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2019 Offseason Thread

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36 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Pretty good article by Todd Cordell about the RFAs and UFAs on the Devils currently up for deals:

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=98995

Here's where I stand:

DUMP:  Quenneville, Noesen, Stafford, Gabriel.  Q is an NHL zilch, Noesen had his chance to build off last season, Gabriel is a complete clown, and whenever Stafford plays, it's because a lot of other sh!t went horribly wrong...I just can't excited about an old warm body who occasionally has a shootout moment.  Just move on from these four.

KEEP (short-term):  Mueller, Agostino, Yakovlev, Carrick (none really excite, and with the three defensemen listed, not like the Devils are rife with defensive depth at the moment...I say keep of the three D, maybe keep two). 

KEEP (longer-term):  Butcher and Zacha.  I think Zacha can start to find success here, as he really shouldn't have to try to provide 2C offense anymore.  If he becomes a well-rounded 40-45 point "Unsung Hero" type who can play effectively in a lot of situations, I'll take it.  I still like Butch, think he can improve. 

I agree with all of the above. Well done. 

2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I agree though, I'm not opposed to 3-4 years at about $2.5 - 2.9 million per for Zacha.  It's definitely a risk and it will be infuriating if there's yet another series of starts and stops before he starts to figure things again next year, but sometimes you take a shot with a younger player like this and hope he's either solid value or a real bargain by the end of his deal.  

I am a known non-fan of Zacha, but even I would take him on a 4 year deal at $2.5-2.9m. That's nothing, in the grand scheme, and I think he'll give you that value if he continues along the path he was on the last couple months of the season. 

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2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Damn, seems like you're aiming pretty high...in the last 6 seasons, Johansen's put up 373 points in 485 GP.  Over the last four seasons, he's been steady goal-wise...about 14-15 per 82 GP.  That I can see Zacha reaching...maybe even exceeding.  Can't see him coming close to Johansen's assist pace (about 46 per 82 GP)...or ever becoming a consistent 60+ point guy.  And if Hughes is a Devils draftee and storms in here, don't see Zacha getting anywhere near Johansen's minutes either (Johansen led forwards in that category for the Preds).  Zacha should get 3C minutes unless Hughes or Hischier get hurt...and if Zajac's outplaying Zacha, that could get even murkier.   

I agree though, I'm not opposed to 3-4 years at about $2.5 - 2.9 million per for Zacha.  It's definitely a risk and it will be infuriating if there's yet another series of starts and stops before he starts to figure things again next year, but sometimes you take a shot with a younger player like this and hope he's either solid value or a real bargain by the end of his deal.  But for me, I have his ceiling locked in at a 3C.  Anything beyond that just seems like fool's gold.

Johansen seems to have had a similar career arc to Zacha production-wise and they are kind of similar players and almost exactly the same size.  The big difference is Johansen’s  NHL career took off in the equivalent of this season for Zacha.

Don’t want to oversell the possibility.  But given all the circumstances, there’s pretty much no downside in signing him to the deal I suggested while there’s an enormous upside.

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Just now, Daniel said:

Johansen seems to have had a similar career arc to Zacha production-wise and they are kind of similar players and almost exactly the same size.  The big difference is Johansen’s  NHL career took off in the equivalent of this season for Zacha.

Don’t want to oversell the possibility.  But given all the circumstances, there’s pretty much no downside in signing him to the deal I suggested while there’s an enormous upside.

Def agree on the contract and having SOME upside.

But with the trajectory of how we envision the center position playing out, I'm not so sure Zacha ever gets the kind of chance that Johansen did.  His future as a Devil (Bottom-6) seems pretty locked in now, barring the worst (Nico and/or Hughes getting hurt or never living up to what most think they will be). 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Pretty good article by Todd Cordell about the RFAs and UFAs on the Devils currently up for deals:

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=98995

Here's where I stand:

DUMP:  Quenneville, Noesen, Stafford, Gabriel.  Q is an NHL zilch, Noesen had his chance to build off last season, Gabriel is a complete clown, and whenever Stafford plays, it's because a lot of other sh!t went horribly wrong...I just can't excited about an old warm body who occasionally has a shootout moment.  Just move on from these four.

KEEP (short-term):  Mueller, Agostino, Yakovlev, Carrick (none really excite, and with the three defensemen listed, not like the Devils are rife with defensive depth at the moment...I say keep of the three D, maybe keep two). 

KEEP (longer-term):  Butcher and Zacha.  I think Zacha can start to find success here, as he really shouldn't have to try to provide 2C offense anymore.  If he becomes a well-rounded 40-45 point "Unsung Hero" type who can play effectively in a lot of situations, I'll take it.  I still like Butch, think he can improve. 

I pretty much agree with all of this except Zacha.  I say keep him but short term.

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12 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Def agree on the contract and having SOME upside.

But with the trajectory of how we envision the center position playing out, I'm not so sure Zacha ever gets the kind of chance that Johansen did.  His future as a Devil (Bottom-6) seems pretty locked in now, barring the worst (Nico and/or Hughes getting hurt or never living up to what most think they will be). 

If he turns into a better player, he’ll produce no matter what line you put him on.  And if it’s on the wing, so be it.  If you can sign someone who is 22 to a long term deal at less than the average per player cap hit who can tally more than 50 points a season and who plays a well rounded game, that’s a huge win.  And even if he can’t consistently break 40 points, it’s no worse than having an underachieving Marcus Johanson on the team for two seasons.  

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

If he turns into a better player, he’ll produce no matter what line you put him on.  And if it’s on the wing, so be it.  If you can sign someone who is 22 to a long term deal at less than the average per player cap hit who can tally more than 50 points a season and who plays a well rounded game, that’s a huge win.  And even if he can’t consistently break 40 points, it’s no worse than having an underachieving Marcus Johanson on the team for two seasons.  

I think people here have mentioned several times to try Zacha at wing to take the pressures of center off him and see if he can develop a better offensive game. I am a Zacha apologist so, with that in mind, I am STILL hoping the end of last season was just the beginning of what he can do offensively.

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I've seen enough of dacha to know we got screwed with picking him at 6th or where ever it was. Hopefully ray can use him in a package and move on

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13 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

I've seen enough of dacha to know we got screwed with picking him at 6th or where ever it was. Hopefully ray can use him in a package and move on

Just because he’s not likely to rack up glamour numbers doesn’t mean he can’t be a useful player in other ways...we’re past the point of lamenting where he was picked.  Sure, in a perfect world, a sixth-overall pick who’s a forward might have more sex appeal, but maybe the guy can still become a solid player.  They don’t all become stars and superstars.

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4 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I think people here have mentioned several times to try Zacha at wing to take the pressures of center off him and see if he can develop a better offensive game. I am a Zacha apologist so, with that in mind, I am STILL hoping the end of last season was just the beginning of what he can do offensively.

Still don’t like this idea. I don’t think he’s ever going to put up big offensive numbers, so we might as well keep him at C and at least get some solid defense out of him. 

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4 hours ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

I've seen enough of dacha to know we got screwed with picking him at 6th or where ever it was. Hopefully ray can use him in a package and move on

Selling low on a young player is always the best move, I agree. I wish Lou traded Larsson after his tough season too, we could’ve gotten a 3rd round pick instead of this skater who we have to pay a ton of money to this summer. 

We should avoid a similar situation with Zacha. Think of the cap ramifications. 

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7 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Still don’t like this idea. I don’t think he’s ever going to put up big offensive numbers, so we might as well keep him at C and at least get some solid defense out of him. 

He’s got one of the best shots on the team. If he sees some space on the ice and uses his shot more often, he can be a very productive player.

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All it took for Zacha to put up points was 1/2 a season of garbage time meaningless games. Same for Cory to actually win a game. I have no faith either has truly turned the corner. 

 

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31 minutes ago, titans04 said:

All it took for Zacha to put up points was 1/2 a season of garbage time meaningless games. Same for Cory to actually win a game. I have no faith either has truly turned the corner. 

 

Zacha scored a huge goal that sent us to the playoffs last year. That was neither a “Garbage time goal” nor a “meaningless game” 

He’s 21 years old, dude. Not everyone is Nico. 

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33 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Zacha scored a huge goal that sent us to the playoffs last year. That was neither a “Garbage time goal” nor a “meaningless game” 

He’s 21 years old, dude. Not everyone is Nico. 

22 actually. 

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8 hours ago, MB3 said:

I wish Lou traded Larsson after his tough season too, we could’ve gotten a 3rd round pick instead of this skater who we have to pay a ton of money to this summer. 

He can’t stay healthy either, don’t forget that part. 

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Posted (edited)

Not that we'd even be in the market, but - hardest pass imaginable on Malkin.

7 hours ago, MB3 said:

Zacha scored a huge goal that sent us to the playoffs last year. That was neither a “Garbage time goal” nor a “meaningless game” 

He’s 21 years old, dude. Not everyone is Nico. 

I don't want to get into another Zacha debate because ultimately you're right in that he does have time to develop, but.. just throwing his age out there is a little deceiving.

He's played over 200 NHL games - at a certain point what you see is what you get.  I have doubts he'll ever take that 'next step' to become an actual top-6 guy.

But I would give him a 2-3 "prove you deserve more" type deal and see what happens.  Certainly wouldn't entertain trading him for scraps yet.

Edited by Devilsfan118
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Not that we'd even be in the market, but - hardest pass imaginable on Malkin.

I don't want to get into another Zacha debate because ultimately you're right in that he does have time to develop, but.. just throwing his age out there is a little deceiving.

He's played over 200 NHL games - at a certain point what you see is what you get.  I have doubts he'll ever take that 'next step' to become an actual top-6 guy.

But I would give him a 2-3 "prove you deserve more" type deal and see what happens.  Certainly wouldn't entertain trading him for scraps yet.

Yeah agree on the bolded...three years left at a big cap hit ($9.5 million), and he's missed almost 100 games over the last 6 seasons combined...13 years, 852 regular season and 162 playoff games makes one wonder if he's a candidate for an early decline.  Was a -25 this year too...I usually don't pay that much attention to +/-, but it's by far and away the worst on the Pens. 

He did manage 98 points in 2017-18 though...makes one wonder what some team might be willing to give up for him (assuming Malkin is willing to waive his NMC).  You'd be getting his age 33, 34, and 35 years. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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10 hours ago, MB3 said:

Selling low on a young player is always the best move, I agree. I wish Lou traded Larsson after his tough season too, we could’ve gotten a 3rd round pick instead of this skater who we have to pay a ton of money to this summer. 

We should avoid a similar situation with Zacha. Think of the cap ramifications. 

except I never said anything about selling him low.. we've had him for a long enough time to know what we have with him. 

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8 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

If we could somehow get Kessel on the cheap without sacrificing assets needed to land a defenseman.  There's also Letang, but never have been a fan of his.

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I saw Todd Cordell's write up on RFA/UFS and direction, and am surprised about what he wrote on Yak. Like several people here, I thought Yak played well almost every game he was given a chance to play. 

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4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If we could somehow get Kessel on the cheap without sacrificing assets needed to land a defenseman.  There's also Letang, but never have been a fan of his.

I don't want malkin or kessel, no thanks dude.. not saying they aren't good players etc. but I don't want them, if we are going to give up assets there are players out there that will fit our team and needs better. Ray has already brought in enough penguin experiments to this team. 

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If the Rags get Malkin and Kakko in one offseason I’ll fvcking puke. 

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10 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

except I never said anything about selling him low.. we've had him for a long enough time to know what we have with him. 

Yes and no.  It's a little like having a young kid in baseball who seems like he has a chance to be a good starting pitcher, but after a few years you realize that he's simply not cut out to be one...at which point, you make him a reliever...and THEN he finds success. 

It's like I said in a previous post, with Hughes very likely coming aboard (and who is clearly going to get every chance to be the 1C, with Nico almost being more like a 1A-C if all REALLY goes well), Zacha could really do quite well in a less glamorous (and more clearly defined) role.  No guarantees (and of course if Hughes or Nico ever got hurt, everything goes to sh!t), but I think you gotta give Zacha one more year to see how he could do in a situation where everyone involved knows what he'll be doing.

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