2019 Offseason Thread

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

looking at Tampa's roster and it's absolutely insane... They are a team we should target trying to get a deal cause they won't be able to retain everyone

I mean... their 4th line.... Gourde who scored 22 goals last season and 48 pts....  J.T Miller 47 pts... Killorn 40 pts. 

 

With the exception of maybe Miller, acquiring anyone that Tampa is willing to give you is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

And anyone that brings up Tyler fvcking Johnson, I’d like to remind you that it isn’t 2014 anymore.  

[Daniel]

And just so I’m clear, what I believe this team needs, and what should be obvious to everyone what the team needs, is impact players.  

Tampa’s third and fourth liners are not impact players.  Panarin and Duchene are impact players.  Timo Meier is an impact player on a cap fvcked team.  

Alex Killorn is the same old sh!t that will result in exactly zero more wins.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by Daniel

[MadDog2020]

24 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

looking at Tampa's roster and it's absolutely insane... They are a team we should target trying to get a deal cause they won't be able to retain everyone

I mean... their 4th line.... Gourde who scored 22 goals last season and 48 pts....  J.T Miller 47 pts... Killorn 40 pts. 

 

I still can’t figure out how this roster got fvcking swept in the first round.

[SterioDesign]

59 minutes ago, Daniel said:

And just so I’m clear, what I believe this team needs, and what should be obvious to everyone what the team needs, is impact players.  

Tampa’s third and fourth liners are not impact players.  Panarin and Duchene are impact players.  Timo Meier is an impact player on a cap fvcked team.  

Alex Killorn is the same old sh!t that will result in exactly zero more wins.  

ok well how would you get these impact players. Again, i need you to give me a guarantee. Cause that's how fair you are with Shero if things don't pan out. So tell me what YOU could guarantee. 

How would you get an impact player? Who would you trade? how would you convince them to take OUR money? 

Cause obviously it's easy to say that what this team need is Crosby and McDavid. But how do you get them realistically?

Sorry but you sound like those extreme left snowflakes preaching unrealistic non-sense like everyone should be making at least $20/hrs, that every 80+ genders should have a separate bathroom in any establishment ever, that people shouldnt pay taxes, babies from minority groups should be handed a laptop at birth, that every kid in america should be able to go to Harvart for free, that no one should ever get shot again, that every job ever should be represented equallyy 50/50 per gender, that we should find a cure for cancer tomorrow, that we should end poverty, that everyone in America should have a job and anyone coming in should be handed a blank cheque and a job, etc etc etc Cause yeah... how awesome would that be right? Let's just do it.

But you offer no actual solution on how to get there and you don't understand how unrealistic you sound. Then you just blame wtv president is in office at that time for all those things not being perfect.

Edited June 19, 2019 by SterioDesign

[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

8 hours ago, Daniel said:

"It's been reported"  LOLOLOL.  Whatever that "report" was Dreger walked it back, because the fact of the matter is that Trouba is an RFA without a no trade clause and arbitration rights.  Number 34 overall and Vatanen half-retained is better than what the Rangers offered.  A GM that was building a winner could convince Trouba to sign a long term extension instead of playing literally five miles away.  But Ray is not building a winner, and he knows it.

There is no way Vatanen 50% retained and 34 is better for Winnipeg than Pionk and pick 20. Pionk is a promising young defenseman who the they will control the rights of for several years, Vatanen is a UFA after 1 year that won't want to sign in Winnipeg either. Pick 20 is worth quite a bit more than pick 34, if you wanted to trade up from 34 to 20 you'd probably have to add a pick in the 27-30 range.

[SterioDesign]

53 minutes ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

There is no way Vatanen 50% retained and 34 is better for Winnipeg than Pionk and pick 20. Pionk is a promising young defenseman who the they will control the rights of for several years, Vatanen is a UFA after 1 year that won't want to sign in Winnipeg either. Pick 20 is worth quite a bit more than pick 34, if you wanted to trade up from 34 to 20 you'd probably have to add a pick in the 27-30 range.

Plus Daniel wants an impact player. With the assets we have... I don't really think we can trade for an impact player. It took 4 years to assemble a young NHL roster that's still growing and pretty average... we don't have much assets to trade without taking a step back at some position. Our most valuable asset is Zacha because our top 3 center position are filled so he's expendable. And you wouldn't get an impact player for Zacha straight up... even with a few picks i'm not sure. 

Then we can't trade a dman without getting a better d-man out of it cause we need all the help we can get down there.

i wish Carolina would be willing to trade for Zacha + picks for one of Pesce, Hamilton or Faulk. I guess Ehlers might have been offered though... so if you have a choice of adding elhers or zacha... you obviously go for elhers.

then there's not many players i'd be willing to trade our 2020's first round pick for...

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

12 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Meh, Nico went #1 in a draft where the original "clear" possible #1s (Nico or Nolan) weren't projected for true greatness.  Wasn't like Nico was supposed to be a generational or even elite player...in a lot of other drafts, he doesn't go #1 overall.  But not like he's going to be a disappointment...just the fact that he's been plenty solid as an 18 and 19-year-old is a good sign.  He should have a plenty good career.  I'm happy with him. 

100%, it's a pretty pointless article in reality , it's clear that the writer hasn't really taken into consideration who Nico has had to play with especially over the last season. It says his number are poor but really given the year the team had last year they were decent. 

4 hours ago, Nicomo said:

This really just speaks to how good a run of #1OA picks there was for about a decade. Not so much a knock against Nico. And as much as I love him, I don’t really disagree with their ranking tbh. I might put him ahead of Ekblad, but other than that it looks about right. It’s still obviously very early to really judge him against some of those veterans though. 

Also, Kane is not generational. Only Crosby, Ovi, and McDavid, are. 

Agreed on Kane, you can't have 4 generational players in a generation. Crosbys time will soon be coming to an end and McDavid will pick up the torch (if he hasn't already) as the league's best player. Ovi is a generational scorer of goals for sure. 

Kane is incredible , but at the end of the day is he that much better than Stamkos and Tavares? Not really. 

[glenwo2]

Daniel is making me look smart. 

Tough to do. 

[Derlique]

F**k you Shero for not overpaying Hayes by 1.5 million per year, and 2 years!!!!

[Devilsfan118]

Man, the Flyers added a TON of salary yesterday.

[mfitz804]

3 hours ago, glenwo2 said:

Daniel is making me look smart. 

Tough to do. 

Now that’s funny. 

[vadvlfan]

7 hours ago, Daniel said:

Ray can offer Panarin a lot more money than the Rangers or Florida.  Ray won’t though.  If it comes up, he’ll give the same excuse that he just didn’t want to come here, and we’ll all believe it because we’re suckers.

Should Ray pay bread man Tavares/Karlson  kind of $$?   Maybe so!  Hall's going to get paid (if he signs here). As will Nico. I'd love to see Panarin here, but I think he wants to sign in a sexy place NY/Tinsel town? Maybe Miami? Should he put a limit on his offer?  I'll say Panarin is not going to sign here. Accept this fact my friends.

[Devilsfan118]

Normally I'm the one posting borderline freakout hot takes - I'm enjoying watching someone else do it for a change.  This thread has been a good read over the past few days  

Though truthfully, I'm surprised no one has thrown out the word "entitled" yet.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by Devilsfan118

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

4 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

100%, it's a pretty pointless article in reality , it's clear that the writer hasn't really taken into consideration who Nico has had to play with especially over the last season. It says his number are poor but really given the year the team had last year they were decent. 

Agreed on Kane, you can't have 4 generational players in a generation. Crosbys time will soon be coming to an end and McDavid will pick up the torch (if he hasn't already) as the league's best player. Ovi is a generational scorer of goals for sure. 

Kane is incredible , but at the end of the day is he that much better than Stamkos and Tavares? Not really. 

Nico had a solid 42 points through 54 games last year (a 64-point pace over a full season...about 10 points higher than his career rate to date)...I think that's much closer to the guy we'll see going forward.  Depending on who he's playing with, I think 60-70 points is pretty realistic.  And I'm good with that. 

[CommonDreads]

1 hour ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Man, the Flyers added a TON of salary yesterday.

Since Friday, the Flyers have spent almost $17M on two #4/#5 defensemen and a guy who has only broken 50 points once. I'll hang on to my precious cap space, thank you very much.

People should also be very appreciative of Nico, Nolan not living up to expectations thus far made the Flyers feel obligated to overpay someone to do the job he couldn't do.

Edited June 19, 2019 by CommonDreads

[CMONPETEYD]

21 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

Since Friday, the Flyers have spent almost $17M on two #4/#5 defensemen and a guy who has only broken 50 points once. I'll hang on to my precious cap space, thank you very much.

People should also be very appreciative of Nico, Nolan not living up to expectations thus far made the Flyers feel obligated to overpay someone to do the job he couldn't do.

 

Yes - but this is the time for us to spend the cap space.  Not all of it, but this is not the time to sign the Brian Boyle's & Ben Lovejoy's of the world.  If he brings in 3rd liners to plug top 6 fwd positions, people are going to lose it.

I am giving him some time, but this is the time to start being aggressive, although not stupid

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, Derlique said:

F**k you Shero for not overpaying Hayes by 1.5 million per year, and 2 years!!!!

No, fvck Shero for not being able to win if you don’t give him Malkin and Crosby.  And he barely could pull that off.

fvck Shero for having Jeff Gorton run circles around him.

fvck Shero for promising us he’s going to make the team better, and all he’s going to get is Kevin Labanc while the Rangers get Panarin.

fvck Shero for being Sandy Alderson.

['7']

Daniel has a point. Shero's approach here has been almost a bit too methodical and lacking any sense of urgency and aggression (or creativity). This is actually part of the reason Mike Mac was fired as Jets GM. Where the hell was he when the Rags were robbing Winnipeg blind. He should've been burning up the phone lines and trying anything and everything for a Trouba or something similar. With what our needs are...how the hell did THEY land him. 

Shero has to understand that sometimes you can't slow and steady a rebuild indefinitely by going the long route to fill a huge roster hole (one that perhaps isn't even his fault) because when prospects x, y, and z are ready to give us a solid D and plug that hole.... well that means our O has decayed and injury plagued or left for greener pastures. And now we have another hole. Or our once solid goaltending has collapsed down to earth...who knows. But it can't always be next year especially when you have teams like the Rangers leapfrogging you in urgency and a willingness to spend

And overpaying at times IS OK. Signing a big UFA would help us as we wouldn't be giving up anything from the current roster or any valuable picks. Go out there an overpay for a Panarin or Duchene and make us a truly formidable offense for the near future. Seeing this commitment will likely make Hall very happy. You do have to take chances when going for the Cup and taking chances on elite talent is not a bad thing

The Devils need to be out there selling this team to Panarin like he's about to join the next 80's Oilers or something. This is not a Shattenkirk situation with the "childhood dream". If he'd play for the Rags then he'd play for us. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by '7'

[devlman]

35 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Nico had a solid 42 points through 54 games last year (a 64-point pace over a full season...about 10 points higher than his career rate to date)...I think that's much closer to the guy we'll see going forward.  Depending on who he's playing with, I think 60-70 points is pretty realistic.  And I'm good with that. 

I think he’s a point per game guy eventually. Way too good a skater and elite hockey IQ. Once he realizes how great his wrist shot is he’ll be a ppg player. No reason to think he’ll stop developing at 60 points. Kid just turned 20 and made great strides year 1 to 2.

[devlman]

2 minutes ago, '7' said:

Daniel has a point. Shero's approach here has been almost a bit too methodical and lacking any sense of urgency and aggression (or creativity). This is actually part of the reason Mike Mac was fired as Jets GM. Where the hell was he when the Rags were robbing Winnipeg blind. He should've been burning up the phone lines and trying anything and everything for a Trouba or something similar. With what our needs are...how the hell did THEY land him. 

Shero has to understand that sometimes you can't slow and steady a rebuild indefinitely by going the long route to fill a huge roster hole (one that perhaps isn't even his fault) because when prospects x, y, and z are ready to give us a solid D and plug that hole.... well that means our O has decayed and injury plagued or left for greener pastures. 

And overpaying at times IS OK. Signing a big UFA would help us as we wouldn't be giving up anything from the current roster or any valuable picks. Go out there an overpay for a Panarin or Duchene and make us a truly formidable offense for the near future. Seeing this commitment will likely make Hall very happy. You do have to take chances when going for the Cup and taking chances on elite talent is not a bad thing

You’re equating reckless as the opposite to methodical. I’d take the latter when rebuilding 10/10 times.

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, '7' said:

Daniel has a point. Shero's approach here has been almost a bit too methodical and lacking any sense of urgency and aggression (or creativity). This is actually part of the reason Mike Mac was fired as Jets GM. Where the hell was he when the Rags were robbing Winnipeg blind. He should've been burning up the phone lines and trying anything and everything for a Trouba or something similar. With what our needs are...how the hell did THEY land him. 

Shero has to understand that sometimes you can't slow and steady a rebuild indefinitely by going the long route to fill a huge roster hole (one that perhaps isn't even his fault) because when prospects x, y, and z are ready to give us a solid D and plug that hole.... well that means our O has decayed and injury plagued or left for greener pastures. 

And overpaying at times IS OK. Signing a big UFA would help us as we wouldn't be giving up anything from the current roster or any valuable picks. Go out there an overpay for a Panarin or Duchene and make us a truly formidable offense for the near future. Seeing this commitment will likely make Hall very happy. You do have to take chances when going for the Cup and taking chances on elite talent is not a bad thing

Panarin, Duchene, Marner and Meier’s expected goals per cap dollar spent is sub-optimal per Tyler Dellows’ analysis.  Therefore they aren’t good and have no place on our super analytics based team.

['7']

3 minutes ago, devlman said:

You’re equating reckless as the opposite to methodical. I’d take the latter when rebuilding 10/10 times.

I don't think anything I suggested was reckless. 

Perhaps Shero's approach has been too passive?

Edited June 19, 2019 by '7'

[DevsMan84]

7 hours ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

There is no way Vatanen 50% retained and 34 is better for Winnipeg than Pionk and pick 20. Pionk is a promising young defenseman who the they will control the rights of for several years, Vatanen is a UFA after 1 year that won't want to sign in Winnipeg either. Pick 20 is worth quite a bit more than pick 34, if you wanted to trade up from 34 to 20 you'd probably have to add a pick in the 27-30 range.

FWIW my brother, who is a big Rangers fan, was more than glad to give up Pionk.  He said he sucked this past year and wasn't much more than a 3rd pairing D-man.

[Satans Hockey]

The Rangers have won 1 playoff round since Gorton has been their GM and missed the playoffs 2 of his 4 seasons with those 2 misses coming these past 2 seasons. Sure it's better than what we have done but it's really not that much better. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Satans Hockey

[DevsMan84]

3 minutes ago, devlman said:

You’re equating reckless as the opposite to methodical. I’d take the latter when rebuilding 10/10 times.

I don't think he means for the Devils to be reckless, but I wish Shero was a little more aggressive.  I don't want to hear anymore about how much great cap space we have for the 3rd offseason in a row when all is said and done.  That's just absurd and reeks of either a GM who is unsure of himself or ownership who is outright cheap (I doubt it is the latter since we have not seen evidence of it).

If you give me a choice between how the Rangers are rebuilding versus how the Devils are rebuilding I would take the Rangers ten times out of ten.  Yeah we may not have the same blue chips the Rangers have, but we are not devoid of them either.  Like I have said in previous posts the only players that should be untouchable right now are Smith, Hischier and Hughes/Kakko.  Unfortunately, I think Ray also puts in that group Vats, Palms and possibly even Coleman.  If it ever comes out that Ray considers Coleman a no-go on trades, he should be fired immediately.