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Damn... my only comeback to this is really arrogant... That will not help my case... 

Daniel, you've been watching pro sports long enough to know that GMs don't often make for great interviews...they don't tend to spell out what they're going to do, and a lot of times fall back on vagu

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5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I am sure between the two of them it wasn't worth getting assault charges over a large bar tab jeez.

And the next article recommendation has Brooks breathlessly extolling his belief that Taylor halls contract negotiations begin at 13 million per year. Jeez.

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You begin at $13M per and watch the bidding escalate for this dynamic, difference-making winger — who will turn 28 on Nov. 14, 15 days after Panarin blows out the same number of candles on his birthday cake.

 

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8 hours ago, Nicomo said:

But Panarin is worth 11.6? He’s 6 years older, and has never cracked 90 points like Marner has.

 

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

Panarin’s worth more because he doesn’t have 4 1sts attached to him. 

And yes, I would have given Panarin 11.6 in a fvcking heartbeat.

Yeah, what MB3 said.

But I would argue Panarin is a more proven player as well. For two of Panarin's four seasons (all of which have been good) he played on a Columbus Blue Jackets team without an elite player aside from himself. He scored 169 ponts in 160 games as a Jacket. The next closest over that timeframe was Cam Atkinson who scored 115 points in 145 games. In Columbus he didn't even have another point per game player on the team with him or someone even close to it. Panarin clearly is going to be a star no matter where he is in the league - he's the player to build around. Not sure we even needed to go to stats, everyone here knows that there are times during the season when Panarin is second-to-none as far as wingers in the league go. 

And by the way, if Toronto gives Marner 11M I wouldn't think it outrageous. I just feel like it's a bit of an overpayment based on one big season playing with John Tavares - but given what they gave Matthews, Toronto probably has to do at least 11M/5 for Marner. Maybe they get the cap hit down just a bit more on an 8 year deal. 

As far as Panarin being six years older goes - well, that's not really relevant. Panarin is in his prime, he's not diminishing - players often get their biggest contracts in their first UFA eligible years, not when they're 22. There's only three players in the league right now under 25 who have cap hits above 9M. McDavid (12.5M) - understandable, Eichel (10M) - a bit questionable after his first two NHL seasons were sub-60 points but I sort of get the the risk for the sake of later value, and unfortunately for Toronto re: Marner negotiations, Matthews (11.6M).

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4 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Love Taylor and believe he does sign here and without too much stress, but no way in hell should it take anywhere near 13M.  To me that's crazy.

13M for Hall is just ridiculous. Given his track record with injuries we would be paying Hall 13M and lets be honest, we probably aren't getting full seasons out of him moving forward.

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33 minutes ago, DevilMinder said:

I am sure between the two of them it wasn't worth getting assault charges over a large bar tab jeez.

And the next article recommendation has Brooks breathlessly extolling his belief that Taylor halls contract negotiations begin at 13 million per year. Jeez.

 

I don't see any reason why the Devils would "begin at 13 million per year." Why? Because the rumored offer from CBJ to Panarin, which he didn't take, was 12M?

That said, I think Panarin's UFA will factor into Hall's agent's negotiations and it's not totally crazy to think talks could have some bumps. Should the Devils really just pay Hall whatever he wants? He'll be 29 when the new contract starts and he has dealt with various health issues throughout his career - both of which are points the Devils should probably raise in negotiations. How much do the Devils have to lowball Hall for him to want to see what July 1st, 2020 has to offer?

I'm not trying to spell doom, these are just the questions I have been asking myself. I think Hall wants to win more than he wants eke out every last dollar - so the Devils putting a really good team together right now helps them make a more persuasive case for a sub-Brooks hysteria level cap hit. 

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Just now, MB3 said:

Panarin’s worth more because he doesn’t have 4 1sts attached to him. 

And yes, I would have given Panarin 11.6 in a fvcking heartbeat.

Well, he’s worth more $$, or his $11.6 costs less than the same amount to Marner, that’s definitely true. 

28 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Love Taylor and believe he does sign here and without too much stress, but no way in hell should it take anywhere near 13M.  To me that's crazy.

He’s not getting $13m. 

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52 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Love Taylor and believe he does sign here and without too much stress, but no way in hell should it take anywhere near 13M.  To me that's crazy.

Yeah I love the guy, want him to retire a devil and all that, but if his honest-to-god ask is 13 million... Trade him.

If the guy wants to win, which by all accounts is his number one priority at this point, he should understand that taking up that much cap space isn't the way to do it.

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We can speculate just as easily that Hall will accept something of a discount (say the Seguin contract taking taxes into account) to allow Ray to make a huge splash and get a Marner or Laine and taking into account what the organization has done for him over the past three plus years.  

Going back to the four first rounders for Marner, I don’t think it should deter us at all if it can otherwise work out.  You have to assume the team will be very good immediately, and none of those picks will be lottery picks.  We have a ton of prospects in the system, some of whom have not even signed their ELCs that should be able to play those bottom six/bottom pairing roles that help keep the team cap compliant without having to rely on the first rounders to do it.  

If the time comes that we have to sell someone like Boqvist or an improved Zacha at something of a discount for cap reasons, so be it. It didn’t kill the Capitols having to do that with Mojo.

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1 hour ago, titans04 said:

I would bet it's just Brooks pulling some more crap out of his ass.  Yet here we are debating it.  

We've entered peak off-season lol

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32 minutes ago, Daniel said:

We can speculate just as easily that Hall will accept something of a discount (say the Seguin contract taking taxes into account) to allow Ray to make a huge splash and get a Marner or Laine and taking into account what the organization has done for him over the past three plus years.  

Going back to the four first rounders for Marner, I don’t think it should deter us at all if it can otherwise work out.  You have to assume the team will be very good immediately, and none of those picks will be lottery picks.  We have a ton of prospects in the system, some of whom have not even signed their ELCs that should be able to play those bottom six/bottom pairing roles that help keep the team cap compliant without having to rely on the first rounders to do it.  

If the time comes that we have to sell someone like Boqvist or an improved Zacha at something of a discount for cap reasons, so be it. It didn’t kill the Capitols having to do that with Mojo.

There's a contradiction in your statement above. On one hand you imply that any picks but lottery picks are not that valuable or likely to pan out and on the other you seem to think there's a high likelihood that a bevy of non-lottery pick prospects in our system are going to be capable NHLers. You need your mid to late first round draft picks because even though you're right, they often turn into nothing, they also often turn into something. You can get away with a scrub or two on your roster but it's not like the bottom six is entirely unimportant. It's entirely possible that of the [non-Jack Hughes] prospects in the Devils system right now, that aside from Smith, none turn into NHL-caliber players.

As far as Marner goes, it seems unlikely to me he joins the Devils and him staying in Toronto is good news for the Devils anyway, as it doesn't open up a spot on the Leafs for Taylor Hall, who seemingly loves Toronto and spends his entire offseasons there.

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2 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

There's a contradiction in your statement above. On one hand you imply that any picks but lottery picks are not that valuable or likely to pan out and on the other you seem to think there's a high likelihood that a bevy of non-lottery pick prospects in our system are going to be capable NHLers. You need your mid to late first round draft picks because even though you're right, they often turn into nothing, they also often turn into something. You can get away with a scrub or two on your roster but it's not like the bottom six is entirely unimportant. It's entirely possible that of the [non-Jack Hughes] prospects in the Devils system right now, that aside from Smith, none turn into NHL-caliber players.

As far as Marner goes, it seems unlikely to me he joins the Devils and him staying in Toronto is good news for the Devils anyway, as it doesn't open up a spot on the Leafs for Taylor Hall, who seemingly loves Toronto and spends his entire offseasons there.

There’s no contradiction.  We’ve had a lot of picks in general over the past four drafts, including this one.  The sheer volume of players selected and the fact that the non-first rounders don’t need to be homeruns means we can live without what figure to be non-lottery picks.  

And I don’t see Hall having any desire to play for a Canadian team ever again, based on how he was treated in Edmonton and how media jackasses there still spread rumors about him.  That’s just my speculation though.

Otherwise Marner is almost the same player as Patrick Kane.  You would easily give up four first rounder to have that type of player at age 22.  The bigger issue is whether he prevents you from doing other things you need to do because of his salary.

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16 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

As far as Marner goes, it seems unlikely to me he joins the Devils and him staying in Toronto is good news for the Devils anyway, as it doesn't open up a spot on the Leafs for Taylor Hall, who seemingly loves Toronto and spends his entire offseasons there.

Not sure where you're getting all the Toronto love from but he spends his off seasons there training. And he just started spending his off seasons there recently - this is from an April 2018 SI article: 

Upon returning from Coachella, Hall moved into a downtown Toronto apartment to spend the offseason with Andy O’Brien, the longtime trainer of Sidney Crosby. In years’ past Hall had always worked out in his hometown of Windsor, Ontario, under the supervision of his father, whose inventive programs included bobsled-based acceleration drills and catching mini footballs to train spacial awareness. But Hall wanted to skate and conduct on-ice skill work alongside fellow NHLers in the city.

ETA: quote taken from this article https://www.si.com/nhl/2018/04/12/taylor-hall-new-jersey-devils-mvp-playoffs

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29 minutes ago, Daniel said:

There’s no contradiction.  We’ve had a lot of picks in general over the past four drafts, including this one.  The sheer volume of players selected and the fact that the non-first rounders don’t need to be homeruns means we can live without what figure to be non-lottery picks.  

And I don’t see Hall having any desire to play for a Canadian team ever again, based on how he was treated in Edmonton and how media jackasses there still spread rumors about him.  That’s just my speculation though.

Otherwise Marner is almost the same player as Patrick Kane.  You would easily give up four first rounder to have that type of player at age 22.  The bigger issue is whether he prevents you from doing other things you need to do because of his salary.

You're taking a bigger bet than you're making it out to be on the prospects being NHL capable. I get how many players we've drafted but because picks so rarely turn out - most of them if not almost all of them won't make it. Even the next level offer sheet compensation down is much more manageable. Look back through past drafts - late first round picks are rarely ever stars but plenty turn into cheap NHLers. Huge dropoff in the second round and after. And additionally, some of our prospects won't be on ELCs in a few years either. It's a game of chance and not a great one, to give up four first round picks and then pay the player coming in an exorbitant amount of money. We can agree to disagree on the worthiness of taking that chance. It seems much more reasonable to me, to make a trade for a winger. Shero got Hall for Larsson. That won't happen again but trading less first round picks than an offer sheet would require could go very far in getting us someone on the wing. We also have a pretty full roster with little waivers flexibility - we're in a good position to trade players and picks for a better winger.

I'm obviously speculating on Hall too, he spent time in Kingston as a teen and I follow him pretty closely on social media - he seems to love Toronto and seems very connected with the city. He's also said good things about the NY/NJ area. Having Toronto off the market is just one less contender destination out there for Hall and it happens to be a place he enjoys. 

 

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2 hours ago, titans04 said:

I would bet it's just Brooks pulling some more crap out of his ass.  Yet here we are debating it.  

But by you guys posting here, I don’t have to click his sh!tty article and get him traffic, so victories! 

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1 hour ago, jagknife said:

Steve Simmons being a complete douche bag and wrong? Weird!

Do you think Aho's agent played Habs? (in the time period that you could discuss w/ RFA's) said agent told Habs he'd be honored to come to Montreal!

On the Brooksie article discussed above? (consider the source) 13 mil-..........................nah.  

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17 minutes ago, vadvlfan said:

Do you think Aho's agent played Habs? (in the time period that you could discuss w/ RFA's) said agent told Habs he'd be honored to come to Montreal!

On the Brooksie article discussed above? (consider the source) 13 mil-..........................nah.  

The player agrees to it knowing he’s forcing the current team’s hand into giving him a deal he may otherwise not have been offered at that time. 

Given that nobody has successfully offer sheeted anyone since what, 2007? It’s all part of the player’s negotiating tactics. 

So, in that respect, yes, the team submitting the offer sheet gets played. But so too does the current team. 

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1 hour ago, vadvlfan said:

Do you think Aho's agent played Habs? (in the time period that you could discuss w/ RFA's) said agent told Habs he'd be honored to come to Montreal!

On the Brooksie article discussed above? (consider the source) 13 mil-..........................nah.  

Steve Simmons was the one who said Rogers sports was cutting ties with Cherry in an apparently baseless article. 

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Off topic but I randomly watched the highlights of our cup run in 2012 and I offer the following commentary:

1. Now that time has passed it’s hard to hate Kovy. We don’t beat the Rangers without him; period. We probably don’t beat the panthers.

2. I was at Game 7 in Florida, row 2. Still the best moment in my life. 

3. That team blew a LOT of leads. I mean a lot. Quick counting: 3-0 against the Panthers; loss. 2-0 against the Panthers, 3-2 OT win. 2-0 against the Panthers, 3-2 double OT win. 3-0 against the rangers, 4-3 win. 2-0 against the rangers, OT win. Sheesh. ^7^ must’ve been in rare form.

4. In the game 5 win against the rangers, Gionta’s first goal is like 1,000% offsides. Lucky there wasn’t review, because that play looks dead. 

5. I will hate Mark fayne until the day I die. Just, ugh. 

6. That team made the cup finals with Peter Harold playing major minutes. 

7. Throw back to Alexi Ponikarovski. What a guy. Also throw back to when Clarkson was a beast. 

8. fvck you Mark Fayne.

thank you for coming to my ted talk

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