2019 Offseason Thread

[NJDfan1711]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Are you an accountant? I have questions about this. He’s literally being paid not to play. I can’t imagine he ends up owing taxes in a whole bunch of different states in that instance. But, I guess it’s possible

I'm not an accountant, but I believe you actually get taxed in the state in which services are rendered.  So if a player plays a game in San Jose, I believe he's paying Cali state tax. 

Whoops, just realized that's what he said.  I was referencing MB3, but yes I believe smelly is correct. 

[smelly]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Are you an accountant? I have questions about this. He’s literally being paid not to play. I can’t imagine he ends up owing taxes in a whole bunch of different states in that instance. But, I guess it’s possible

This is typically how it’s withheld by the teams. Then when they file it gets cleaned up based on domicile, reciprocity rules, and other technical matters. The bottom line is that many athletes do in fact have to file in multiple states. 

[NJDfan1711]

5 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Yeah that seems a little confusing. If I work and live in Jersey and my company sends me to work in Philly for a week, I'm pretty sure I'm not paying Pennsylvania taxes 

FYI, if you work in Philly you are probably paying their non resident tax of 3.41%, good news is though that New Jersey issues a tax credit for that. 

[NJDfan1711]

4 minutes ago, smelly said:

This is typically how it’s withheld by the teams. Then when they file it gets cleaned up based on domicile, reciprocity rules, and other technical matters. The bottom line is that many athletes do in fact have to file in multiple states. 

To add to this, some actually have to file in certain CITIES too. 

Pro athletes' tax returns are quite complicated, but they can afford a competent tax advisor, so it all works out for. 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, NJDfan1711 said:

To add to this, some actually have to file in certain CITIES too. 

Pro athletes' tax returns are quite complicated, but they can afford a competent tax advisor, so it all works out for. 

That’s all well and good, but Clarkson isn’t performing any services anywhere. Are you trying to tell me, he sits at home collecting a check and then hast to file state income taxes in like 20 different states? That can’t be right. 

10 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Yeah that seems a little confusing. If I work and live in Jersey and my company sends me to work in Philly for a week, I'm pretty sure I'm not paying Pennsylvania taxes 

I went to Connecticut for a day to do a deposition once, was I supposed to file a Connecticut state income tax return because I earned that money in Connecticut?

[NJDfan1711]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

That’s all well and good, but Clarkson isn’t performing any services anywhere. Are you trying to tell me, he sits at home collecting a check and then hast to file state income taxes in like 20 different states? That can’t be right. 

I went to Connecticut for a day to do a deposition once, was I supposed to file a Connecticut state income tax return because I earned that money in Connecticut?

RE: point #1, it's income, so, despite how crazy that may sound, I believe that's correct.  The IRS doesn't really care how/why Clarkson (or his agent, more likely) managed to get him a deal where he's paid to do nothing.  

 

RE: point #2: I'm pretty sure this applies to the very wealthy, which would include athletes.  I know it used to be referred to as the "jock tax" in some circles and I think it was meant to include athletes because of their schedules which were not only varying and different, but also public in the sense that the govt knows when and where each team/player is playing, do theoretically they could keep track of what they should be getting, as opposed to you or I making wayyyyy less, and only for one or yep random, and not public, days of the year.

Again, I'm not an expert by any means, but that's my (limited) understanding of it. 

[NJDfan1711]

Edit: I'm sure the nhlpa has some stipulations for tax purposes regarding players on LTIR, or buyouts, etc, so maybe that actually isn't how it works to a tee, but it probably factors in to some degree, in principle anyway.

Edited June 19, 2019 by NJDfan1711

[Neb00rs]

50 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I'm very willing to hear what people think the plausible moves Ray is going to make.  All I can tell you is that it's much more like him to trade for the Jonas Brodins and Collin Millers of the world than to go out and get players that are going to help us compete for a Cup. 

If he's going to weaponize his cap space, go out and fvcking do it, and don't give me a million excuses why we finish in 11th place in the conference at the end of next year, which is what he's done since he's gotten here.

First off, I stand by what I said in my previous post - just want to note that because I think you are attempting to get some conversation started and that deserves some defense.

 

If you're asking me what Ray will  do, which I think is what you're asking. Then I don't know. There are so many things he will do. I certainly think he is willing to do things though. I just think he isn't willing to  make stupid deals or even take certain risks because it isn't so necessary to do so right now.

If you are asking me what he should or could do then well, I don't want Ray to do anything until the draft, as I've said. If a guy like Cam York falls to 26/27, I'd like Ray to trade down and grab him.

If no one is sliding down the draft boards then we can start making some trades on draft day. Like I said, as Ray implied this morning, the phone calls are already made, all that's needed is follow up during the draft.

If I had to list some things Ray could do to make the team better outside of the draft well...there's a lot of players across the NHL to go after. Ray doesn't necessarily need to target someone who is demanding a trade or who is a UFA soon. Additionally if that cap comes in at the [now] rumored low 81.5 million ceiling, a few extra players might be pushed out of certain cities.

If I had to build a Devils team to win now, I'd certainly look at PK Subban, TJ Brodie, Mike Hoffman, Matt Duchene, Nyquist, and even Gostisbehere. 

PK Subban at 30 years old and 9 million dollars is actually a pretty good contract for a win-now Devils team. His contract would be up when Hughes needs a new one and his 30-32 years will be pretty good if not quite what his 27-29 years were. Really, Ray could go after any of those players or ones we didn't see coming. 

Edit: I'd also wouldn't hate the less promising move of going after Puljujarvi. There's no point going into next season with Hughes, Hischier, Zacha, Zajac, and McLeod. Sure such would allow some flexibility in moving players to the wing, but it's best for the Devils to address a need and see Zacha out the door in a package for a winger. I concede McLeod might be trade bait too but he's not worth much at this point and would be an extra piece included in a deal for a veteran.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Neb00rs

[mfitz804]

23 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

RE: point #1, it's income, so, despite how crazy that may sound, I believe that's correct.  The IRS doesn't really care how/why Clarkson (or his agent, more likely) managed to get him a deal where he's paid to do nothing.  

The IRS doesn’t care what states he plays in, they don’t collect State taxes. 

By my review of the “jock tax”, it is imposed if you perform services in the state.. A physical presence seems to be required. I have to believe that Clarkson, who is not entering the state nor performing services, is not subject to jock tax. 

See this article, where state jock tax was determined not to be proper where a player was injured and did not travel to the state in question. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/05/01/pro-athlete-jock-tax-is-struck-down/amp/

EDIT: Article is regarding a CITY jock tax, not state. Analysis is the same. 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by mfitz804

[Derlique]

8 hours ago, Daniel said:

No, fvck Shero for not being able to win if you don’t give him Malkin and Crosby.  And he barely could pull that off.

Shero and the Pens were torpedoed by Fluery in a couple of playoff seasons. Two of the reasons he got canned was because he stuck with Fleury and Bylsma. Fleury's play the last 3 years shows he was correct in that assessment, but I won't defend him for Bylsma. 

fvck Shero for having Jeff Gorton run circles around him.

I don't recall Adam Fox specifically requesting to play in NJ OR NY. Oh yeah that's right. He only wanted to go to NY. 

It's been reported that Trouba would only re-sign in a few spots- NY being one of them. It sucks, but how the hell are you blaming Shero here? Once you admit the Rangers have competitive advantages over us, it makes it easier to cope with sh!t like this. I wanted Trouba too, but I'm not bent out of shape over it. 

fvck Shero for promising us he’s going to make the team better, and all he’s going to get is Kevin Labanc while the Rangers get Panarin.

I'm growing a little impatient too, and will certainly be upset if Shero doesn't make a splash. For the record, I would be happy if Labanc was the big forward move. We absolutely need a top 4 LD

fvck Shero for being Sandy Alderson.

 

[mfitz804]

This article (2013) says the league pays the jock tax as part of the collective bargaining agreement anyway. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/sports/athletes-question-fairness-of-tennessees-jock-tax.amp.html

 

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, Derlique said:

 

The Rangers at least gave up something relatively significant for Fox, so I didn’t sweat that at all.  Otherwise, Trouba’s only connection to NY so far as I know is that he’s friends with Skjei.  If Shero were putting together a special team, I don’t see how the difference of a few miles in geography would prove to be some difference maker.  

And if our big forward move is Kevin fvcking LaBanc, there’s going to be a bonfire of all my Devils sh!t in the backyard.  More cap space than anyone, the cap being lower than expected, several teams in cap hell, and a star player who told your GM “more talent,” and all you come away with is fvcking Kevin LaBanc?  Do you enjoy losing?  Do you secretly like Ranger Cup parades?  Does Ray Shero have compromising pictures?

[Derlique]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

The Rangers at least gave up something relatively significant for Fox, so I didn’t sweat that at all.  Otherwise, Trouba’s only connection to NY so far as I know is that he’s friends with Skjei.  If Shero were putting together a special team, I don’t see how the difference of a few miles in geography would prove to be some difference maker.  

And if our big forward move is Kevin fvcking LaBanc, there’s going to be a bonfire of all my Devils sh!t in the backyard.  More cap space than anyone, the cap being lower than expected, several teams in cap hell, and a star player who told your GM “more talent,” and all you come away with is fvcking Kevin LaBanc?  Do you enjoy losing?  Do you secretly like Ranger Cup parades?  Does Ray Shero have compromising pictures?

Because people generally want to play in NY and don't really think twice about NJ. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Players around the league land at the Newark Airport, drive in the sh!tty parts of NJ to their hotel, and play a game in Newark to a crowd that averages 14k. They see the worst parts of the state, and unless it's a rivalry game, or the team is good (it largely hasn't in the last 7 years), the atmosphere is pretty bland. Obviously there is a ton more to NJ than what is described above but I bet that's what the average visiting player sees. 

Labanc is 23, and hit 56 points with with just 14 minutes of time on ice. He is also excellent on the PP, which is something this team needs. He is a clear top 6 forward

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, Derlique said:

Because people generally want to play in NY and don't really think twice about NJ. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Players around the league land at the Newark Airport, drive in the sh!tty parts of NJ to their hotel, and play a game in Newark to a crowd that averages 14k. They see the worst parts of the state, and unless it's a rivalry game, or the team is good (it largely hasn't in the last 7 years), the atmosphere is pretty bland. Obviously there is a ton more to NJ than what is described above but I bet that's what the average visiting player sees. 

Labanc is 23, and hit 56 points with with just 14 minutes of time on ice. He is also excellent on the PP, which is something this team needs. He is a clear top 6 forward

I’ve mentioned it before, but for a long time no one wanted to play for Golden State because Oakland was and still is a bona fide sh!thole.  They built a winner and everyone then wanted to play there.  It’s not worth belaboring the point further, but ceding talent to the Rangers because they’re New York should get you fired, but this organization rewards failure because it’s cheaper, I’m sorry, I mean “efficient.”

Kevin LaBanc is a guy who gets points playing on a team filled with impact players.  He’s not what this team needs.  You know what this team needs, Timo Meier.  Offer sheet him at $8.5 million AAV and see if San Jose can match.  You want a right wing, go sign Joe Pavelski for just cap space.  Thats putting the screws to another team. 

Less talking, more doing Ray.  Time to take off the diapers.

[Guadana]

wooh. spend about 3 hour to read new posts. 

I think shero need some extra steps and make an overpayment to panarin(much better) or duchene(meh). Time to make big moves for big players.

and make 3 offersheets in a row to toronto. all three RFA Kapanen, Johnsson and Marner. They doesnt have enough money to stay with all youg rfa guns in a moment? Push dubas to the wall. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Guadana

[Derlique]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

I’ve mentioned it before, but for a long time no one wanted to play for Golden State because Oakland was and still is a bona fide sh!thole.  They built a winner and everyone then wanted to play there.  It’s not worth belaboring the point further, but ceding talent to the Rangers because they’re New York should get you fired, but this organization rewards failure because it’s cheaper, I’m sorry, I mean “efficient.”

Kevin LaBanc is a guy who gets points playing on a team filled with impact players.  He’s not what this team needs.  You know what this team needs, Timo Meier.  Offer sheet him at $8.5 million AAV and see if San Jose can match.  You want a right wing, go sign Joe Pavelski for just cap space.  Thats putting the screws to another team. 

Less talking, more doing Ray.  Time to take off the diapers.

The point that's maddening is that you are just assuming that a) Shero didn't check in on Trouba or b) the Devils offered a worse package. We haven't even reached the draft, let alone July 1st, and you're already freaking out. Again, if he doesn't do anything of note, I'll be pissed too, but can we at least reassess in two ******* weeks?

[Satans Hockey]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I’ve mentioned it before, but for a long time no one wanted to play for Golden State because Oakland was and still is a bona fide sh!thole.  They built a winner and everyone then wanted to play there. 

If you were selling coming to play for Golden State to ufas I don't think people's opinions on Oakland really mattered to begin with since San Francisco is like a 10 minute drive over a bridge to there anyway. A side note but they are also moving into their new arena in San Francisco next season. 

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

If you were selling coming to play for Golden State to ufas I don't think people's opinions on Oakland really mattered to begin with since San Francisco is like a 10 minute drive over a bridge to there anyway. A side note but they are also moving into their new arena in San Francisco next season. 

Hmm, there are two tunnels and one bridge connecting that mysterious magical island to where our team plays, all of which are a few miles away from where our arena is.  Crazy right?  

Edited June 19, 2019 by Daniel

[Satans Hockey]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

Hmm, there are two tunnels and one bridge connecting that mysterious magical island to where our team plays, all of which are a few miles away from where our arena is.  Crazy right?  

I'm in full agreement about selling NYC being right near our building to ufas. I made a post awhile ago about how I would sell NJ to ufas.

Biggest thing I disagree with you on is that even if Shero had the best pitch and presentation to ufas there are simply going to be numerous players who already had their mind made up and don't want to come here.

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

I'm in full agreement about selling NYC being right near our building to ufas. I made a post awhile ago about how I would sell NJ to ufas.

Biggest thing I disagree with you on is that even if Shero had the best pitch and presentation to ufas there are simply going to be numerous players who already had their mind made up and don't want to come here.

And what I’m saying is that he has to show the world that he’s building a winner.  It’s obvious that the second/third round pick special is a parlor trick that nobody’s buying anymore.  

[Satans Hockey]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

And what I’m saying is that he has to show the world that he’s building a winner.  It’s obvious that the second/third round pick special is a parlor trick that nobody’s buying anymore.  

We'll see what happens, I'm not getting on the fire Shero bandwagon until I see what we are heading into training camp with. If we stand pat and do absolutely nothing I'll be hoping on it as well, I probably won't reach full meltdown mode like you but I definitely understand it.

As a season ticket holder who has sat through some dog sh!t teams in the past 6 out of the last 7 seasons and only seeing 1 playoff game win, not even a series I've become quite sick of all the losing myself and my patience is getting less and less every season. 

[SterioDesign]

45 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The Rangers at least gave up something relatively significant for Fox, so I didn’t sweat that at all.  Otherwise, Trouba’s only connection to NY so far as I know is that he’s friends with Skjei.  If Shero were putting together a special team, I don’t see how the difference of a few miles in geography would prove to be some difference maker.  

And if our big forward move is Kevin fvcking LaBanc, there’s going to be a bonfire of all my Devils sh!t in the backyard.  More cap space than anyone, the cap being lower than expected, several teams in cap hell, and a star player who told your GM “more talent,” and all you come away with is fvcking Kevin LaBanc?  Do you enjoy losing?  Do you secretly like Ranger Cup parades?  Does Ray Shero have compromising pictures?

how about you fvcking wait til something happen til you freak out and just throw bullsh!t around? Like seriously. How about that for a concept? Wait a week after July 1st at least. You're making this place suck so hard right now

[Satans Hockey]

3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

how about you fvcking wait til something happen til you freak out and just throw bullsh!t around? Like seriously. How about that for a concept? Wait a week after July 1st at least. You're making this place suck so hard right now

You've made this place hard to read at times with beating the Lou stuff to death for years and still do from time to time even though he's been gone for years. A few days of him basing Shero isn't that hard to read in comparison lol

Edited June 19, 2019 by Satans Hockey

[MadDog2020]

 

[SterioDesign]

30 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

You've made this place hard to read at times with beating the Lou stuff to death for years and still do from time to time even though he's been gone for years. A few days of him basing Shero isn't that hard to read in comparison lol

i mentioned this before an acknowledged that. But at least i was having discussion and bringing actual facts. Daniel is just going around saying Shero did nothing and will do nothing and that he's not even trying to build a winning team or sh!t like that.