mfitz804 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, MB3 said: Ironically enough I was just thinking that, and the answer is hell yeah I would. But Zacha wouldn't take it. I would also, if only to increase his trade value in the event this ISN'T the year he breaks out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 34 minutes ago, MB3 said: Ironically enough I was just thinking that, and the answer is hell yeah I would. But Zacha wouldn't take it. All things being equal- If Zacha turned down seven years of security given what he’s accomplished thus far in his career- I’d have to question his sanity. I’d also have to question Ray’s sanity if he offered Zacha seven years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: All things being equal- If Zacha turned down seven years of security given what he’s accomplished thus far in his career- I’d have to question his sanity. I’d also have to question Ray’s sanity if he offered Zacha seven years. These are fair points. BUT... ...what if it IS the year he breaks out, and he becomes a 50 point a year guy and you have him locked in at 7 years/$20m. You COULD look like a genius. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 55 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: All things being equal- If Zacha turned down seven years of security given what he’s accomplished thus far in his career- I’d have to question his sanity. I’d also have to question Ray’s sanity if he offered Zacha seven years. Zacha would be betting against otherwise not being an NHL player by the time he's 29. He's been a disappointment thus far, for sure, but he should be at least an average NHL player for ten years. So it wouldn't be crazy for him to turn it down. Ray would want to do it if he thinks Zacha has something like 40-50 point/two-way play upside, which is a strong possibility if you put him on Hughes' wing. His career arc, going back to junior is pretty similar to Ryan Johnanson, who got traded for Seth f'n Jones and that was before you had to pay him $8 million a year. Now imagine how valuable a player like that is getting paid about 3% of the cap. On the other hand, if he's pretty much what he is now it's not the end of the world and it wouldn't be terrible to retain the maximum of his salary if we just needed to dump him. And of course, there's always the expansion draft route if necessary to get rid of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Daniel said: Zacha would be betting against otherwise not being an NHL player by the time he's 29. He's been a disappointment thus far, for sure, but he should be at least an average NHL player for ten years. So it wouldn't be crazy for him to turn it down. Ray would want to do it if he thinks Zacha has something like 40-50 point/two-way play upside, which is a strong possibility if you put him on Hughes' wing. His career arc, going back to junior is pretty similar to Ryan Johnanson, who got traded for Seth f'n Jones and that was before you had to pay him $8 million a year. Now imagine how valuable a player like that is getting paid about 3% of the cap. On the other hand, if he's pretty much what he is now it's not the end of the world and it wouldn't be terrible to retain the maximum of his salary if we just needed to dump him. And of course, there's always the expansion draft route if necessary to get rid of him. Agree totally, there's almost no reason for Zacha to do it unless he feels he is a total failure. From the team's perspective, I would do it and I wouldn't look back. I would, however, change the S in "Almost" to a dollar sign when people complain about how we "paid him for nothing" if he was released, or "paid him for too long" by giving him 7 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Daniel said: Zacha would be betting against otherwise not being an NHL player by the time he's 29. He's been a disappointment thus far, for sure, but he should be at least an average NHL player for ten years. So it wouldn't be crazy for him to turn it down. Ray would want to do it if he thinks Zacha has something like 40-50 point/two-way play upside, which is a strong possibility if you put him on Hughes' wing. His career arc, going back to junior is pretty similar to Ryan Johnanson, who got traded for Seth f'n Jones and that was before you had to pay him $8 million a year. Now imagine how valuable a player like that is getting paid about 3% of the cap. On the other hand, if he's pretty much what he is now it's not the end of the world and it wouldn't be terrible to retain the maximum of his salary if we just needed to dump him. And of course, there's always the expansion draft route if necessary to get rid of him. You aren’t wrong, and I did consider all that.... still, if I were Zacha and I had seven years of security locked in without playing another shift staring me in the face, it would be very tempting. Edited July 23, 2019 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) Clarkson and a 4th to Toronto for Sparks okay what in the literal fvck is Toronto doing? Edited July 23, 2019 by jagknife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, jagknife said: Clarkson and a 4th to Toronto for Sparks okay what in the literal fvck is Toronto doing? Clearing $4.5m in cap space, no? LOL no, ADDING it. Edited July 23, 2019 by mfitz804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, mfitz804 said: Clearing $4.5m in cap space, no? LOL no, ADDING it. So here’s something I don’t understand about the salary cap thing. They can dump both Clarkson and Horton on LTIR and save about $10m on the cap, if they keep trading for LTIR players will they keep getting more and more cap relief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, jagknife said: So here’s something I don’t understand about the salary cap thing. They can dump both Clarkson and Horton on LTIR and save about $10m on the cap, if they keep trading for LTIR players will they keep getting more and more cap relief? I don’t understand it either. But I really don’t understand adding Clarkson when you are trying to sign Marner. Unless they aren’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I get it now. They can exceed the cap by a certain amount if they LTIR guys. This actually gives more space for Marner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 5 hours ago, MadDog2020 said: All things being equal- If Zacha turned down seven years of security given what he’s accomplished thus far in his career- I’d have to question his sanity. I’d also have to question Ray’s sanity if he offered Zacha seven years. Right! hell no to anything 7 years with Zacha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 @mfitz804 here is a long twitter thread explaining what you and I have been trying to figure out today. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I fvcking hate the salary cap lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: I fvcking hate the salary cap lol. Still better than baseball, where small market teams have almost no chance. Even with all the loopholes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, Nicomo said: Still better than baseball, where small market teams have almost no chance. Even with all the loopholes. I guess I have to agree with that, since I think technically, we are closer to small market than big market at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, MB3 said: The LTIR loophole makes me wonder why the fvck teams don’t abuse it more often? Instead of all the major cap penalties to the Canucks, can’t luongo just... say ouchie? That’s what I don’t get. It’s too fraught with the opportunity for fraud. Yet it isn’t fraud, so why not use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, mfitz804 said: I fvcking hate the salary cap lol. salary cap is the reason we got many players on the cheap and will get more. And the reason the Rangers can't just...get EVERYONE. So you better start loving it pal lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzMB30 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Should I be the first to use the dreaded word(well, phrase)? Isn't this clear cap circumvention? Acquiring injured players in order to LTIR them? Have we done something this blatant? Maybe Matvichuk or some of the older guys that Lou somehow jettisoned, but still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, RizzMB30 said: Should I be the first to use the dreaded word(well, phrase)? Isn't this clear cap circumvention? Acquiring injured players in order to LTIR them? Have we done something this blatant? Maybe Matvichuk or some of the older guys that Lou somehow jettisoned, but still. not really cause Clarkson won't even be playing and won't count against the cap. They "basically" just bought a 4th round pick on the surface but as its been explained in those tweets it's really about prepping to start the season without marner Edited July 24, 2019 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 8 hours ago, SterioDesign said: salary cap is the reason we got many players on the cheap and will get more. And the reason the Rangers can't just...get EVERYONE. So you better start loving it pal lol I know, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 9 hours ago, RizzMB30 said: Should I be the first to use the dreaded word(well, phrase)? Isn't this clear cap circumvention? Acquiring injured players in order to LTIR them? Have we done something this blatant? Maybe Matvichuk or some of the older guys that Lou somehow jettisoned, but still. We did the same when we acquired Marc Savard if I remember correctly. Also the NHL is very selective about what they consider circumvention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Not a huge adv stats person so someone who is can tear this article apart for us. This is an interesting read about the Devils PK how Zacha is one of the best PK forwards in the league. Looks like PZ may be move valuable than you think fitzy! https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/7/22/20702094/pavel-zacha-new-jersey-devils-forwards-amazing-penalty-kill-2018-19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Crisis said: Not a huge adv stats person so someone who is can tear this article apart for us. This is an interesting read about the Devils PK how Zacha is one of the best PK forwards in the league. Looks like PZ may be move valuable than you think fitzy! https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/7/22/20702094/pavel-zacha-new-jersey-devils-forwards-amazing-penalty-kill-2018-19 Sometimes its all about finding your niche. Its clear that Zacha is excellent defensively. If he can start using his body more and put up some more points he can be a very valuable Zajac type player. Its not necessarily what you want at 6 overall but it's the kind of player you need depending how he develops. I would love to see him get some time at LW with Hughes and maybe Bratt in the preseason to see how his size and shot work with their skill and speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, Crisis said: Not a huge adv stats person so someone who is can tear this article apart for us. This is an interesting read about the Devils PK how Zacha is one of the best PK forwards in the league. Looks like PZ may be move valuable than you think fitzy! https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/7/22/20702094/pavel-zacha-new-jersey-devils-forwards-amazing-penalty-kill-2018-19 Only if you use those stupid stats I really don't understand. I mean, if I am reading some of those stats right, Kevin fvcking Rooney is 3rd and 5th in the NHL in those categories. If that doesn't show those stats to be unworthy of consideration, I don't know what does. I enjoyed the quote "Yes, even Zacha was creating a relatively high level of offense in shorthanded situations.". He had 2 goals and 1 assist short handed. That's not a "relatively high level of offense". If you go by stuff like "goals", "assists", and "living up to your potential as a 6th overall pick", he still sucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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