Jump to content
Daniel

2019 Offseason Thread

Recommended Posts

I'm sure Ray will "do something."  It will involve bringing in guys who might have scored twenty goals in a season once whose Corsi really impressed some twitter randos and who Dellows says is a better value per cap dollar spent than Panarin. 

But, man any day that cap space is going to lace up some skates and really win us some games.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CommonDreads said:

The Rangers trade for Jacob Trouba, a top 4 defenseman: An astute move that deserves praise

Shero trades for Sami Vatanen, a top 4 defenseman: Ray has a cargo cult understanding of what it takes to build a winner.

Step off the ledge, bud.

Jacob Trouba instantly becomes our best defenseman by a longshot.  Vatanen is a guy who can't stay healthy and is one dimensional. 

Ray sees some  depth guys on teams that win and think that's how the Devils will win.  Hence bringing in a third liner like Kevin Labanc instead of an impact player.  That's what's going to happen.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Jacob Trouba instantly becomes our best defenseman by a longshot.  Vatanen is a guy who can't stay healthy and is one dimensional. 

Ray sees some  depth guys on teams that win and think that's how the Devils will win.  Hence bringing in a third liner like Kevin Labanc instead of an impact player.  That's what's going to happen.

Sami Vatanen instantly became our best defenseman when we traded for him, so it's different...how?

Wasn't aware Hall was a depth guy and not an impact player. Shero has made his big impact player trade and has worked to supplement pieces around him. He stole Palmieri and Palms is arguably a 1st line NHL forward who's capable of scoring 30 goals, that's an impact player. Johansson, while it didn't work out here, is a 2nd line forward on most teams, that's an impact player. You can't selectively whine and twist around history to fit your narrative when our rivals acquire good players. That's how pro sports works, the teams you dislike are going to get good players from time to time.

Edited by CommonDreads
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Jacob Trouba instantly becomes our best defenseman by a longshot.  Vatanen is a guy who can't stay healthy and is one dimensional. 

Ray sees some  depth guys on teams that win and think that's how the Devils will win.  Hence bringing in a third liner like Kevin Labanc instead of an impact player.  That's what's going to happen.

I don’t know how often you listened to WFAN back in the day, but you sound like Jerome from Manhattan.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Like I said before, the return for Hall is going to be underwhelming no matter when and if we trade him.  I still say he is worth a 1st to most teams.

Vats may have some value.  Palms probably has a lot.  Yeah it would suck to trade away ~30 goals a season but he aren't winning cups with him being on the top line.

I understand is as fans have a strong tendency to over value our own players, but if Shero only gets a first for Hall, a guy one year removed from being the MVP of the league and pulling a team to the playoffs damn near single handedly, then Shero failed.

We also have missed the playoffs three out of four seasons. While he has rebuilt our farm system from the roster equivalent of a fourth world country, not fielding a team that can finish in the top 20, let alone in the post season outside of the aforementioned season, will also be an issue.

I alluded to it yesterday after my initial “fvck fvck fvck” post when the deal was announced, he’s got the next two weeks to show progress. If we stand pat at the draft while others make moves, and/or 1 July ends with nothing to show, i’m going to be upset.

not like a keyboard warrior being upset matters but it might make me feel better for exactly 6.9 seconds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I understand is as fans have a strong tendency to over value our own players, but if Shero only gets a first for Hall, a guy one year removed from being the MVP of the league and pulling a team to the playoffs damn near single handedly, then Shero failed.

We also have missed the playoffs three out of four seasons. While he has rebuilt our farm system from the roster equivalent of a fourth world country, not fielding a team that can finish in the top 20, let alone in the post season outside of the aforementioned season, will also be an issue.

I alluded to it yesterday after my initial “fvck fvck fvck” post when the deal was announced, he’s got the next two weeks to show progress. If we stand pat at the draft while others make moves, and/or 1 July ends with nothing to show, i’m going to be upset.

not like a keyboard warrior being upset matters but it might make me feel better for exactly 6.9 seconds

It might be a first and some prospect or middling to lower roster player.  Or some package that involves a first, a middling prospect, and maybe a 3rd rounder.

I am not 100% sure of the return but it will be underwhelming.  By how much is yet to be seen but the guy is 1 season removed from UFA and is coming off a season where he was out for more than half due to injury.  He isn't going to command a huge haul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I think that's spot on.  Kreider's still young enough to be considered a core piece, and Namestikov doesn't have any real ties to the team.  I wonder what Vesey brings back in a trade after 3 consistent, yet pretty uninspiring seasons.  He improved a little bit this year, but I'm not sure that he ever becomes a 50 point player.  He's young enough where he could put together a 25-25 season I suppose, but he seems like he's a 3rd line guy.  Best thing he's got going for him is his age and his durability.

Supposedly, Buffalo is interested in Vesey.  They have the 31st, but the Rangers would have to add to it, to get it.  They do not have a 2nd, but have a 3rd.  I think a 3rd is too little, so maybe a 2nd next year?  Maybe Vesey and something (the Stars 2nd, which is 49th) for the 31st?  Namestnikov likely moved in a deal similar to Grabner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

"SHARU UR CHEEP WAKE UP !!!"

Wait I'm confused - he's an RFA isn't he?

Why the hell does he have a say where he goes?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I understand is as fans have a strong tendency to over value our own players, but if Shero only gets a first for Hall, a guy one year removed from being the MVP of the league and pulling a team to the playoffs damn near single handedly, then Shero failed.

We also have missed the playoffs three out of four seasons. While he has rebuilt our farm system from the roster equivalent of a fourth world country, not fielding a team that can finish in the top 20, let alone in the post season outside of the aforementioned season, will also be an issue.

I alluded to it yesterday after my initial “fvck fvck fvck” post when the deal was announced, he’s got the next two weeks to show progress. If we stand pat at the draft while others make moves, and/or 1 July ends with nothing to show, i’m going to be upset.

not like a keyboard warrior being upset matters but it might make me feel better for exactly 6.9 seconds

If that happens, Ray needs to be fired immediately, but of course he won't since our owners really really love that cap space. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Devilsfan118 said:

Wait I'm confused - he's an RFA isn't he?

Why the hell does he have a say where he goes?

Yeah I didn't understand this either..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, devlman said:

When they get Panarin on JULY 2nd, lets have this conversation. You guys have such little faith. Relax and trust in Ray.

It's not even little faith, they jumped that line a long time ago. These people are neurotic.

Half the Devils fanbase is going nuts off a prediction of stuff they themselves are insisting is going to happen between July 2019 and July 2020, and they're losing their sh!t over it.

It's neurotic behavior. Take a chill pill guys, this is no way to support a team. The draft hasn't even happened yet, free agency is weeks away, RELAX.

Edited by DJ Eco
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If that happens, Ray needs to be fired immediately, but of course he won't since our owners really really love that cap space. 

OK, what's your facebook handle and what the hell have you done with Daniel?! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

2) I think there is some overreactions going on here, but I don't think it is wrong to be concerned.  I actually like how the Rangers are rebuilding more than how the Devils are doing it.  They are trading top-end talent (Zucc, Hayes, etc) on their team and getting first rounders for them.  We, on the other hand, are trading guys like Boyle, Lovejoy and MoJo and appropriately getting 2nd and 3rd's for them.  If the Devils want to speed up the process, we gotta be in the mentality of giving up guys of value and really work on getting first rounders.  That means going forward anyone not named Smith, Hischier and Hughes are available.

Other than Palmieri, we simply haven't had those caliber pieces to flip, so any comparison between the two that veers toward Shero-criticism is getting upset over an apples-to-oranges view of the two teams.

Not one Devils player reached the points total Kevin Hayes did last season, but people are getting upset over returns Gorton was able to turn Hayes into being better than Shero's returns? That's just dumb.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

OK, what's your facebook handle and what the hell have you done with Daniel?! 

When Ray "weaponizes" his cap space for Tyler Myers and Kevin Labanc don't say I didn't tell you so.  Oooh I forgot, maybe we'll even get Jake Gardiner.  That way Ray can trade Ty Smith for Alex Kilorn or maybe Tyler Johnson if we're really, really lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DJ Eco said:

Other than Palmieri, we simply haven't had those caliber pieces to flip, so any comparison between the two that veers toward Shero-criticism is getting upset over an apples-to-oranges view of the two teams.

Not one Devils player reached the points total Kevin Hayes did last season, but people are getting upset over returns Gorton was able to turn Hayes into being better than Shero's returns? That's just dumb.

We have Vats as well who is currently our top D-man (unfortunately).

Going forward our core is simply Smith, Hischier and Hughes/Kakko.  Everyone else is expendable.  We can't be afraid to trade players like Vats, Hall and Palms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DevsMan84 said:

We have Vats as well who is currently our top D-man (unfortunately).

Going forward our core is simply Smith, Hischier and Hughes/Kakko.  Everyone else is expendable.  We can't be afraid to trade players like Vats, Hall and Palms.

Depressing, but accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jagknife said:

Watch, Point signs for 4x$4m. People will really lose their minds

I would not at all be surprised if they lock him up to a 8 x 7 type deal or something similar.

Taxes, brah.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for shiggles, here's the Rags core (stolen from a comment on reddit):

Jacob Trouba (25)

Brady Skjei (25)

Pavel Buchnevich (24)

Brendan Lemieux (23)

Alex Georgiev (23)

Igor Sheterkin (23)

Adam Fox (21)

Brett Howden (21)

Libor Hajek (21)

Ryan Lindgren (21)

Lias Andersson (20)

Filip Chytil (19)

Vitaly Kravtsov (19)

K'Andre Miller (19)

Nils Lundkvist (18)

Kaapo Kakko (18)

Lots of unproven talent, obviously.  That goes without saying.  But holy sh!t are they stockpiling talent.

Compare it to ours and its damn close if not clearly better.. and we've had two lottery wins.

Edited by Devilsfan118

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CMONPETEYD said:

I can't blame anyones negativity at this point.....  for the last year and a half or so the moves that have been made have been uninspiring at best while we see other teams make nice smart moves.  If you want to point at this one deal i think thats misguided in some sense, but I think its the opportunities passing us by that probably hurt more....

Could we have paid the same price for Skinner - probably!

How about O'Reilly?  Sure - didn't seem too high....

Now Trouba - Price was reasonable...

  1. Skinner - fair.
  2. O'Reilly - if Colorado wanted a 1st in 2019, then that was obviously a non-starter for the Devils. We can't say "Yeah, but what if they would be okay with a 1st in 2020", because we can go down any number of rabbit-holes with that kind of logic. If they really wanted a 1st in 2019, we couldn't get O'Reilly.
  3. Trouba - same as the above; if Winnipeg wants a 1st round pick in 2019 that they gave away, because they know it's a deep 1st round, then we're completely out of the running; non-starter.

If people want to pick out every good trade leaguewide made the previous year, and say the Devils should've been in on them, the logic really clearly says that no we could not. We simply could not match most of these packages, because we could not provide a 1st in 2019. Offering a 1st in 2020 instead brings the value of our return down, and everyone who can offer a 1st is instantly ahead of us in the running. It's really that simple.

 

3 hours ago, CMONPETEYD said:

At some point soon - and I mean soon (2-3 months), Ray better do something more than an over reaction to missing the bus on some of these other trades.  

Agreed, and I think every rational fan agrees with that timeline. 2018-2019 was obviously the year of non-moves and no-trades to set up for a big offseason in summer 2019. We're here, and I think until the week before the season starts is how long we'll need to fully evaluate the job Shero is doing. There are fans calling for his firing after this Rangers trade, the hysteria I'm seeing is ridiculous, when did we become Montreal?

Edited by DJ Eco
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Just for shiggles, here's the Rags core (stolen from a comment on reddit):

Jacob Trouba (25)

Brady Skjei (25)

Pavel Buchnevich (24)

Brendan Lemieux (23)

Alex Georgiev (23)

Igor Sheterkin (23)

Adam Fox (21)

Brett Howden (21)

Libor Hajek (21)

Ryan Lindgren (21)

Lias Andersson (20)

Filip Chytil (19)

Vitaly Kravtsov (19)

K'Andre Miller (19)

Nils Lundkvist (18)

Kaapo Kakko (18)

Lots of unproven talent, obviously.  That goes without saying.  But holy sh!t are they stockpiling talent.

Compare it to ours and its damn close if not clearly better.. and we've had two lottery wins.

Do people really think like 3/4 of that list will be top 6 talent? Is there something special about this list other than a list of some other team's prospects? Sure, a bunch of them *may* all become good... just like any team...

Edited by DJ Eco
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jagknife said:

I understand is as fans have a strong tendency to over value our own players, but if Shero only gets a first for Hall, a guy one year removed from being the MVP of the league and pulling a team to the playoffs damn near single handedly, then Shero failed.

We also have missed the playoffs three out of four seasons. While he has rebuilt our farm system from the roster equivalent of a fourth world country, not fielding a team that can finish in the top 20, let alone in the post season outside of the aforementioned season, will also be an issue.

I alluded to it yesterday after my initial “fvck fvck fvck” post when the deal was announced, he’s got the next two weeks to show progress. If we stand pat at the draft while others make moves, and/or 1 July ends with nothing to show, i’m going to be upset.

not like a keyboard warrior being upset matters but it might make me feel better for exactly 6.9 seconds

No, he's actually got 3-4 months, you need to deprogram yourself from thinking this way, the amount of alarmism and hysteria in Devilsland this offseason is going to give everyone a heart attack. People need to relax.

The amount of infighting I've seen (not referring to you, just in general) BECAUSE THE RANGERS MADE ONE GOOD TRADE is almost unbearable, we're obviously a damaged fanbase at this point.

Edited by DJ Eco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DJ Eco said:

No, he's actually got 3-4 months, you need to deprogram yourself from thinking this way, the amount of alarmism and hysteria in Devilsland this offseason is going to give everyone a heart attack. People need to relax.

No, he's got more like three weeks, and that might be too much time to give him.  This is the offseason he has to make the team significantly better if we're ever going to be relevant.  And it looks like he's going to sit on his hands just like the last two seasons. 

1 minute ago, CommonDreads said:

 

One last team to weaponize our beloved cap space against.  It also doesn't look like the going rate on those second rounders will amount to much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Daniel said:

No, he's got more like three weeks, and that might be too much time to give him.  This is the offseason he has to make the team significantly better if we're ever going to be relevant.  And it looks like he's going to sit on his hands just like the last two seasons. 

You're insane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.