2019-2020 Training Camp Roster

[MadDog2020]

 

[Neb00rs]

For anyone in the tiny camp of people who still aren't sure if Boqvist made the team or not, it'd be pretty funny if, a few days before opening night, the team sent back a player taking shifts on the top line between Hall and Palmieri.

2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Neb00rs

[Neb00rs]

10 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Probably true. I really don’t care for Mueller, but it’s not like we have much depth on defense. 

In any case, Ty Smith is still the favorite to go. And I'm going to work on the assumption that's what's going to happen until we hear different later today.

[CommonDreads]

I'm so annoyed that Rooney is going to be in this lineup to start the year. He did nothing to earn a roster spot and it's going to come at the expense of likely Smith.

Preseason CF: 38.67% (-8.38% Relative)
Preseason FF: 38.60% (-7.39% Relative)
Preseason SF: 37.21% (-8.97% Relative)
Preseason GF: 33.33% (-18.84% Relative)
Preseason SCF: 32.26% (-16.32% Relative)

He sucks. He doesn't belong anywhere near an NHL roster.

[ajsgolf]

11 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

I'm so annoyed that Rooney is going to be in this lineup to start the year. He did nothing to earn a roster spot and it's going to come at the expense of likely Smith.

Preseason CF: 38.67% (-8.38% Relative)
Preseason FF: 38.60% (-7.39% Relative)
Preseason SF: 37.21% (-8.97% Relative)
Preseason GF: 33.33% (-18.84% Relative)
Preseason SCF: 32.26% (-16.32% Relative)

He sucks. He doesn't belong anywhere near an NHL roster.

I’m guessing it can only be for the Ferris Bueller jokes and puns and they’re not ready to give that up yet.  Does that sound about right?  I mean, what else could it be?

[Triumph]

1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

I'm so annoyed that Rooney is going to be in this lineup to start the year. He did nothing to earn a roster spot and it's going to come at the expense of likely Smith.

Preseason CF: 38.67% (-8.38% Relative)
Preseason FF: 38.60% (-7.39% Relative)
Preseason SF: 37.21% (-8.97% Relative)
Preseason GF: 33.33% (-18.84% Relative)
Preseason SCF: 32.26% (-16.32% Relative)

He sucks. He doesn't belong anywhere near an NHL roster.

The access to preseason numbers has really denigrated the quality of conversation about these matters - 3 or 4 preseason games means nothing.  Rooney is probably a territorial drag, but his role is to sit in the press box and work real hard in practice.  He shouldn't play more than 40 games, and he shouldn't play more than a few shifts above the 4th line all season long.  As long as the Devils recognize what this guy is, there shouldn't be any issues.

You could try to build an NHL roster without these players but it would be tough - a 13th forward should be, almost definitionally, not a player who should be playing in the league regularly.  

[Neb00rs]

We're down to either Smith going back or a trade. The former looks highly likely now. 

 

[Neb00rs]

1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

I'm so annoyed that Rooney is going to be in this lineup to start the year. He did nothing to earn a roster spot and it's going to come at the expense of likely Smith.

Preseason CF: 38.67% (-8.38% Relative)
Preseason FF: 38.60% (-7.39% Relative)
Preseason SF: 37.21% (-8.97% Relative)
Preseason GF: 33.33% (-18.84% Relative)
Preseason SCF: 32.26% (-16.32% Relative)

He sucks. He doesn't belong anywhere near an NHL roster.

 

11 minutes ago, Triumph said:

The access to preseason numbers has really denigrated the quality of conversation about these matters - 3 or 4 preseason games means nothing.  Rooney is probably a territorial drag, but his role is to sit in the press box and work real hard in practice.  He shouldn't play more than 40 games, and he shouldn't play more than a few shifts above the 4th line all season long.  As long as the Devils recognize what this guy is, there shouldn't be any issues.

You could try to build an NHL roster without these players but it would be tough - a 13th forward should be, almost definitionally, not a player who should be playing in the league regularly.  

My bigger gripe re: Common's complaint is that the premise is "Rooney is in the lineup at the expense of Smith." But Smith is, as of now, the 8th d-man. He probably wouldn't be in the lineup much anyway and when he is, he'd likely play few minutes, and most of those minutes wouldn't be very important ones. This is how I'm getting over Smith going back to Spokane. He'll probably develop more playing heavy minutes over there than hardly ever over here. Sure, there's a chance the teenage Smith blossoms quickly given NHL experience but there's more of a chance he just sits on the bench.

[DevsMan84]

8 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

 

My bigger gripe re: Common's complaint is that the premise is "Rooney is in the lineup at the expense of Smith." But Smith is, as of now, the 8th d-man. He probably wouldn't be in the lineup much anyway and when he is, he'd likely play few minutes, and most of those minutes wouldn't be very important ones. This is how I'm getting over Smith going back to Spokane. He'll probably develop more playing heavy minutes over there than hardly ever over here. Sure, there's a chance the teenage Smith blossoms quickly given NHL experience but there's more of a chance he just sits on the bench.

I would rather have Smith as the 8th D-man than Rooney, at right now as it stands, the 14th forward.

I would rather see either Rooney waived or Mueller/Wood traded than Smith to get sent down back to Spokane to destroy the same league he destroyed last season.

[CommonDreads]

36 minutes ago, Triumph said:

The access to preseason numbers has really denigrated the quality of conversation about these matters - 3 or 4 preseason games means nothing.  Rooney is probably a territorial drag, but his role is to sit in the press box and work real hard in practice.  He shouldn't play more than 40 games, and he shouldn't play more than a few shifts above the 4th line all season long.  As long as the Devils recognize what this guy is, there shouldn't be any issues.

You could try to build an NHL roster without these players but it would be tough - a 13th forward should be, almost definitionally, not a player who should be playing in the league regularly.  

My point is Rooney, a player who has next to no positive metrics, is taking away a roster spot from one of our best prospects, regardless of position. Rooney's numbers last season are also pitiful, but I brought up his preseason numbers to illustrate he wasn't significantly good enough to "earn" his spot.

Yes, a replacement level player is who you want as your 13th forward anyways, but we have Hayden for that role. I don't see any benefit to having Kevin Rooney on our roster, especially when it's likely going to handcuff us from giving Smith the 9 game trial if management is against moving on from Mueller/Carrick.

Edited October 1, 2019 by CommonDreads

[NJDevils1214]

30 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

We're down to either Smith going back or a trade. The former looks highly likely now. 

 

[Neb00rs]

8 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I would rather have Smith as the 8th D-man than Rooney, at right now as it stands, the 14th forward.

I would rather see either Rooney waived or Mueller/Wood traded than Smith to get sent down back to Spokane to destroy the same league he destroyed last season.

Not sure right and wrong can be determined here but it just doesn't seem to be that big of a deal either way. Bench forward vs. bench d-man. 

And I'm not sure Smith can't benefit from trying to lead Spokane to a Cup and Canada to a WJC gold. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

15 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

My bigger gripe re: Common's complaint is that the premise is "Rooney is in the lineup at the expense of Smith." But Smith is, as of now, the 8th d-man. He probably wouldn't be in the lineup much anyway and when he is, he'd likely play few minutes, and most of those minutes wouldn't be very important ones. This is how I'm getting over Smith going back to Spokane. He'll probably develop more playing heavy minutes over there than hardly ever over here. Sure, there's a chance the teenage Smith blossoms quickly given NHL experience but there's more of a chance he just sits on the bench.

Tri's point re:  Rooney is dead-on.  Like he said, Rooney is exactly what a 13th forward is supposed to be...a legit fringer.  You don't want your legit prospects getting press box time and being healthy-scratched for games at a time.  No problem if that's happening to Rooney.

 

5 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I would rather have Smith as the 8th D-man than Rooney, at right now as it stands, the 14th forward.

I would rather see either Rooney waived or Mueller/Wood traded than Smith to get sent down back to Spokane to destroy the same league he destroyed last season.

It really is too bad that Smith can't play in the AHL this year (that would be most ideal at this point), but I don't want to see him make the team, then barely get to play.  Yeah, he doesn't have anything left to prove for his old team and we all know it, but I'd much rather him get a lot of ice time than make the team (but not really MAKE the team), get a shot after not playing in the first five games or so, have a rough game or two, then a bunch of scratches...all the while having confidence issues, and not getting nearly enough game time.

Of course, you can make the argument that what if he figures it out enough that he forces his way into the lineup?  Of course, the other side to that is what if he doesn't? 

Neither choice given what we've seen of Smith is appealing...he doesn't appear to be ready for the NHL, and he's too good for juniors.  But if I HAVE to pick one, I go with Smith getting playing time and lots of it.  That's probably not going to happen here.

I'm not against him getting a nine-game look, but it doesn't look like the Devils think that's going to help...I think they've simply decided that he's just not ready yet.  Being that there's enough D that can provide offense at the moment, I'll defer to the Devils (even though it's disappointing...Smith had me excited to see what he could do up here). 

 

If it does turn out that he gets sent back (sure looks that way), hopefully he learns from it, and comes back fully locked and loaded to claim a spot for 2020-21.  As much as it's a bummer now, five or six years from now, we could see articles where Smith talks about how beneficial this last rejection was. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[DevsMan84]

Just now, Neb00rs said:

Not sure right and wrong can be determined here but it just doesn't seem to be that big of a deal either way. Bench forward vs. bench d-man. 

And I'm not sure Smith can't benefit from trying to lead Spokane to a Cup and Canada to a WJC gold. 

I just don't see the advantage of the team doing everything they can to keep an easily replaceable player at the expense of a player who could use some NHL experience.

Smith may win a cup or WJC gold by playing in Spokane, but I don't see how it would benefit him developmentally from those two expect to make him feel better.

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Tri's point re:  Rooney is dead-on.  Like he said, Rooney is exactly what a 13th forward is supposed to be...a legit fringer.  You don't want your legit prospects getting press box time and being healthy-scratched for games at a time.  No problem if that's happening to Rooney.

 

It really is too bad that Smith can't play in the AHL this year (that would be most ideal at this point), but I don't want to see him make the team, then barely get to play.  Yeah, he doesn't have anything left to prove for his old team and we all know it, but I'd much rather him get a lot of ice time than make the team (but not really MAKE the team), get a shot after not playing in the first five games or so, have a rough game or two, then a bunch of scratches...all the while having confidence issues, and not getting nearly enough game time.

Of course, you can make the argument that what if he figures it out enough that he forces his way into the lineup?  Of course, the other side to that is what if he doesn't? 

Neither choice given what we've seen of Smith is appealing...he doesn't appear to be ready for the NHL, and he's too good for juniors.  But if I HAVE to pick one, I go with Smith getting playing time and lots of it.  That's probably not going to happen here.

I'm not against him getting a nine-game look, but it doesn't look like the Devils think that's going to help...I think they've simply decided that he's just not ready yet.  Being that there's enough D that can provide offense at the moment, I'll defer to the Devils (even though it's disappointing...Smith had me excited to see what he could do up here). 

Smith going to Bing would be the most ideal, but that option is not on the table, unfortunately.

I still think it is worth the risk of waiving Rooney to give Smith a 9-game look.  To not just because the Devils are afraid to lose their 14th forward in waivers is ridiculous.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, DevsMan84 said:

Smith going to Bing would be the most ideal, but that option is not on the table, unfortunately.

I still think it is worth the risk of waiving Rooney to give Smith a 9-game look.  To not just because the Devils are afraid to lose their 14th forward in waivers is ridiculous.

Yeah I mentioned that in my post...I really wish Smith could go to the A, but can't wish for what we can't ever have. 

I think Shero, Hynes & Co have seen enough, and they're thinking that Smith's not even ready for the nine-game look.  I think it's much more about how they currently feel about Smith than it is about Rooney. 

[Neb00rs]

6 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Tri's point re:  Rooney is dead-on.  Like he said, Rooney is exactly what a 13th forward is supposed to be...a legit fringer.  You don't want your legit prospects getting press box time and being healthy-scratched for games at a time.  No problem if that's happening to Rooney.

I don't disagree with Tri's point. But yeah, my bigger concern is that Smith is going to do a lot of sitting in the NHL as a 19 year old. Rooney is a good 13th/14th forward who has already developed and can sit 45+ games a year. But we aren't desperate to find fringe NHLers. We have other players who can fill that role if need be. Again, though, I'm fine with Rooney being the guy.

Smith still has things he can accomplish in juniors - as part of the Chiefs and on the Canadian national team at the WJC. He'll probably develop more being a leader there. Probably.

[mfitz804]

7 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

And I'm not sure Smith can't benefit from trying to lead Spokane to a Cup and Canada to a WJC gold. 

Agreed. I’m not sure he would benefit more sitting in the press box and then playing like sh!t when he actually gets into a game. 

I get the “give him 9 games to prove himself” thought, but I’m not sure one can prove anything in 9 games, plus even if you believe he could, he had all of training camp to prove something and he failed to do so. 

I want him on the roster, but I want him on the roster playing well, not as a meme target. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, Neb00rs said:

I don't disagree with Tri's point. But yeah, my bigger concern is that Smith is going to do a lot of sitting in the NHL as a 19 year old. Rooney is a good 13th/14th forward who has already developed and can sit 45+ games a year. But we aren't desperate to find fringe NHLers. We have other players who can fill that role if need be. Again, though, I'm fine with Rooney being the guy.

Smith still has things he can accomplish in juniors - as part of the Chiefs and on the Canadian national team at the WJC. He'll probably develop more being a leader there. Probably.

Oh I know you didn't, I was actually agreeing with both you and him. 

[Neb00rs]

3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah I mentioned that in my post...I really wish Smith could go to the A, but can't wish for what we can't ever have. 

I think Shero, Hynes & Co have seen enough, and they're thinking that Smith's not even ready for the nine-game look.  I think it's much more about how they currently feel about Smith than it is about Rooney. 

The 9 game look has to do with roster flexibility. If the Devils had more players that were waivers exempt they'd probably give Smith the look. But they don't. Which means that they have to waive a player to give Smith the opportunity - and it seems to me that you only do that if you really think there's a chance the player can make the team and play significant minutes. Smith doesn't fit the bill.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Neb00rs

[DevsMan84]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed. I’m not sure he would benefit more sitting in the press box and then playing like sh!t when he actually gets into a game. 

I get the “give him 9 games to prove himself” thought, but I’m not sure one can prove anything in 9 games, plus even if you believe he could, he had all of training camp to prove something and he failed to do so. 

I want him on the roster, but I want him on the roster playing well, not as a meme target. 

Smith did look noticeably better in the last 2 games than in the previous 3-4 games he played in the preseason.

Preseason is just a quick look and I don't think getting what may be the worst 3-4 game stretch of his season should interfere with him getting his 9 games.

Again, I am more than willing to risk Rooney for him to get that 9-game chance.

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Smith did look noticeably better in the last 2 games than in the previous 3-4 games he played in the preseason.

That’s like being proud you only pissed the bed instead of sh!tting it. 

3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Again, I am more than willing to risk Rooney for him to get that 9-game chance.

It’s barely above a zero risk move, in that Rooney is alive and owns a hockey stick. There’s a 0.0001% chance you lose him. So that’s a non issue for me. 

[dmann422]

Nothing Smith has shown this preseason warrants him getting the 9 game look. If you cut a guy like Rooney even if he doesn't get claimed, your sending the message that Smith gets the spot on reputation/pedigree alone, which is not an example I want to set for such a young team.

[NJDevils1214]

28 minutes ago, dmann422 said:

Nothing Smith has shown this preseason warrants him getting the 9 game look. If you cut a guy like Rooney even if he doesn't get claimed, your sending the message that Smith gets the spot on reputation/pedigree alone, which is not an example I want to set for such a young team.

I haven't heard anything about Smith's family being good at anything that would make his pedigree relevant. You could argue it would be based on his performance outside of this specific camp. That would be fair considering if there was a scenario where Hughes had happened to have a bad camp people would still want to see him get the 9 games as opposed to whatever the alternative would be based on performances/achievements elsewhere.

[aylbert]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

That’s like being proud you only pissed the bed instead of sh!tting it. 

I dunno, you can throw your pissed soaked sheets into the washer without much prep unlike the other sh!tty scenario.