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2019 Offseason Thread

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44 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

All things being equal- If Zacha turned down seven years of security given what he’s accomplished thus far in his career- I’d have to question his sanity. I’d also have to question Ray’s sanity if he offered Zacha seven years.

These are fair points. BUT...

...what if it IS the year he breaks out, and he becomes a 50 point a year guy and you have him locked in at 7 years/$20m. You COULD look like a genius. 

 

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55 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

All things being equal- If Zacha turned down seven years of security given what he’s accomplished thus far in his career- I’d have to question his sanity. I’d also have to question Ray’s sanity if he offered Zacha seven years.

Zacha would be betting against otherwise not being an NHL player by the time he's 29.  He's been a disappointment thus far, for sure, but he should be at least an average NHL player for ten years.  So it wouldn't be crazy for him to turn it down.

Ray would want to do it if he thinks Zacha has something like 40-50 point/two-way play upside, which is a strong possibility if you put him on Hughes' wing.  His career arc, going back to junior is pretty similar to Ryan Johnanson, who got traded for Seth f'n Jones and that was before you had to pay him $8 million a year.  Now imagine how valuable a player like that is getting paid about 3% of the cap.  On the other hand, if he's pretty much what he is now it's not the end of the world and it wouldn't be terrible to retain the maximum of his salary if we just needed to dump him.  And of course, there's always the expansion draft route if necessary to get rid of him.

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5 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Zacha would be betting against otherwise not being an NHL player by the time he's 29.  He's been a disappointment thus far, for sure, but he should be at least an average NHL player for ten years.  So it wouldn't be crazy for him to turn it down.

Ray would want to do it if he thinks Zacha has something like 40-50 point/two-way play upside, which is a strong possibility if you put him on Hughes' wing.  His career arc, going back to junior is pretty similar to Ryan Johnanson, who got traded for Seth f'n Jones and that was before you had to pay him $8 million a year.  Now imagine how valuable a player like that is getting paid about 3% of the cap.  On the other hand, if he's pretty much what he is now it's not the end of the world and it wouldn't be terrible to retain the maximum of his salary if we just needed to dump him.  And of course, there's always the expansion draft route if necessary to get rid of him.

Agree totally, there's almost no reason for Zacha to do it unless he feels he is a total failure. From the team's perspective, I would do it and I wouldn't look back. 

I would, however, change the S in "Almost" to a dollar sign when people complain about how we "paid him for nothing" if he was released, or "paid him for too long" by giving him 7 years. 

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37 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Zacha would be betting against otherwise not being an NHL player by the time he's 29.  He's been a disappointment thus far, for sure, but he should be at least an average NHL player for ten years.  So it wouldn't be crazy for him to turn it down.

Ray would want to do it if he thinks Zacha has something like 40-50 point/two-way play upside, which is a strong possibility if you put him on Hughes' wing.  His career arc, going back to junior is pretty similar to Ryan Johnanson, who got traded for Seth f'n Jones and that was before you had to pay him $8 million a year.  Now imagine how valuable a player like that is getting paid about 3% of the cap.  On the other hand, if he's pretty much what he is now it's not the end of the world and it wouldn't be terrible to retain the maximum of his salary if we just needed to dump him.  And of course, there's always the expansion draft route if necessary to get rid of him.

You aren’t wrong, and I did consider all that.... still, if I were Zacha and I had seven years of security locked in without playing another shift staring me in the face, it would be very tempting.

Edited by MadDog2020

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Clarkson and a 4th to Toronto for Sparks

okay what in the literal fvck is Toronto doing? 

 

 

Edited by jagknife

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4 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Clarkson and a 4th to Toronto for Sparks

okay what in the literal fvck is Toronto doing? 

 

 

Clearing $4.5m in cap space, no?

LOL no, ADDING it. 

Edited by mfitz804

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

Clearing $4.5m in cap space, no?

LOL no, ADDING it. 

So here’s something I don’t understand about the salary cap thing. They can dump both Clarkson and Horton on LTIR and save about $10m on the cap, if they keep trading for LTIR players will they keep getting more and more cap relief?

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4 minutes ago, jagknife said:

So here’s something I don’t understand about the salary cap thing. They can dump both Clarkson and Horton on LTIR and save about $10m on the cap, if they keep trading for LTIR players will they keep getting more and more cap relief?

I don’t understand it either. 

But I really don’t understand adding Clarkson when you are trying to sign Marner. Unless they aren’t. 

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I get it now. They can exceed the cap by a certain amount if they LTIR guys. 

This actually gives more space for Marner. 

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5 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

All things being equal- If Zacha turned down seven years of security given what he’s accomplished thus far in his career- I’d have to question his sanity. I’d also have to question Ray’s sanity if he offered Zacha seven years.

Right!

 hell no to anything 7 years with Zacha.

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10 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I fvcking hate the salary cap lol. 

Still better than baseball, where small market teams have almost no chance. Even with all the loopholes. 

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6 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Still better than baseball, where small market teams have almost no chance. Even with all the loopholes. 

I guess I have to agree with that, since I think technically, we are closer to small market than big market at the moment. 

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The LTIR loophole makes me wonder why the fvck teams don’t abuse it more often? 

Instead of all the major cap penalties to the Canucks, can’t luongo just... say ouchie?

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7 minutes ago, MB3 said:

The LTIR loophole makes me wonder why the fvck teams don’t abuse it more often? 

Instead of all the major cap penalties to the Canucks, can’t luongo just... say ouchie?

That’s what I don’t get. It’s too fraught with the opportunity for fraud. Yet it isn’t fraud, so why not use it?

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1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

I fvcking hate the salary cap lol. 

salary cap is the reason we got many players on the cheap and will get more. And the reason the Rangers can't just...get EVERYONE.

So you better start loving it pal lol

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Should I be the first to use the dreaded word(well, phrase)?  Isn't this clear cap circumvention?  Acquiring injured players in order to LTIR them?  Have we done something this blatant?  Maybe Matvichuk or some of the older guys that Lou somehow jettisoned, but still. 

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20 minutes ago, RizzMB30 said:

Should I be the first to use the dreaded word(well, phrase)?  Isn't this clear cap circumvention?  Acquiring injured players in order to LTIR them?  Have we done something this blatant?  Maybe Matvichuk or some of the older guys that Lou somehow jettisoned, but still. 

not really cause Clarkson won't even be playing and won't count against the cap.

They "basically" just bought a 4th round pick on the surface but as its been explained in those tweets it's really about prepping to start the season without marner

Edited by SterioDesign

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8 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

salary cap is the reason we got many players on the cheap and will get more. And the reason the Rangers can't just...get EVERYONE.

So you better start loving it pal lol

I know, I know. 

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9 hours ago, RizzMB30 said:

Should I be the first to use the dreaded word(well, phrase)?  Isn't this clear cap circumvention?  Acquiring injured players in order to LTIR them?  Have we done something this blatant?  Maybe Matvichuk or some of the older guys that Lou somehow jettisoned, but still. 

We did the same when we acquired Marc Savard if I remember correctly. 

Also the NHL is very selective about what they consider circumvention. 

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Not a huge adv stats person so someone who is can tear this article apart for us.

This is an interesting read about the Devils PK how Zacha is one of the best PK forwards in the league. Looks like PZ may be move valuable than you think fitzy!

https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/7/22/20702094/pavel-zacha-new-jersey-devils-forwards-amazing-penalty-kill-2018-19

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10 minutes ago, Crisis said:

Not a huge adv stats person so someone who is can tear this article apart for us.

This is an interesting read about the Devils PK how Zacha is one of the best PK forwards in the league. Looks like PZ may be move valuable than you think fitzy!

https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/7/22/20702094/pavel-zacha-new-jersey-devils-forwards-amazing-penalty-kill-2018-19

Sometimes its all about finding your niche. Its clear that Zacha is excellent defensively. If he can start using his body more and put up some more points he can be a very valuable Zajac type player. Its not necessarily what you want at 6 overall but it's the kind of player you need depending how he develops. 

I would love to see him get some time at LW with Hughes and maybe Bratt in the preseason to see how his size and shot work with their skill and speed. 

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9 minutes ago, Crisis said:

Not a huge adv stats person so someone who is can tear this article apart for us.

This is an interesting read about the Devils PK how Zacha is one of the best PK forwards in the league. Looks like PZ may be move valuable than you think fitzy!

https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/7/22/20702094/pavel-zacha-new-jersey-devils-forwards-amazing-penalty-kill-2018-19

Only if you use those stupid stats I really don't understand. I mean, if I am reading some of those stats right, Kevin fvcking Rooney is 3rd and 5th in the NHL in those categories. If that doesn't show those stats to be unworthy of consideration, I don't know what does. 

I enjoyed the quote "Yes, even Zacha was creating a relatively high level of offense in shorthanded situations.".

He had 2 goals and 1 assist short handed. That's not a "relatively high level of offense".

If you go by stuff like "goals", "assists", and "living up to your potential as a 6th overall pick", he still sucks. 

;) 

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11 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I guess I have to agree with that, since I think technically, we are closer to small market than big market at the moment

I don't agree with the bolded.  I think Shero knows that if he re-signs Hall (I still think that happens) and most of the kids play up to what we hope, that this team will see that seemingly endless cap space get eaten up in a hurry.  We already know which "cheap" labor guys will be getting nice raises after this year. 

Basically when I think small market, I think of a team that either doesn't have the money to spend, or has more of it than people believe, but they choose not to spend.  I think the Devils could spend to the cap if they really wanted to and I don't think ownership would have an issue with that (they let Lou run amok with plenty of costly signings at the end), but Shero is trying to be smart about building a sustainable winner while avoiding getting into premature cap trouble for as long as he can.  He's doing his best to try to have money to be able to pay the youngins (and possibility be able to pay guys like Palms, who clearly will be making more than he's making now when he signs his next deal) and still have some left over to go UFA, if some guys don't work out.  I'm fine with him trying to hang onto this flexibility for as long as possible. 

4 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

We did the same when we acquired Marc Savard if I remember correctly. 

Also the NHL is very selective about what they consider circumvention. 

They have been when it comes to the Devils, heh heh.   

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