2019 Offseason Thread

[SterioDesign]

3 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Ducks buying out Perry.

Wonder who inquires? Don't think he fits out situation at all.

i think that's good cause some team needing help on the offense NOW may go that route and sign him. And it's one less team bidding for players we may want on the trade market

[Daniel]

20 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

While you’re not wrong it’s the timing of this Randy Quaid Major League meltdown that’s odd. You want to attack Ray after our do nothing offseason last year fine. You want to attack him after he does nothing again this offseason even better, I’ll agree with much of what he’s saying if we have another offseason of excuses and the process and I too am getting very suspect of Shero, the Maccagnan comparison is better than Sandy, minus the FA spending.

Thing is, we have a ton of cap room AND draft capital and neither the draft or the first week of FA have happened yet. We could literally be days between Shero making a trade and FA splash and rendering the last several pages of this thread psychotic paranoia. Or it could be an accurate prediction. I don’t get the point of going all in on the meltdown before there’s something new to meltdown over though.

Trouba was a player this team needed and he got traded for nothing to someone else.  He didn't have a no-trade clause, so he didn't get to pick where he went, but Ray cowered in fear.

  I listen to what Shero says, and it's all buzzwords about cap space and cap efficiency rather than getting players that are going to humiliate our opponents on the scoreboard on a regular basis.  The analytics people he brought it are all about contract value, not putting pucks in the other team's net value. 

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Trouba was a player this team needed and he got traded for nothing to someone else.  He didn't have a no-trade clause, so he didn't get to pick where he went, but Ray cowered in fear.

Again, this is made up in your head and you have no basis for saying it. 

[NJDevs4978]

re: Trouba we don’t know what Ray did or didn’t do, but we do know he didn’t have an extra first round pick this year to offer the Jets. You were going to have to beat the Rangers offer just to get Trouba. How were we going to do that, #34 and Butcher? That would be a bit reckless - if the Jets even take that - because even if you get Trouba no guarantee he’s not a rental. You can complain it’s Shero’s job to sell NJ but he can’t make players sign any more than Lou could make Parise, Kovalchuk and JT (among many others) stay in their locations.

What else would even be a comparable offer to a 1 this year which we don’t have, an unprotected 2020 first which is risky for both sides? (the Jets would obviously prefer #20 this year to a non lottery pick next year while if it was a lottery pick it could blow up on us).

Edited June 19, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[devlman]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

We lucked our way into those two #1OA picks.  Without them, the difference would be far more stark.

Nah, I am taking their U21 guys any day over ours.  Beyond Smith and a couple guys it gets really thin really fast.

Who are these great blue chip prospects that they have then?

[Daniel]

Just now, NJDevs4978 said:

re: Trouba we don’t know what Ray did or didn’t do, but we do know he didn’t have an extra first round pick this year to offer the Jets. You were going to have to beat the Rangers offer just to get Trouba. How were we going to do that, #34 and Butcher? That would be a bit reckless because even if you get Trouba no guarantee he’s not a rental. You can complain it’s Shero’s job to sell NJ but he can’t make players sign any more than Lou could make Parise, Kovalchuk and JT stay in their locations.

What else would be a comparable offer, an unprotected 2020 first which is risky for both sides? (the Jets would obviously prefer #20 this year to a non lottery pick next year while if it was a lottery pick it could blow up).

One year of Vatanen at 50% retained plus 34 for a team that is still looking to compete now is better than 20 overall and a below replacement level defenseman in Pionk. 

[devlman]

47 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

He didn't include Nico and Bratt as 'prospects' since they've graduated to the NHL - so I'm sure that hurt our ranking.  But if you consider adding Hughes and Kakko a wash (which many do), I think the Rangers come out wayy ahead still in the 2019 prospect pool ranking.  Outside of Smith and Boqvist.. there's not much coming through our pipeline.  Anderson, Walsh, and Davies are interesting but I don't think many consider them sure-fire NHL top-4 guys at this point.

Just my 2c.  Not trying to sound pessimistic.  But there's no denying the Rangers have supercharged their rebuild.

Nico and Bratt have to be included right off the bat. Anyway, Boqvist, Zetterlund, Studenic all look promising. You can’t tell me the Rags have a better pool of u21 players. There is plenty denying the rags have supercharged their rebuild.

Funny how NONE of this rag jerkoff session occurred before they acquired Trouba. NONE of you would be slurping rag dk like you are now the day before the Trouba deal. Can’t we agree that both teams are rebuilding well? They had more quality players to trade for better picks over the last few years. But we’ve drafted well ourselves and won the lottery a couple times. We’re both doing well, end of story.

Edited June 19, 2019 by devlman

[NJDevs4978]

10 minutes ago, Daniel said:

One year of Vatanen at 50% retained plus 34 for a team that is still looking to compete now is better than 20 overall and a below replacement level defenseman in Pionk. 

If being as competitive as possible was their motivation for doing the deal they would have just kept Trouba for the year rather than trade him for a pick and lesser rental. Rental for rental trades almost never happen outside of video games. Besides they might not have even wanted Vat anyway after a poor, injury plagued season.

Edited June 19, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[SterioDesign]

10 minutes ago, Daniel said:

One year of Vatanen at 50% retained plus 34 for a team that is still looking to compete now is better than 20 overall and a below replacement level defenseman in Pionk. 

how do you know they dont intend to flip that first round pick in another trade? i know it doesnt support your meltdown narrative but maybe you should be patient 

[Devil Dan 56]

11 minutes ago, Daniel said:

One year of Vatanen at 50% retained plus 34 for a team that is still looking to compete now is better than 20 overall and a below replacement level defenseman in Pionk. 

Maybe to you it is, but maybe to the Jets its not

[Devilsfan118]

2 hours ago, CommonDreads said:

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27006755/part-business-devils-gm-ray-shero-taylor-hall-no-1-pick-more

Shero on the possibility of an offer sheet this summer:

"We all know what the CBA is. There is no gentleman's agreement. Fvck that sh!t. When people say that, it's a lazy narrative, I'll tell you that. Really? Your ownership's competitive, GMs are competitive, and it's the buddy-buddy system? What the fvck is that? It doesn't mean something will or won't happen, but that's been the narrative for years, and I don't know why."

Soo this is interesting.

Do you give up 4 1sts for an offer sheet to Marner that the Leafs cannot match?

Hall - Hughes - Marner

Bratt - Nico - Palms

That's a stupid top-6.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Devilsfan118

[2ELIAS6]

6 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Soo this is interesting.

Do you give up 4 1sts for an offer sheet to Marner that the Leafs cannot match?

Hall - Hughes - Marner

Bratt - Nico - Palms

That's a stupid top-6.

from what I've been reading and my own personal opinion there is no way we can give up what an offer sheet would cost to acquire Marner. With that said, I think wen should definitely be in contact with Toronto and feel them out, if they think they are not going to be able to re sign him, I think it would only be smart on their behalf to be getting ideas on what they would get in a trade for him. Yes, I know we may not have what they would probably be looking for, but id hope we would obviously have the phones going to see what options could be out there to continue improving this team.

[NJDevils1214]

7 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Soo this is interesting.

Do you give up 4 1sts for an offer sheet to Marner that the Leafs cannot match?

Hall - Hughes - Marner

Bratt - Nico - Palms

That's a stupid top-6.

Depends on where you think that moves your team for the next four years. If those picks put you in the range of 20++ by adding that player I think you absolutely do it. Do the Devils get to that level by adding Marner? - - I don't think so. 

Interesting to see Ray so... Candid in that interview. 

[Neb00rs]

2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I have a feeling we'll either get a Devils move today, or if not, start hearing a strong rumor.

This feeling is based on absolutely nothing. I just feel like we'll get a "response" to the Trouba deal. These things usually happen between 12-2pm. 

I'm not saying people won't have a meltdown and talk about how sh!tty it is that the Rangers got Trouba and we got whoever, that's a given. 

This is not going to seem like a very reasonable thing to say given that this board has descended into lunacy before the offseason has even started (either that or Daniel is using us for a social experiment) but I think the Devils best move is to do nothing until the draft starts. Let's make our first pick and let some chips fall. I'd want to see who is available late in the first round before deciding what to do with the second round picks. Ray basically explained to Wysh today that he's made all the phone calls already and then if he wants to do something he can come back around to those teams during the draft. 

There's a bunch of hysteria going on here but nonetheless patience is key to rebuilding the Devils. I'm glad Ray isn't in a rush to go out and spend on unecessary contracts. The Devils will not compete for the Cup next year pretty much no matter what, there's not that much urgency here. 

I think Ray will make a splash come free agency and knowing him it might be for someone none of us were expecting. But our focus should still be on getting and developing our prospects. We've drafted poorly for a long time. Getting Jack Hughes pushes things up a bit but... not that much. 

It'd be great if Ray can get a RW and D this offseason - that's the ideal summer, but yeah...I'd rather him not pay too much to do it... we're not at the point where that's necessary. 

[SterioDesign]

10 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Depends on where you think that moves your team for the next four years. If those picks put you in the range of 20++ by adding that player I think you absolutely do it. Do the Devils get to that level by adding Marner? - - I don't think so. 

Interesting to see Ray so... Candid in that interview. 

Yeah cause i mean... the leafs didnt win anything WITH Marner, Matthews and all those guys... so adding marner to our team would help but not sure it would put us to the top... we'd still need to get better at other position... free agency is not often a good spot and we wouldnt have much to trade either over the next 4 seasons.

big moves dont always pan out. Hell just look at minny... they never went past the 2nd round since the Parise/Suter signings. And that's going to cripple them later for sure. So spending insane money is not always the way to go

And Spending to the cap doesn't always work. there's teams that sucks right now up to the cap and there's team who didnt make it far in the playoffs up to the cap with no flexibility at all.. at least we have flexibility to make moves to get better. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by SterioDesign

[jagknife]

19 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah cause i mean... the leafs didnt win anything WITH Marner, Matthews and all those guys... so adding marner to our team would help but not sure it would put us to the top... we'd still need to get better at other position... free agency is not often a good spot and we wouldnt have much to trade either over the next 4 seasons.

big moves dont always pan out. Hell just look at minny... they never went past the 2nd round since the Parise/Suter signings. And that's going to cripple them later for sure. So spending insane money is not always the way to go

And Spending to the cap doesn't always work. there's teams that sucks right now up to the cap and there's team who didnt make it far in the playoffs up to the cap with no flexibility at all.. at least we have flexibility to make moves to get better. 

Devils’ advocate here: I think the Leafs’ shortcomings are a mixed bag. I think the coach is so damn arrogant to realize how dumb he’s being, I mean Babs kept Matthews’ minutes right around 20 or under and he was on fire.

The Wild are a dumpster fire, and the Parise/Suter deals are the cornerstone of it.

I agree that while a theoretical Marner (EDIT: not Mariner like my phone autocorrected) doesn’t make us a Cup contender alone, I do think Marner, plus Hughes and a healthy Hall and a (hopefully) improved Bratt and Nico does equal playoffs and being competitive. Of course, a lot of what ifs and hope in there, plus still need a defender, but it’s a heck of a better lineup heading into next season.

The possible four firsts could hurt, but it could also be a moot point with playoff successes and a better farm system that we have 4-5 years ago.

Eh, it’s a pipe dream, but that’s what makes the unknown for some really fun.

Edited June 19, 2019 by jagknife

[SterioDesign]

1 minute ago, jagknife said:

Devils’ advocate here: I think the Leafs’ shortcomings are a mixed bag. I think the coach is so damn arrogant to realize how dumb he’s being, I mean Babs kept Matthews’ minutes right around 20 or under and he was on fire.

The Wild are a dumpster fire, and the Parise/Suter deals are the cornerstone of it.

I agree that while a theoretical Marner (EDIT: not Mariner like my phone autocorrected) doesn’t make us a Cup contender alone, I do think Marner, plus Hughes and a healthy Hall and a (hopefully) improved Bratt and Nico does equal playoffs and being competitive. Of course, a lot of what ifs and hope in there, plus still need a defender, but it’s a heck of a better lineup heading into next season.

The possible four firsts could hurt, but it could also be a moot point with playoff successes and a better farm system that we have 4-5 years ago.

Eh, it’s a pipe dream, but that’s what makes the unknown for some really fun.

obviously but its a huge gamble... just look at ottawa... they took that gamble thinking they'd be making the playoffs for awhile... and one year burned them BADLY when they needed it the most. 

I mean... our team got SO bad because of Lou's all-out mentality and bad drafting. We had to get rid of all the bad contract. change the team's direction completely and restock on prospects, assets and revamp the roster from almost nothing... It takes more than 4 years to do that. I'm not sure it's a smart move to take a HUGE gamble that could set us back quite a bit rather than taking the safe road and follow a plan to pick up the best assets along the way. Especially when we've been insanely lucky to win the lottery 2 years out of the 4... that's as much a little boost as you can really hope to get when you have litterally no prospects, no trade-able assets and not a good roster.

 

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Maybe to you it is, but maybe to the Jets its not

And maybe he also has no clue what he's talking about. 

[Daniel]

55 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

from what I've been reading and my own personal opinion there is no way we can give up what an offer sheet would cost to acquire Marner. With that said, I think wen should definitely be in contact with Toronto and feel them out, if they think they are not going to be able to re sign him, I think it would only be smart on their behalf to be getting ideas on what they would get in a trade for him. Yes, I know we may not have what they would probably be looking for, but id hope we would obviously have the phones going to see what options could be out there to continue improving this team.

The Devils could absolutely afford to give an offersheet to Marner if the goal was to win.  But the goal is to distract you with amassing third line forwards and celebrate the triumphant return of Ben Lovejoy.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Daniel

[Devil Dan 56]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

And maybe he also has no clue what he's talking about. 

This is also a strong possibility. 

[Crisis]

A team can offer sheet for $10.5m and be in the tier under 4x 1sts.  Does $10.5 not get him to sign it?

You gotta imagine the player knows what he is costing the team as well.  Maybe getting 5% less is worth not completely handicapping your new team for your term there.

[mikemarc1]

Does Shero inquire?

[Lateralous]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The Devils could absolutely afford to give an offersheet to Marner if the goal was to win.  But the goal is to distract you with amassing third line forwards and celebrate the triumphant return of Ben Lovejoy.

We could also quickly find ourselves in the same salary cap mess that Toronto's in.   If we give Marner the 11.5 or whatever it would take, Hall as a better player at the same position would surely want more.   Then Nico and Hughes come up for contracts in 2 and 3 years.  Leafs have to shed salary and that "juggernaut" hasn't even won a playoff series yet.        

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, Crisis said:

A team can offer sheet for $10.5m and be in the tier under 4x 1sts.  Does $10.5 not get him to sign it?

You gotta imagine the player knows what he is costing the team as well.  Maybe getting 5% less is worth not completely handicapping your new team for your term there.

If Ray's goal since he got here was to build a winner, he could sign someone to an offersheet past the four first rounder threshold.  This is because he has already had two number 1 overall picks in the three years, got lucky that Ty Smith was available last season and was also very lucky that an even more ineffective GM than him decided to give us Taylor Hall.   If, after all that, you refuse to add someone as good as Mitch Marner or maybe Mikko Rantanen, because you need those draft picks, you're grossly incompetent, but we knew that already.

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

We could also quickly find ourselves in the same salary cap mess that Toronto's in.   If we give Marner the 11.5 or whatever it would take, Hall as a better player at the same position would surely want more.   Then Nico and Hughes come up for contracts in 2 and 3 years.  Leafs have to shed salary and that "juggernaut" hasn't even won a playoff series yet.        

Then just announce that all Devils games from here on out will be exhibitions where the score won't be kept.  Toronto might be having cap problems, but you know what they're also doing: winning.