2019 Offseason Thread

[NJDfan1711]

11 minutes ago, vadvlfan said:

Many italians love escrow (in soups etc.) pronounced "schkrarrole" (I know, that was really bad)

I always thought scharrole was money? 

[MadDog2020]

11 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

As the salary cap keeps going up, and more specifically the max individual player salary per year, so too will contracts for players who you might consider "average", like Skinner.  Personally, I think he's above average, but that's beside the point.  I'll never forget when, just a year or two ago, in one of the threads on here we were discussing salary caps and salaries, and I thought the max player salary per year was still like 8-9M or something like that, and someone informed me that it was actually like 13 or 14 at the time.  I couldn't believe it.  But, with that in mind, I always look at it this way:  whatever the max annual salary is per player (I actually don't know what it is at the moment, but let's say it's $15M/yr), then I try to envision a scale, with 1M being the lowest a player can be paid (I know it's lower than that), and $15M being the highest someone can be paid.  Simple math would state that the median number there would be 7.5, which you would assume an "average" NHL player would make.  Now, regardless of how you feel about Skinner as a player (as mentioned, I personally considered him to be slightly above average), even if you do consider him merely average, 8.5/9.5 isn't really that much more than 7.5.  

I know that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it, but I think it applies and makes sense (to me at least)  

I couldn’t care less about the cap going up. Jeff Skinner isn’t worth that kind of money or term. Better Buffalo than us.

[mfitz804]

8 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I always thought scharrole was money? 

It’s both. Some of you guys are from another planet. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by mfitz804

[NJDfan1711]

 

20 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not sure what the % is now for the escrow, but the latest figure I have is from 2015 where 15% of the players salary is escrowed.  That year the players got a little over 2% back.

I believe the thought is that both the players and owners should have skin in the game in terms of the health of the league.  This agreement is in the CBA and both sides agreed to it, so players are well aware that whatever contract they signed they will have to give/have withheld a decent portion towards the escrow. 

Here is a good graphic with how much of the player loses when he is paid:

Interesting.  I knew the stuff about taxes, federal and state of course, and obviously the agent is going to get a commission, but just didn't know there was an escrow portion too.  I suppose it's not crazy to think that the players and owners should share responsibility for the health of the league, and with that being the case I do think 50/50 split is the way to go, but I still don't see why you can't just keep the two separate like I had mentioned - players make X and are entitled to X, owners receive Y and are entitled to Y.  I imagine at some point there was a disparity between the two, most likely from the team's perspective where they were paying high salaries and had a high cap figure each year, but weren't bringing in much money, but you'd have to think if you're paying player John Doe (and maybe several others) a high annual salary, that he and those other teammates are worth that salary, and would probably attract viewers, whereby adding to your revenue, so it all evens out.  Unless of course you're just a moron GM and made bad signings, which can and does happen a lot we know, but in that regard that's your own fault, and I feel like the owners/GMs should eat that responsibility.  Why should I as a player share my salary when that's what you agreed to pay me?  I realize this is very much a capitalistic point of view, but that's business for ya, so I don't see an issue with it.

[mfitz804]

He only puts $18k in his 401k annually?? That seems unwise.

EDIT: Current maximum is $19,000, I’m sure it was $18k at the time. That sucks, guys making that much should be able to do more. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by mfitz804

[NJDfan1711]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

He only puts $18k in his 401k annually?? That seems unwise. 

Pretty sure that's the max.

 

EDIT:  Looked it up, it is.  $18,500, actually.

Edited May 30, 2019 by NJDfan1711

[mfitz804]

Yup, I thought it would be significantly higher. 

Sucks for him, but I guess he makes enough to not need the tax benefits anyway. 

[DevsMan84]

4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

He only puts $18k in his 401k annually?? That seems unwise.

EDIT: Current maximum is $19,000, I’m sure it was $18k at the time. That sucks, guys making that much should be able to do more. 

I was looking at that and thought that I am not too far off from me(though I probably put more in that I need to).  However, I also forgot there was a max so that makes sense.

[DevsMan84]

Unless I am ill-informed, but isn't the top tax bracket these days for Federal 37% instead of 39.6%?  I could be wrong.

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

I was looking at that and thought that I am not too far off from me(though I probably put more in that I need to).  However, I also forgot there was a max so that makes sense.

I guess, in theory, when we retire we’ll all be on the same level and need the same amount of money to “live” on.

Except that he’ll retire when he’s like my age, and I’ll have to work forever lol. 

[NJDfan1711]

13 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I couldn’t care less about the cap going up. Jeff Skinner isn’t worth that kind of money or term. Better Buffalo than us.

I can see that lol, but it you can't ignore.  It's facts.  If Skinner is an average player in your eyes, then he's going to get an average contract.  8.5M, as it stands today, is close to average.  Crazy as it sounds, but it's true.  We're still a far ways away from baseball and football, but hockey is starting to get a bit high in terms of salaries.  

[MadDog2020]

5 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I can see that lol, but it you can't ignore.  It's facts.  If Skinner is an average player in your eyes, then he's going to get an average contract.  8.5M, as it stands today, is close to average.  Crazy as it sounds, but it's true.  We're still a far ways away from baseball and football, but hockey is starting to get a bit high in terms of salaries.  

$8.5 for Skinner is an overpayment, in any scenario. Crosby makes $8.7. Think about that for a second. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by MadDog2020

[NJDfan1711]

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

$8.5 is for Skinner is an overpayment, in any scenario. Crosby makes $8.7. Think about that for a second. 

Yeah but when did he get his contract, 4 or 5 years ago?  And what was the max individual annual salary then?  10M?  Context man, context lol.

[MadDog2020]

1 minute ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Yeah but when did he get his contract, 4 or 5 years ago?  And what was the max individual annual salary then?  10M?  Context man, context lol.

Context, no context... it’s too much money and I’m glad someone else is making that mistake.

[DevsMan84]

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

Context, no context... it’s too much money and I’m glad someone else is making that mistake.

If we do sign a notable FA this summer, I am expecting at least $7-9M per which would make him the highest paid player on our team next season.

[MadDog2020]

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

If we do sign a notable FA this summer, I am expecting at least $7-9M per which would make him the highest paid player on our team next season.

That’s fine, depending on who it is.... Jeff Skinner for $9 mil? Yeah no thanks. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by MadDog2020

[NJDfan1711]

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

Context, no context... it’s too much money and I’m glad someone else is making that mistake.

I feel ya.  What do you have against Skinner though?  Guy's young (just turned 27), has been a 50/60 point player for the last 4 seasons, and, one of my personal favorite things, has been remarkably healthy, only missing 3 games in the last 4 years.  8.5/9M might be too high, but I'd definitely sign him for 7-8.

[NJDevils1214]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I feel ya.  What do you have against Skinner though?  Guy's young (just turned 27), has been a 50/60 point player for the last 4 seasons, and, one of my personal favorite things, has been remarkably healthy, only missing 3 games in the last 4 years.  8.5/9M might be too high, but I'd definitely sign him for 7-8.

He overachieved last year and now he is going to be paid for it. I am with everyone else here but I understand your point-- 7/8M doesn't carry the same weight as when Crosby signed his deal several years ago. The cap has gone up and players at his caliber are getting 11-13m now as opposed to his 8 and change. Skinner is a good player but he is going to get overpaid regardless. Why should we do it when it looks like we are on the right track to build from within? 

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I feel ya.  What do you have against Skinner though?  Guy's young (just turned 27), has been a 50/60 point player for the last 4 seasons, and, one of my personal favorite things, has been remarkably healthy, only missing 3 games in the last 4 years.  8.5/9M might be too high, but I'd definitely sign him for 7-8.

Skinner can score, but he doesn’t really do anything else. For the kind of money and term we’re talking about, I’d prefer a guy with more substance than 50-60 points per year, who doesn’t bring much else to the table. 

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

$8.5 for Skinner is an overpayment, in any scenario. Crosby makes $8.7. Think about that for a second. 

Can't really compare anything to Crosby's deal.  It was heavily front loaded 12 year deal although he'll be playing for real money ($3 million a year) for the last three years when he's 36.

[mfitz804]

28 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Skinner can score, but he doesn’t really do anything else. For the kind of money and term we’re talking about, I’d prefer a guy with more substance than 50-60 points per year, who doesn’t bring much else to the table. 

Yeah I’m not thrilled with the concept that $9m gets you a 50 point guy. We’re about to try to pay Taylor Hall that much, or just a little more. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

17 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Skinner can score, but he doesn’t really do anything else. For the kind of money and term we’re talking about, I’d prefer a guy with more substance than 50-60 points per year, who doesn’t bring much else to the table. 

That contract has disaster written all over it.  His 40-goal season in some ways was a bit like Clarkson's 30-goal year...for quite a while, damned near EVERYTHING broke right for him last year...he shot 21.6% over his first 44 GP (30 G)...that's damned near TWICE his career shooting% (11.4).  If you get 2014-15, 2015-16, or 2017-18 Skinner for a great big UFA overpayment, you are gonna be PISSED.  He had one of his most prolific and fortuitous years at just the right time...great for him, not so great for the team that gets suckered into thinking there's more where that came from. 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

Yeah I’m not thrilled with the concept that $9m gets you a 50 point guy. We’re about to try to pay Taylor Hall that much, or just a little more. 

The "good" news is that Taylor's injury history might mean his price won't be too too crazy.  Skinner's missed just 8 games over the past 5 seasons...he does have that going for him.  Hall's missed 94 games over the past 5 seasons, by comparison. 

[mfitz804]

23 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The "good" news is that Taylor's injury history might mean his price won't be too too crazy.  Skinner's missed just 8 games over the past 5 seasons...he does have that going for him.  Hall's missed 94 games over the past 5 seasons, by comparison. 

Does that mean they are “worth” the same money? 

[Daniel]

25 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The "good" news is that Taylor's injury history might mean his price won't be too too crazy.  Skinner's missed just 8 games over the past 5 seasons...he does have that going for him.  Hall's missed 94 games over the past 5 seasons, by comparison. 

A good and reasonably probable result would be Hall getting the Seguin contract without insane bonuses but maybe takes into account tax considerations.  I hold out some hope that he'll be willing to take some kind of discount that allows the team to acquire more talent.  Maybe a lower cap hit in return for the maximum amount of money being paid up front in bonuses.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Daniel