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2019 Offseason Thread

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11 minutes ago, Daniel said:

One year of Vatanen at 50% retained plus 34 for a team that is still looking to compete now is better than 20 overall and a below replacement level defenseman in Pionk. 

Maybe to you it is, but maybe to the Jets its not

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CommonDreads said:

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27006755/part-business-devils-gm-ray-shero-taylor-hall-no-1-pick-more

Shero on the possibility of an offer sheet this summer:

"We all know what the CBA is. There is no gentleman's agreement. Fvck that sh!t. When people say that, it's a lazy narrative, I'll tell you that. Really? Your ownership's competitive, GMs are competitive, and it's the buddy-buddy system? What the fvck is that? It doesn't mean something will or won't happen, but that's been the narrative for years, and I don't know why."

Soo this is interesting.

Do you give up 4 1sts for an offer sheet to Marner that the Leafs cannot match?

Hall - Hughes - Marner

Bratt - Nico - Palms

That's a stupid top-6.

Edited by Devilsfan118
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6 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Soo this is interesting.

Do you give up 4 1sts for an offer sheet to Marner that the Leafs cannot match?

Hall - Hughes - Marner

Bratt - Nico - Palms

That's a stupid top-6.

from what I've been reading and my own personal opinion there is no way we can give up what an offer sheet would cost to acquire Marner. With that said, I think wen should definitely be in contact with Toronto and feel them out, if they think they are not going to be able to re sign him, I think it would only be smart on their behalf to be getting ideas on what they would get in a trade for him. Yes, I know we may not have what they would probably be looking for, but id hope we would obviously have the phones going to see what options could be out there to continue improving this team.

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7 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Soo this is interesting.

Do you give up 4 1sts for an offer sheet to Marner that the Leafs cannot match?

Hall - Hughes - Marner

Bratt - Nico - Palms

That's a stupid top-6.

Depends on where you think that moves your team for the next four years. If those picks put you in the range of 20++ by adding that player I think you absolutely do it. Do the Devils get to that level by adding Marner? - - I don't think so. 

Interesting to see Ray so... Candid in that interview. 

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2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I have a feeling we'll either get a Devils move today, or if not, start hearing a strong rumor.

This feeling is based on absolutely nothing. I just feel like we'll get a "response" to the Trouba deal. These things usually happen between 12-2pm. 

I'm not saying people won't have a meltdown and talk about how sh!tty it is that the Rangers got Trouba and we got whoever, that's a given. 

This is not going to seem like a very reasonable thing to say given that this board has descended into lunacy before the offseason has even started (either that or Daniel is using us for a social experiment) but I think the Devils best move is to do nothing until the draft starts. Let's make our first pick and let some chips fall. I'd want to see who is available late in the first round before deciding what to do with the second round picks. Ray basically explained to Wysh today that he's made all the phone calls already and then if he wants to do something he can come back around to those teams during the draft. 

There's a bunch of hysteria going on here but nonetheless patience is key to rebuilding the Devils. I'm glad Ray isn't in a rush to go out and spend on unecessary contracts. The Devils will not compete for the Cup next year pretty much no matter what, there's not that much urgency here. 

I think Ray will make a splash come free agency and knowing him it might be for someone none of us were expecting. But our focus should still be on getting and developing our prospects. We've drafted poorly for a long time. Getting Jack Hughes pushes things up a bit but... not that much. 

It'd be great if Ray can get a RW and D this offseason - that's the ideal summer, but yeah...I'd rather him not pay too much to do it... we're not at the point where that's necessary. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Depends on where you think that moves your team for the next four years. If those picks put you in the range of 20++ by adding that player I think you absolutely do it. Do the Devils get to that level by adding Marner? - - I don't think so. 

Interesting to see Ray so... Candid in that interview. 

Yeah cause i mean... the leafs didnt win anything WITH Marner, Matthews and all those guys... so adding marner to our team would help but not sure it would put us to the top... we'd still need to get better at other position... free agency is not often a good spot and we wouldnt have much to trade either over the next 4 seasons.

big moves dont always pan out. Hell just look at minny... they never went past the 2nd round since the Parise/Suter signings. And that's going to cripple them later for sure. So spending insane money is not always the way to go

And Spending to the cap doesn't always work. there's teams that sucks right now up to the cap and there's team who didnt make it far in the playoffs up to the cap with no flexibility at all.. at least we have flexibility to make moves to get better. 

Edited by SterioDesign

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah cause i mean... the leafs didnt win anything WITH Marner, Matthews and all those guys... so adding marner to our team would help but not sure it would put us to the top... we'd still need to get better at other position... free agency is not often a good spot and we wouldnt have much to trade either over the next 4 seasons.

big moves dont always pan out. Hell just look at minny... they never went past the 2nd round since the Parise/Suter signings. And that's going to cripple them later for sure. So spending insane money is not always the way to go

And Spending to the cap doesn't always work. there's teams that sucks right now up to the cap and there's team who didnt make it far in the playoffs up to the cap with no flexibility at all.. at least we have flexibility to make moves to get better. 

Devils’ advocate here: I think the Leafs’ shortcomings are a mixed bag. I think the coach is so damn arrogant to realize how dumb he’s being, I mean Babs kept Matthews’ minutes right around 20 or under and he was on fire.

The Wild are a dumpster fire, and the Parise/Suter deals are the cornerstone of it.

I agree that while a theoretical Marner (EDIT: not Mariner like my phone autocorrected) doesn’t make us a Cup contender alone, I do think Marner, plus Hughes and a healthy Hall and a (hopefully) improved Bratt and Nico does equal playoffs and being competitive. Of course, a lot of what ifs and hope in there, plus still need a defender, but it’s a heck of a better lineup heading into next season.

The possible four firsts could hurt, but it could also be a moot point with playoff successes and a better farm system that we have 4-5 years ago.

Eh, it’s a pipe dream, but that’s what makes the unknown for some really fun.

Edited by jagknife

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1 minute ago, jagknife said:

Devils’ advocate here: I think the Leafs’ shortcomings are a mixed bag. I think the coach is so damn arrogant to realize how dumb he’s being, I mean Babs kept Matthews’ minutes right around 20 or under and he was on fire.

The Wild are a dumpster fire, and the Parise/Suter deals are the cornerstone of it.

I agree that while a theoretical Marner (EDIT: not Mariner like my phone autocorrected) doesn’t make us a Cup contender alone, I do think Marner, plus Hughes and a healthy Hall and a (hopefully) improved Bratt and Nico does equal playoffs and being competitive. Of course, a lot of what ifs and hope in there, plus still need a defender, but it’s a heck of a better lineup heading into next season.

The possible four firsts could hurt, but it could also be a moot point with playoff successes and a better farm system that we have 4-5 years ago.

Eh, it’s a pipe dream, but that’s what makes the unknown for some really fun.

obviously but its a huge gamble... just look at ottawa... they took that gamble thinking they'd be making the playoffs for awhile... and one year burned them BADLY when they needed it the most. 

I mean... our team got SO bad because of Lou's all-out mentality and bad drafting. We had to get rid of all the bad contract. change the team's direction completely and restock on prospects, assets and revamp the roster from almost nothing... It takes more than 4 years to do that. I'm not sure it's a smart move to take a HUGE gamble that could set us back quite a bit rather than taking the safe road and follow a plan to pick up the best assets along the way. Especially when we've been insanely lucky to win the lottery 2 years out of the 4... that's as much a little boost as you can really hope to get when you have litterally no prospects, no trade-able assets and not a good roster.

 

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1 hour ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Maybe to you it is, but maybe to the Jets its not

And maybe he also has no clue what he's talking about. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

from what I've been reading and my own personal opinion there is no way we can give up what an offer sheet would cost to acquire Marner. With that said, I think wen should definitely be in contact with Toronto and feel them out, if they think they are not going to be able to re sign him, I think it would only be smart on their behalf to be getting ideas on what they would get in a trade for him. Yes, I know we may not have what they would probably be looking for, but id hope we would obviously have the phones going to see what options could be out there to continue improving this team.

The Devils could absolutely afford to give an offersheet to Marner if the goal was to win.  But the goal is to distract you with amassing third line forwards and celebrate the triumphant return of Ben Lovejoy.

Edited by Daniel

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Just now, mfitz804 said:

And maybe he also has no clue what he's talking about. 

This is also a strong possibility. 

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A team can offer sheet for $10.5m and be in the tier under 4x 1sts.  Does $10.5 not get him to sign it?

You gotta imagine the player knows what he is costing the team as well.  Maybe getting 5% less is worth not completely handicapping your new team for your term there.

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4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The Devils could absolutely afford to give an offersheet to Marner if the goal was to win.  But the goal is to distract you with amassing third line forwards and celebrate the triumphant return of Ben Lovejoy.

We could also quickly find ourselves in the same salary cap mess that Toronto's in.   If we give Marner the 11.5 or whatever it would take, Hall as a better player at the same position would surely want more.   Then Nico and Hughes come up for contracts in 2 and 3 years.  Leafs have to shed salary and that "juggernaut" hasn't even won a playoff series yet.        

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2 minutes ago, Crisis said:

A team can offer sheet for $10.5m and be in the tier under 4x 1sts.  Does $10.5 not get him to sign it?

You gotta imagine the player knows what he is costing the team as well.  Maybe getting 5% less is worth not completely handicapping your new team for your term there.

If Ray's goal since he got here was to build a winner, he could sign someone to an offersheet past the four first rounder threshold.  This is because he has already had two number 1 overall picks in the three years, got lucky that Ty Smith was available last season and was also very lucky that an even more ineffective GM than him decided to give us Taylor Hall.   If, after all that, you refuse to add someone as good as Mitch Marner or maybe Mikko Rantanen, because you need those draft picks, you're grossly incompetent, but we knew that already.

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4 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

We could also quickly find ourselves in the same salary cap mess that Toronto's in.   If we give Marner the 11.5 or whatever it would take, Hall as a better player at the same position would surely want more.   Then Nico and Hughes come up for contracts in 2 and 3 years.  Leafs have to shed salary and that "juggernaut" hasn't even won a playoff series yet.        

Then just announce that all Devils games from here on out will be exhibitions where the score won't be kept.  Toronto might be having cap problems, but you know what they're also doing: winning. 

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1 minute ago, Daniel said:

Then just announce that all Devils games from here on out will be exhibitions where the score won't be kept.  Toronto might be having cap problems, but you know what they're also doing: winning. 

Are they really?  I must have missed when they've made it any further than the Devils did in '17-'18.  They also spent about three times as long bottoming out as Shero has even been a GM here to collect all that talent that is golfing before the start of May.    

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, mikemarc1 said:

Does Shero inquire?

It's not unthinkable that Shero tries to put together a trade that involves Pavel Zacha here. This would work for us positionally. But to pull the trigger on that, one has to believe that Puljujarvi is going to be better all-around than Zacha (something I'm not so sure of) and that EDM would have any interest in Zacha.

Edited by Neb00rs

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6 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

Are they really?  I must have missed when they've made it any further than the Devils did in '17-'18.  They also spent about three times as long bottoming out as Shero has even been a GM here to collect all that talent that is golfing before the start of May.    

Three playoff berths in a row and two 100 point seasons in a row.  Us, two bottom five finishes and what is shaping up to be several more.  But that cap space is glorious and gets hacks like Wyshynski to write puff pieces about you.

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8 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Three playoff berths in a row and two 100 point seasons in a row.  Us, two bottom five finishes and what is shaping up to be several more.  But that cap space is glorious and gets hacks like Wyshynski to write puff pieces about you.

Last Cup win: 1967

Last Playoff Series win:  2004

Last 14 years:  10 No Postseasons, 4 Playoff Appearances, total of 11 playoff game wins 

Only you and Charlie Sheen would categorize that as "winning".  Grass is always greener, sure, but maybe pick a healthier lawn for comparison next time, while in the throes of idiotic hysterics.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Last Cup win: 1967

Last Playoff Series win:  2004

Last 14 years:  10 No Postseasons, 4 Playoff Appearances, total of 11 playoff game wins 

Only you and Charlie Sheen would categorize that as "winning".  Grass is always greener, sure, but maybe pick a healthier lawn for comparison next time, while in the throes of idiotic hysterics.

I'm obviously referring to what Ray Shero has been able to accomplish and a reasonable prediction of what he will accomplish, which is not impressive.  I don't know even what he did in Pittsburgh that was all that special except show up to work.

I'm also making a point that success is not measured by cap space, which is a disease of the mind that's infected a lot of people who observe the sport or who actually work in it.

Edited by Daniel

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1 minute ago, CMONPETEYD said:

Zacha and McLeod for Puljujjarvi, Lucic and #8 overall?

 

 

First off - when are you updating your name to CMONJOHNNYH?

Second - hell yeah I do that and buy out Lucic immediately.  I don't think the Oilers deem that fair value, though.  I don't think Lucic's deal is THAT bad.

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5 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

It's not unthinkable that Shero tries to put together a trade that involves Pavel Zacha here. This would work for us positionally. But to pull the trigger on that, one has to believe that Puljujarvi is going to be better all-around than Zacha (something I'm not so sure of) and that EDM would have any interest in Zacha.

I'd 100% inquire on Puljujarvi. Size on the wing is one area we are extremely limited in (and especially RW). Even if he plays as a small 6'4 he's still 6'4...Puljujarvi ceiling is still high in my mind. The report says the Oilers want a 3rd line f in return (seems low)...yeah i'd give them any of coleman, zacha, zajac, wood  (sweeten it with some of our abundance of 2019 picks)....worth the risk to maybe hit a HR. You are getting a guy who was a top notch prospect only 3 years ago. If he had failed on a competent team i'd hesitate more, but I'd take the risk knowing the Oilers might have botched his development. 

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Just now, Devilsfan118 said:

First off - when are you updating your name to CMONJOHNNYH?

Second - hell yeah I do that and buy out Lucic immediately.  I don't think the Oilers deem that fair value, though.  I don't think Lucic's deal is THAT bad.

I guess someone needs to make the change for me....   Board Support or something like that...

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