2019 Offseason Thread

[Crisis]

Just now, Devilsfan118 said:

Wait I'm confused - he's an RFA isn't he?

Why the hell does he have a say where he goes?

Yeah I didn't understand this either..

[DJ Eco]

11 hours ago, devlman said:

When they get Panarin on JULY 2nd, lets have this conversation. You guys have such little faith. Relax and trust in Ray.

It's not even little faith, they jumped that line a long time ago. These people are neurotic.

Half the Devils fanbase is going nuts off a prediction of stuff they themselves are insisting is going to happen between July 2019 and July 2020, and they're losing their sh!t over it.

It's neurotic behavior. Take a chill pill guys, this is no way to support a team. The draft hasn't even happened yet, free agency is weeks away, RELAX.

Edited June 18, 2019 by DJ Eco

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

13 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If that happens, Ray needs to be fired immediately, but of course he won't since our owners really really love that cap space. 

OK, what's your facebook handle and what the hell have you done with Daniel?! 

[DJ Eco]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

2) I think there is some overreactions going on here, but I don't think it is wrong to be concerned.  I actually like how the Rangers are rebuilding more than how the Devils are doing it.  They are trading top-end talent (Zucc, Hayes, etc) on their team and getting first rounders for them.  We, on the other hand, are trading guys like Boyle, Lovejoy and MoJo and appropriately getting 2nd and 3rd's for them.  If the Devils want to speed up the process, we gotta be in the mentality of giving up guys of value and really work on getting first rounders.  That means going forward anyone not named Smith, Hischier and Hughes are available.

Other than Palmieri, we simply haven't had those caliber pieces to flip, so any comparison between the two that veers toward Shero-criticism is getting upset over an apples-to-oranges view of the two teams.

Not one Devils player reached the points total Kevin Hayes did last season, but people are getting upset over returns Gorton was able to turn Hayes into being better than Shero's returns? That's just dumb.

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

OK, what's your facebook handle and what the hell have you done with Daniel?! 

When Ray "weaponizes" his cap space for Tyler Myers and Kevin Labanc don't say I didn't tell you so.  Oooh I forgot, maybe we'll even get Jake Gardiner.  That way Ray can trade Ty Smith for Alex Kilorn or maybe Tyler Johnson if we're really, really lucky.

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, DJ Eco said:

Other than Palmieri, we simply haven't had those caliber pieces to flip, so any comparison between the two that veers toward Shero-criticism is getting upset over an apples-to-oranges view of the two teams.

Not one Devils player reached the points total Kevin Hayes did last season, but people are getting upset over returns Gorton was able to turn Hayes into being better than Shero's returns? That's just dumb.

We have Vats as well who is currently our top D-man (unfortunately).

Going forward our core is simply Smith, Hischier and Hughes/Kakko.  Everyone else is expendable.  We can't be afraid to trade players like Vats, Hall and Palms.

[Daniel]

Just now, DevsMan84 said:

We have Vats as well who is currently our top D-man (unfortunately).

Going forward our core is simply Smith, Hischier and Hughes/Kakko.  Everyone else is expendable.  We can't be afraid to trade players like Vats, Hall and Palms.

Depressing, but accurate.

[Devilsfan118]

2 hours ago, jagknife said:

Watch, Point signs for 4x$4m. People will really lose their minds

I would not at all be surprised if they lock him up to a 8 x 7 type deal or something similar.

Taxes, brah.  

[Devilsfan118]

Just for shiggles, here's the Rags core (stolen from a comment on reddit):

Jacob Trouba (25)

Brady Skjei (25)

Pavel Buchnevich (24)

Brendan Lemieux (23)

Alex Georgiev (23)

Igor Sheterkin (23)

Adam Fox (21)

Brett Howden (21)

Libor Hajek (21)

Ryan Lindgren (21)

Lias Andersson (20)

Filip Chytil (19)

Vitaly Kravtsov (19)

K'Andre Miller (19)

Nils Lundkvist (18)

Kaapo Kakko (18)

Lots of unproven talent, obviously.  That goes without saying.  But holy sh!t are they stockpiling talent.

Compare it to ours and its damn close if not clearly better.. and we've had two lottery wins.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Devilsfan118

[DJ Eco]

3 hours ago, CMONPETEYD said:

I can't blame anyones negativity at this point.....  for the last year and a half or so the moves that have been made have been uninspiring at best while we see other teams make nice smart moves.  If you want to point at this one deal i think thats misguided in some sense, but I think its the opportunities passing us by that probably hurt more....

Could we have paid the same price for Skinner - probably!

How about O'Reilly?  Sure - didn't seem too high....

Now Trouba - Price was reasonable...

1. Skinner - fair.
2. O'Reilly - if Colorado wanted a 1st in 2019, then that was obviously a non-starter for the Devils. We can't say "Yeah, but what if they would be okay with a 1st in 2020", because we can go down any number of rabbit-holes with that kind of logic. If they really wanted a 1st in 2019, we couldn't get O'Reilly.
3. Trouba - same as the above; if Winnipeg wants a 1st round pick in 2019 that they gave away, because they know it's a deep 1st round, then we're completely out of the running; non-starter.

If people want to pick out every good trade leaguewide made the previous year, and say the Devils should've been in on them, the logic really clearly says that no we could not. We simply could not match most of these packages, because we could not provide a 1st in 2019. Offering a 1st in 2020 instead brings the value of our return down, and everyone who can offer a 1st is instantly ahead of us in the running. It's really that simple.

 

3 hours ago, CMONPETEYD said:

At some point soon - and I mean soon (2-3 months), Ray better do something more than an over reaction to missing the bus on some of these other trades.  

Agreed, and I think every rational fan agrees with that timeline. 2018-2019 was obviously the year of non-moves and no-trades to set up for a big offseason in summer 2019. We're here, and I think until the week before the season starts is how long we'll need to fully evaluate the job Shero is doing. There are fans calling for his firing after this Rangers trade, the hysteria I'm seeing is ridiculous, when did we become Montreal?

Edited June 18, 2019 by DJ Eco

[DJ Eco]

15 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Just for shiggles, here's the Rags core (stolen from a comment on reddit):

Jacob Trouba (25)

Brady Skjei (25)

Pavel Buchnevich (24)

Brendan Lemieux (23)

Alex Georgiev (23)

Igor Sheterkin (23)

Adam Fox (21)

Brett Howden (21)

Libor Hajek (21)

Ryan Lindgren (21)

Lias Andersson (20)

Filip Chytil (19)

Vitaly Kravtsov (19)

K'Andre Miller (19)

Nils Lundkvist (18)

Kaapo Kakko (18)

Lots of unproven talent, obviously.  That goes without saying.  But holy sh!t are they stockpiling talent.

Compare it to ours and its damn close if not clearly better.. and we've had two lottery wins.

Do people really think like 3/4 of that list will be top 6 talent? Is there something special about this list other than a list of some other team's prospects? Sure, a bunch of them *may* all become good... just like any team...

Edited June 18, 2019 by DJ Eco

[DJ Eco]

1 hour ago, jagknife said:

I understand is as fans have a strong tendency to over value our own players, but if Shero only gets a first for Hall, a guy one year removed from being the MVP of the league and pulling a team to the playoffs damn near single handedly, then Shero failed.

We also have missed the playoffs three out of four seasons. While he has rebuilt our farm system from the roster equivalent of a fourth world country, not fielding a team that can finish in the top 20, let alone in the post season outside of the aforementioned season, will also be an issue.

I alluded to it yesterday after my initial “fvck fvck fvck” post when the deal was announced, he’s got the next two weeks to show progress. If we stand pat at the draft while others make moves, and/or 1 July ends with nothing to show, i’m going to be upset.

not like a keyboard warrior being upset matters but it might make me feel better for exactly 6.9 seconds

No, he's actually got 3-4 months, you need to deprogram yourself from thinking this way, the amount of alarmism and hysteria in Devilsland this offseason is going to give everyone a heart attack. People need to relax.

The amount of infighting I've seen (not referring to you, just in general) BECAUSE THE RANGERS MADE ONE GOOD TRADE is almost unbearable, we're obviously a damaged fanbase at this point.

Edited June 18, 2019 by DJ Eco

[CommonDreads]

 

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, DJ Eco said:

No, he's actually got 3-4 months, you need to deprogram yourself from thinking this way, the amount of alarmism and hysteria in Devilsland this offseason is going to give everyone a heart attack. People need to relax.

No, he's got more like three weeks, and that might be too much time to give him.  This is the offseason he has to make the team significantly better if we're ever going to be relevant.  And it looks like he's going to sit on his hands just like the last two seasons. 

1 minute ago, CommonDreads said:

 

One last team to weaponize our beloved cap space against.  It also doesn't look like the going rate on those second rounders will amount to much.

[DJ Eco]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

No, he's got more like three weeks, and that might be too much time to give him.  This is the offseason he has to make the team significantly better if we're ever going to be relevant.  And it looks like he's going to sit on his hands just like the last two seasons. 

You're insane

[CommonDreads]

Liberating.

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, DJ Eco said:

You're insane

Every player worth acquiring will not be available by shortly after July 1.  They say insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results... that's Ray Shero keeping his powder dry. 

[Jerzey]

9 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

Liberating.

I thought I had done that somehow and I was unsuccessfully trying to figure out how to undo it.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Jerzey

[Jerzey]

Regarding the Rags quick turnaround I think it’s important to note that they had good assets to trade off for good returns. Shero hasn’t had the same level of talent to work with regarding being able to make A level deals. He got lucky with Hall and has worked some magic with teams up against the cap (Palms and Mojo), but that’s not on the same level as what Gorton has/had to work with. To beat the dead horse yet again, it all goes back to losing Parise and Kovy for nothing.   

[DevsMan84]

FWIW "weaponize our cap space" has now become my new favorite phrase.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

7 minutes ago, Jerzey said:

I thought I had done that somehow and I was unsuccessfully trying to figure out how to undo it.

Ditto

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, MB3 said:

Are you okay? Like, what happened to you? 

This is a bizarre heel-turn for someone who I've gotten to know over the past decade on this forum. If the Devils had traded a 2nd and 3rd for a 1-year rental of an impending UFA, borderline middle-pairing defenseman (who was -14 on one of the best teams in the West) you would have flipped the fvck out.

I don't want to add you to ignore because you're an awesome poster who looks to just be having a very public meltdown. I hope everything is okay; I mean that. 

Time is ticking away and players that can really help the team are steadily becoming unavailable with what looks like zero effort from Shero.  I'm sick to death of hearing him talk about how valuable his fvcking cap space is and doing nothing with it.  That's loser analytics talk, and what do ya know, we hired some Oilers cast off who specializes in convincing you not to acquire talent because the Corsi/Cap space ratio isn't in equilibrium. 

[DJ Eco]

27 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Every player worth acquiring will not be available by shortly after July 1.  They say insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results... that's Ray Shero keeping his powder dry. 

Insanity is thinking there aren't 3-4 ways to acquire players and significantly strengthen our roster between now and like... September 27th; insanity is ignoring the fact that Shero has actually made those types of moves within that type of timeline, in recent years. Insanity is thinking we're a team that will sign 3-4 free agents on July 1. Spoiler alert: we won't. Free agents don't really like New Jersey, we've never been that team.

So, knowing all of that ^ you're choosing to still set some arbitrary 2 week performance window and set your expectations high, and will come back here on July 2nd and probably argue with us about how Shero should be fired.

It all just seems so unnecessary, I don't know man... you don't have to support the team this way... I'm not here to tell you what to do, but it doesn't need to be this stressful lol

Speculation is fun, it's why we're all here, but when we're getting in arguments about stuff that hasn't happened yet, and stuff that has months to still happen, it just doesn't need to be this way.

Edited June 18, 2019 by DJ Eco

[Anhkheg]

Everyone just take a 5 minute break and go do some yoga. I am pretty sure all the GMs in the entire league tried to get Trouba and failed. We dont know what went on behind the scenes and its pointless speculating. The bottom line, Shero has two options, improve the team or stand pat, because regressing is not an option. Now there are a LOT of cap strapped teams giving us room to improve, but deals take a certain amount of patience and negotiating. The one who panics is usually the one who loses.

Daniel, ease your mind, look at the Rangers history: Brad Richards, Rick Nash, Shattenkirk, Jagr, and now Trouba.

Shero's history: Taylor Hall, Mojo, Palmieri, Vatanen, Maroon, this is with no assets to trade.

Take it easy guys, Shero is an astute GM, I didnt think as highly of him when he was with the Pens, but the last best decision Lou made was giving us Shero.

[Devil Dan 56]

Wait, the Rangers got a guy who only wanted to go to the Rangers and its still 3 days until the draft that we have 10 picks in and free agency isn't for another 2 weeks??