been solid as a backup or backing a team playing for nothing lol Not saying i believe that but it wouldnt be the most unfair theory out there.

We’ve only been “playing for something” one time since he’s been here, and he was injured at the time. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So it's been over a week now.. and I still almost don't believe it.

Like I'm waiting for the NHL to be like "lol whoops we goofed, 1st OA actually goes to the Avs lolsry"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was an Athletic article written about what Vancouver could possibly offer up to move up to our pick and the writer threw a segment of it to Twitter, every single offer I saw on there didn't even come close to something I would even consider for a moment: https://theathletic.com/928081/2019/04/16/what-the-canucks-would-have-to-do-to-trade-up-for-jack-hughes-and-the-player-few-in-vancouver-want-to-see-in-the-deal/ (if you have an Athletic sub)

The best offer was probably along the lines of 10th Overall, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, Virtanen, Juolevi, Hutton, Markstrom, and Eriksson for 1st, Schneider, Greene, and a 4th, even that though you're getting a massive handful of maybes for an almost guaranteed star in Hughes.

The worst was 10th, Gaudette, Markstrom, Virtanen for 1st, Schneider, Zajac, just so bad. Even that though was only slightly worse than most of what's in that Twitter segment. My god it reminds me of when people thought we could package Gelinas and a 3rd for anything we wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also if you have an Athletic sub, this is probably the best read on Hughes written by Corey Pronman. There's plenty of video in there that highlights how good of a skater he is and how creative he is, feel like it's hard not to be sold on him after this article:

https://theathletic.com/898571/2019/04/08/pronman-why-jack-hughes-is-an-elite-nhl-prospect/

To be fair, he also wrote an accompanying article on Kakko, but based on what I like in a player, it's impossible for me to pass on Hughes

https://theathletic.com/902206/2019/04/08/pronman-why-kaapo-kakko-could-be-considered-with-the-no-1-pick-in-the-nhl-draft/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

There was an Athletic article written about what Vancouver could possibly offer up to move up to our pick and the writer threw a segment of it to Twitter, every single offer I saw on there didn't even come close to something I would even consider for a moment: https://theathletic.com/928081/2019/04/16/what-the-canucks-would-have-to-do-to-trade-up-for-jack-hughes-and-the-player-few-in-vancouver-want-to-see-in-the-deal/ (if you have an Athletic sub)

The best offer was probably along the lines of 10th Overall, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, Virtanen, Juolevi, Hutton, Markstrom, and Eriksson for 1st, Schneider, Greene, and a 4th, even that though you're getting a massive handful of maybes for an almost guaranteed star in Hughes.

The worst was 10th, Gaudette, Markstrom, Virtanen for 1st, Schneider, Zajac, just so bad. Even that though was only slightly worse than most of what's in that Twitter segment. My god it reminds me of when people thought we could package Gelinas and a 3rd for anything we wanted.

I just got finished reading this article as well. Pretty mind blowing stuff considering Virtanen scored all of 25 points this year. If Vancouver was really serious about uniting the Hughes brothers (and setting up another Sedin situation - which I think is fine) Pettersson needs to be included for the deal to go anywhere. Interestingly enough, I didn't see a single mention of his name coming to NJ in those mock trades. Normally the Athletic has awesome content, but these deals are a non starter without EP.

Edited by NLinfante
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Pettersson, no deal. And that has to be a part of the deal, not the whole thing. 1st + one or two other GOOD pieces.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

what i'll say is a bit ridiculous but... If we look at Schneider's time in NJ... it's like he's always been very good when the team is a lost cause and not really playing for anything... and then really mediocre or bad when the team is actually playing for something... 

I mean it's probably a coincidence. But some may think that he's simply not doing well when he's not feeling the pressure of big meaningful games. Cause he's always been solid as a backup or backing a team playing for nothing lol Not saying i believe that but it wouldnt be the most unfair theory out there.

let us remember that the guy was playing hurt dude, and then after he came back from surgery is when he was having issues finding his game. The only time during his tenure here when the devils were even some what relevant was last season.. the devils have sucked during his entire run with us this far. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

There was an Athletic article written about what Vancouver could possibly offer up to move up to our pick and the writer threw a segment of it to Twitter, every single offer I saw on there didn't even come close to something I would even consider for a moment: https://theathletic.com/928081/2019/04/16/what-the-canucks-would-have-to-do-to-trade-up-for-jack-hughes-and-the-player-few-in-vancouver-want-to-see-in-the-deal/ (if you have an Athletic sub)

The best offer was probably along the lines of 10th Overall, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, Virtanen, Juolevi, Hutton, Markstrom, and Eriksson for 1st, Schneider, Greene, and a 4th, even that though you're getting a massive handful of maybes for an almost guaranteed star in Hughes.

The worst was 10th, Gaudette, Markstrom, Virtanen for 1st, Schneider, Zajac, just so bad. Even that though was only slightly worse than most of what's in that Twitter segment. My god it reminds me of when people thought we could package Gelinas and a 3rd for anything we wanted.

 

Maybe this guy writes better stuff, but the whole article is an absolute mess.  He talks to NHL people that say in order to move from 10 to 1 in this draft you need a Lindros like trade package.  Other NHL people then say it just won't happen under any circumstances.  Then he goes full Leroy Jenkins giving credence to the views of Canucks fans that think they can trade a bunch of chicken sh!t for chicken salad. 

Translated, the best offer from Canucks fans to switch from ten to one, is a first round and second round pick next year, two draft busts (one of whom may not play more than 100 games in the NHL and who all of their fans scream at their scouts for drafting) third pairing defenseman in Hutton, one of the worst free agent signing in recent memory that they're dying to get rid of in Erickson, and a goalie who is probably not as good as either of the ones we have. 

This seems to be a thing with Canucks fans more than any other fanbase.  If you make the mistake I do and dive into the sewer that is the HF Boards trade proposal board, up until last year's trade deadline, you had Canucks fans who seemed to have thought that Chris Tanev was one of the top ten defenseman in the league. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

So it's been over a week now.. and I still almost don't believe it.

Like I'm waiting for the NHL to be like "lol whoops we goofed, 1st OA actually goes to the Avs lolsry"

And it's this popping like "No no there was a fvckup!" like at the Oscars with the LaLaLand / Moonlight fiasco lol

1944515775_ScreenShot2019-04-17at1_33_27PM.png.7c432ba6401262f5433345e2e37ea505.png

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, CommonDreads said:

There was an Athletic article written about what Vancouver could possibly offer up to move up to our pick and the writer threw a segment of it to Twitter, every single offer I saw on there didn't even come close to something I would even consider for a moment: https://theathletic.com/928081/2019/04/16/what-the-canucks-would-have-to-do-to-trade-up-for-jack-hughes-and-the-player-few-in-vancouver-want-to-see-in-the-deal/ (if you have an Athletic sub)

The best offer was probably along the lines of 10th Overall, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, Virtanen, Juolevi, Hutton, Markstrom, and Eriksson for 1st, Schneider, Greene, and a 4th, even that though you're getting a massive handful of maybes for an almost guaranteed star in Hughes.

The worst was 10th, Gaudette, Markstrom, Virtanen for 1st, Schneider, Zajac, just so bad. Even that though was only slightly worse than most of what's in that Twitter segment. My god it reminds me of when people thought we could package Gelinas and a 3rd for anything we wanted.

I read this last night & thought it was a joke. The first half was interesting in a shock-value kind of way - HOT take: 

The Canucks have checked in with the New Jersey Devils to see what it would cost to move up from 10th overall to the No. 1 pick and to find out if that’s even possible.

But they’ve also reached out to the New York Rangers to get a feel for what it would take if Kaapo Kakko is New Jersey’s choice and Hughes falls to the second slot in the draft. The Devils haven’t given any indication they would go that way, but there are definitely NHL teams that right now have Kakko ranked ahead of Hughes.

Asking league sources to get an idea of the package required to make a team think about trading down from the top two picks, it’s clear people in the NHL have a different perspective of Hughes’ worth than many fans, especially in Vancouver.

“It would take a Lindros package,” one said. 

+++

This is how another NHL person put it:

“Three or four firsts. Four seconds and Vancouver takes back Marc Staal and Brendan Smith (who have a combined cap hit of roughly $10 million for the next two seasons).

“That’s a broad outline. It’s the same as trading for Elias Pettersson or Auston Matthews, really.”

That’s some outline. And there was another possible outline including both Bo Horvat and Troy Stecher.

It would be this year’s first, a 2020 unprotected first, two second-round picks, Horvat, Stecher and one more player and take back all that cap space.

With the picks and cap space in either scenario, the Rangers could trade back into the top 10, get two players in the first 10 picks and then go out and sign, say, Erik Karlsson and Artemi Panarin to get their new faces of the franchise.

Maybe the Canucks get Jack Hughes, but they also would likely be setting up a dynasty for their 1994 Stanley Cup final rival.

 

So, if this was in any way true, we'd be Stupid to take Kakko and let the Rangers have the option to get Hughes. 

And the second half - fan tweets about trade proposals - was lazy journalism.  I expect better from The Athletic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“but there are definitely NHL teams that right now have Kakko ranked ahead of Hughes”

I’m not sure I really buy that. What GM is going to want to be the guy who passed on Hughes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.