mfitz804 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said: https://www.tampabay.com/sports/lightning/2019/10/06/lightning-cant-find-the-shots-lose-to-hurricanes/ “Unless we change things, it’s going to be a really, really, really long year," the captain says. Topic for discussion: Do you expect longtime captain Andy Greene to come out and say something similar if the Devils continue to struggle out of the gate? Nope. Doesn't seem to be his style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 39 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said: https://www.tampabay.com/sports/lightning/2019/10/06/lightning-cant-find-the-shots-lose-to-hurricanes/ “Unless we change things, it’s going to be a really, really, really long year," the captain says. Topic for discussion: Do you expect longtime captain Andy Greene to come out and say something similar if the Devils continue to struggle out of the gate? I wish, but no. 13 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Nope. Doesn't seem to be his style. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: I wish, but no. I would add, I don’t care what he does or doesn’t say to the media. That’s not what I need my captain to do. He has to be telling his players things, that’s what a captain does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 greene has always been a behind the scenes captain. you don't see him too often in the post game media scrums. those are almost always hall, palms and zajac along with whoever the goaltender was that night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 41 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: I would add, I don’t care what he does or doesn’t say to the media. That’s not what I need my captain to do. He has to be telling his players things, that’s what a captain does. I agree with that to an extent, but in this day and age where everyone is looking for a comment or story, and it's so easy to be accessible and give one, you like to see something said. Particularly when things aren't going right. I mean, if the team was 24-0 and the captain didn't say anything, that's fine, because things are going well, so we don't need any explanations or wonder what they're going to do or change. But if they're struggling, then you start to wonder, and you want to know what's going on and what's being done to rectify the issues. Also, not that I'm a keep up with the Jones's guy by any means, but when the rest of the teams in the league have their captains saying things to the media and opening themselves up to the media and fans, by us not doing that, it makes it seem like they're either A) hiding and don't want to be accountable, or B ) just have no plan whatsoever and are incapable of fixing the problem. Whichever might be true, obviously neither is good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, NJDfan1711 said: I agree with that to an extent, but in this day and age where everyone is looking for a comment or story, and it's so easy to be accessible and give one, you like to see something said. Particularly when things aren't going right. I mean, if the team was 24-0 and the captain didn't say anything, that's fine, because things are going well, so we don't need any explanations or wonder what they're going to do or change. But if they're struggling, then you start to wonder, and you want to know what's going on and what's being done to rectify the issues. Also, not that I'm a keep up with the Jones's guy by any means, but when the rest of the teams in the league have their captains saying things to the media and opening themselves up to the media and fans, by us not doing that, it makes it seem like they're either A) hiding and don't want to be accountable, or B ) just have no plan whatsoever and are incapable of fixing the problem. Whichever might be true, obviously neither is good. One captain said one thing. It's not like captains from every single other team are constantly talking to the media about their issues. This isn't directed at you personally, but I really hate that kind of stuff...I get being annoyed by how the first two games went (especially up in Buffalo), but when people get pissed they tend to start spewing inaccuracies, where the grass is somehow greener everywhere else. And this team has been more accessible in general than it ever was during the Lou years. Let's give them all a little time to sort this out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: One captain said one thing. It's not like captains from every single other team are constantly talking to the media about their issues. This isn't directed at you personally, but I really hate that kind of stuff...I get being annoyed by how the first two games went (especially up in Buffalo), but when people get pissed they tend to start spewing inaccuracies, where the grass is somehow greener everywhere else. And this team has been more accessible in general than it ever was during the Lou years. Let's give them all a little time to sort this out. To me it is just part of that "entitled fan" additude that makes people think cause they buy tickets and jerseys they should have a direct line to Shero's voicemail or access to his photocopies. What is he supposed to say that we don't all already know anyway? Trust me, he knows they've sucked so far lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, NJDevils1214 said: To me it is just part of that "entitled fan" additude that makes people think cause they buy tickets and jerseys they should have a direct line to Shero's voicemail or access to his photocopies. What is he supposed to say that we don't all already know anyway? Trust me, he knows they've sucked so far lol. The Devils aren't a bunch of oblivious dummies. They know it's basically been brutal since the third period of the first game. Andy Greene parroting Stamkos for all of us to see in print isn't going to make me think any differently about what's going on. We all got excited by the new faces and the relatively solid showing in preseason, but the reality is there's new faces and there were definitely some question marks heading in. I'm still pretty optimistic overall though. And of course, plenty could be going on behind the scenes that we'll never be privy too, as far as players speaking up. Just because they're not giving juicy quotes to the media doesn't mean they never speak up at all. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: The Devils aren't a bunch of oblivious dummies. They know it's basically been brutal since the third period of the first game. Andy Greene parroting Stamkos for all of us to see in print isn't going to make me think any differently about what's going on. We all got excited by the new faces and the relatively solid showing in preseason, but the reality is there's new faces and there were definitely some question marks heading in. I'm still pretty optimistic overall though. And of course, plenty could be going on behind the scenes that we'll never be privy too, as far as players speaking up. Just because they're not giving juicy quotes to the media doesn't mean they never speak up at all. Also doesn't make us entitled to know what's said in the locker room. That's between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said: Also, not that I'm a keep up with the Jones's guy by any means, but when the rest of the teams in the league have their captains saying things to the media and opening themselves up to the media and fans, by us not doing that, it makes it seem like they're either A) hiding and don't want to be accountable, or B ) just have no plan whatsoever and are incapable of fixing the problem. Whichever might be true, obviously neither is good. 1 hour ago, NJDevils1214 said: To me it is just part of that "entitled fan" additude that makes people think cause they buy tickets and jerseys they should have a direct line to Shero's voicemail or access to his photocopies. What is he supposed to say that we don't all already know anyway? Trust me, he knows they've sucked so far lol. Agree totally, the whole concept that the team needs to be communicating things to the fans drives me crazy. They don't have to tell you anything. All they have to do is come out on the ice and compete. I don't care what they say to media outlets at all, and I never watch that stuff for that reason. Want me to believe something? Show me it on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 32 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Agree totally, the whole concept that the team needs to be communicating things to the fans drives me crazy. They don't have to tell you anything. All they have to do is come out on the ice and compete. I don't care what they say to media outlets at all, and I never watch that stuff for that reason. Want me to believe something? Show me it on the ice. Ever since the expansion of coverage in the media, such as social media and other online mediums, the desire to know more intensifies. Remember back in the day (read that as 20-25 years ago) we would need to watch the game, the news that night/next morning or be relegated to just the newspaper? Like that's how I grew up, waking up before school and hoping the Devils were not on the west coast, otherwise I wouldn't really know the game result (fvck I'm getting old). But with the aforementioned advent of social media, having all of that information in the palm of my hand, and it seems like EVERYTHING makes it to the media (quotes, who hates who, etc). So like someone, maybe you, said that once the Great Wall of Lamoriello was destroyed and we had actual access to this team, some people just want more and more information. I get it, hell I was that guy leading up to the draft, fully admit to that fact. I do agree 100% that actions speak louder than words, just shut the hell up and prove it on the ice. I'd rather hear nothing than canned statements after the games, just worded differently. I find that to be patronizing, especially since they're required to talk to people by the league, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) Malkin out indefinitely: https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27792484/penguins-evegni-malkin-indefinitely-coach-mike-sullivan-says Edited October 7, 2019 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) NYR is out of cap trouble for this season. Edited October 8, 2019 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said: Malkin out indefinitely: https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27792484/penguins-evegni-malkin-indefinitely-coach-mike-sullivan-says Could be the beginning of the end for that dynasty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, Nicomo said: Could be the beginning of the end for that dynasty... Watch them have a tough year and land Lafreniere and be right back at the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Lateralous said: Watch them have a tough year and land Lafreniere and be right back at the top That would suck. I just want to see them finally miss the playoffs. Think they have the current longest streak at 13 seasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Rags traded Namestnikov to Ottawa: https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/rangers-trade-vladislav-namestnikov-to-senators/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: One captain said one thing. It's not like captains from every single other team are constantly talking to the media about their issues. This isn't directed at you personally, but I really hate that kind of stuff...I get being annoyed by how the first two games went (especially up in Buffalo), but when people get pissed they tend to start spewing inaccuracies, where the grass is somehow greener everywhere else. And this team has been more accessible in general than it ever was during the Lou years. Let's give them all a little time to sort this out. I know one captain said one thing, but one captain said one thing so far, this season. My comment was more or less an indictment on Greene as a captain since he was given the C - the rest of the league's captains may not have said anything yet this season because we're only 2 games in, but rest assured they do, and have, in season's past, when the situation calls for it - while we get essentially radio silence from our captain. We know he's not the most vocal guy, and I'm not gonna crucify him for not speaking out after just 2 games, and hopefully this losing trend doesn't continue, but if it looks the same 10 games from now, and he still doesn't say anything? Then yeah, I'm gonna be a bit irritated. There's too much talent on the team for your captain to just take it all in stride and stay mute. That's not what leaders do. While I'm all for proving and showing what you can do on the ice, most, not all, but most leaders are vocal, at least when they need to be. 15 hours ago, mfitz804 said: Agree totally, the whole concept that the team needs to be communicating things to the fans drives me crazy. They don't have to tell you anything. All they have to do is come out on the ice and compete. I don't care what they say to media outlets at all, and I never watch that stuff for that reason. Want me to believe something? Show me it on the ice. I hear you. I'm not saying they have to, especially not now after 2 games, but when the situation calls for it it's nice to be informed and to know that the team you love cares about their fans and that they want to be accountable to you because they're communicating with you. Required? No, of course not. But nice? You betcha. 14 hours ago, jagknife said: Ever since the expansion of coverage in the media, such as social media and other online mediums, the desire to know more intensifies. Remember back in the day (read that as 20-25 years ago) we would need to watch the game, the news that night/next morning or be relegated to just the newspaper? Like that's how I grew up, waking up before school and hoping the Devils were not on the west coast, otherwise I wouldn't really know the game result (fvck I'm getting old). But with the aforementioned advent of social media, having all of that information in the palm of my hand, and it seems like EVERYTHING makes it to the media (quotes, who hates who, etc). So like someone, maybe you, said that once the Great Wall of Lamoriello was destroyed and we had actual access to this team, some people just want more and more information. I get it, hell I was that guy leading up to the draft, fully admit to that fact. I do agree 100% that actions speak louder than words, just shut the hell up and prove it on the ice. I'd rather hear nothing than canned statements after the games, just worded differently. I find that to be patronizing, especially since they're required to talk to people by the league, I think. 1000% this. Most of us grew up with limited access to spots reports, highlights, scores, and what have you. I too grew up reading the paper the next day to check the box scores of last night's games, or waiting patiently for the bottom ticker on ESPN to show the score of the game just so I knew if we won or not, even if I couldn't stay and catch the actual highlights of the game if/when they got around to it. But, that's not the world we live in anymore. In this day and age the media, news, reporting, and coverage as a whole is 24/7. Not to mention the fact that it's just so EASY to get access to and report on player/team news. Reporters and the players themselves don't really have to go out of their way to set up a special press conference - everyone has a high quality phone in their pocket capable of recording audio or video at any moment, and that content can then be sent (or edited first) to a studio to be re-broadcast in mere minutes - hell, that's not even touching the fact that there are hundreds of apps that let you go "live" and stream directly from the device right from your own hand. Again, is any of this required? Of course not. And I'm with you guys, I'd much rather than say nothing and just prove it on the ice by playing better. But if that doesn't happen, then yeah, I don't want silence, especially not from our captain. Edited October 8, 2019 by NJDfan1711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Just now, NJDfan1711 said: I know one captain said one thing, but one captain said one thing so far, this season. My comment was more or less an indictment on Greene as a captain since he was given the C - the rest of the league's captains may not have said anything yet this season because we're only 2 games in, but rest assured they do, and have, in season's past, when the situation calls for it - while we get essentially radio silence from our captain. We know he's not the most vocal guy, and I'm not gonna crucify him for not speaking out after just 2 games, and hopefully this losing trend doesn't continue, but if it looks the same 10 games from now, and he still doesn't say anything? Then yeah, I'm gonna be a bit irritated. There's too much talent on the team for your captain to just take it all in stride and stay mute. That's not what leaders do. While I'm all for proving and showing what you can do on the ice, most, not all, but most leaders are vocal, at least when they need to be. This is similar to when people think that when the team is losing, that the captain is some deep well of inspirational speeches, and should be able to "inspire" his teammates to victory. You have no tangible proof that the rest of the NHL's captains are constantly speaking to the press about the state of their teams (especially in rougher times)...I doubt you're checking what EVERY team's captain has been up to over the past several seasons. Is it really going to make you feel better if Greene all of a sudden gets "real" in some postgame press conference? How do you know he's not already taking himself and the rest of his team, but only the people who matter are the ones actually hearing it? Anyway, you're pissed about this start to the season, which I get. So that means people like Greene are going to get jumped on for slights both real and imagined. You're assuming "radio silence" just because he didn't have a Stamkos moment with a bunch of writers. I do agree with you and others though...even if Greene had a public "Goddammit, this sh!t can't continue, I'm really mad and we're not gonna take it anymore!", that might not make a lick of difference on the ice. I don't need the team selling me on them all being pissed...like I said, they're not stupid, they know they're not off to a strong start and I doubt they're complacent about it. Whatever it is we need to see, we need to see it on the ice. From everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: This is similar to when people think that when the team is losing, that the captain is some deep well of inspirational speeches, and should be able to "inspire" his teammates to victory. Indeed. I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I've been on record saying that I think the 'C' should come with some type of responsibility like that - otherwise what's the point of having it if the only thing you get from wearing it is to be able to stand with the other team's captain in a small semi-circle next to the ref during goal reviews just so you can 'look important'? As far as I'm concerned, if you're goin to wear the C and not be a vocal leader or speak up at any point during the season, good or bad, then give it the fvck up and let someone who WILL do those things wear it, because otherwise there's really no point and you don't deserve it. It might as well be invisible on the jersey. Quote You have no tangible proof that the rest of the NHL's captains are constantly speaking to the press about the state of their teams (especially in rougher times)...I doubt you're checking what EVERY team's captain has been up to over the past several seasons. You're right, I'm not watching every other team's media outlets to see if or when their captains might be making a statement about themselves or their team, however I think we both know that it happens. To suggest otherwise is just silly. I could do just a small amount of digging and uncover some examples - I'll see if I can get a few and then come back and edit this post. Quote Is it really going to make you feel better if Greene all of a sudden gets "real" in some postgame press conference? How do you know he's not already taking himself and the rest of his team, but only the people who matter are the ones actually hearing it? Actually, yes, maybe a little. Maybe not now, because it's early, but like I said before, if this continues and we're 10 games in, then yes, I definitely want to hear what he has to say. Otherwise, based on the product on the ice, I personally would assume they're not doing anything in practice to get better or they haven't changed their system and what they're doing, because the result night in and night out is the same (again, this is hypotheticals - assuming we suck the next 10 games, and that he doesn't say anything - we might not suck (hopefully), and he might ACTUALLY say something (doubtful)). And yes, you're right, I don't know that he's not saying anything to the rest of the team - but he gives me little to no reason to believe he's saying things behind closed doors to his teammates and not publicly in front of a microphone to the rest of the world. As others have said, he just doesn't seem like that type of guy, and to me, for a captain, that's a problem. Quote Anyway, you're pissed about this start to the season, which I get. So that means people like Greene are going to get jumped on for slights both real and imagined. You're assuming "radio silence" just because he didn't have a Stamkos moment with a bunch of writers. I'm not even pissed right now - disappointed in the team's play, sure, but pissed because Greene hasn't said anything yet? No. I will be pissed if he doesn't say anything in 10 games or so and the team still looks the way they do now. But, even though I said it's early and I don't expect him to say anything after just 2 games, to your point about Stamkos, his team has played BETTER than ours, and he already spoke up and called them out. Our team has played WORSE, yet we get nothing. To me, that's a pretty significant difference. You have a captain who leads by example and expects more out of himself and his team - he knows they're capable of more, that their fans deserve better, and that they're doing things to fix it. Quote I do agree with you and others though...even if Greene had a public "Goddammit, this sh!t can't continue, I'm really mad and we're not gonna take it anymore!", that might not make a lick of difference on the ice. I don't need the team selling me on them all being pissed...like I said, they're not stupid, they know they're not off to a strong start and I doubt they're complacent about it. Whatever it is we need to see, we need to see it on the ice. From everyone. If I had my choice, I'd prefer they just do their talking on the ice and play better too, but going back to the earlier comments about the day and age we live in, it's just too easy to blast something, anything, out on social media and let yourself be heard to the masses, and there's really no reason why you can't or shouldn't do it - plus, with athletes getting massive contracts lately, I don't know that you can put it past some players to just rest on their laurels and not really give a damn if they're off to a bad start. Edited October 8, 2019 by NJDfan1711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) I guess I wish we had a captain that actually had the ability to make an impact out there - whether it be a top pair shutdown defenseman (Subban), elite scoring forward (Hall), or up-and-coming elite two way forward (Nico). I'm just not crazy about your team's captain being basically a fringe NHLer - think it makes for an awkward dynamic. But again what the hell do I know, I'm not in the room. I know that it's not necessarily a requirement that every captain out there be an outspoken superstar player but.. it can't hurt can it? 19 hours ago, sundstrom said: greene has always been a behind the scenes captain. you don't see him too often in the post game media scrums. those are almost always hall, palms and zajac along with whoever the goaltender was that night. I'd prefer the Devils go with a captain that DOES handle the media well - but again, not necessarily a requirement obviously. Edited October 8, 2019 by Devilsfan118 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Is it really going to make you feel better if Greene all of a sudden gets "real" in some postgame press conference? How do you know he's not already taking himself and the rest of his team, but only the people who matter are the ones actually hearing it? You're right in saying that we know very little about what goes on behind the scenes. There's an element of interest for me in wondering who the leaders are behind the scenes and how the players really are. The "Hard Knocks" type series are really compelling in this way even if you have this sense that the cameras shouldn't be in there. The hockey versions of Hard Knocks have never been done well. Braveheart-type speeches from the captain aren't going to do much to get a team on a winning track - but there's legitimate debate to be had about how much the right or wrong attitude pervading a locker room can affect play on the ice. But I think the whole locker room leadership dynamic thing works the other way around. When a team is winning, everyone is happy and pumped up, when the team is losing, everyone is pissed off and low-energy. The Devils just need to find a way to win and everything else will fall into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said: I'd prefer the Devils go with a captain that DOES handle the media well - but again, not necessarily a requirement obviously. Not me, but I'm old school. Shut your fvcking mouth and play hockey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Neb00rs said: When a team is winning, everyone is happy and pumped up, when the team is losing, everyone is pissed off and low-energy. The Devils just need to find a way to win and everything else will fall into place. Feel like people have been saying this* about the Oilers for about 10 years now.. Edited October 8, 2019 by Devilsfan118 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Devilsfan118 said: I guess I wish we had a captain that actually had the ability to make an impact out there - whether it be a top pair shutdown defenseman (Subban), elite scoring forward (Hall), or up-and-coming elite two way forward (Nico). I'm just not crazy about your team's captain being basically a fringe NHLer - think it makes for an awkward dynamic. But again what the hell do I know, I'm not in the room. I know that it's not necessarily a requirement that every captain out there be an outspoken superstar player but.. it can't hurt can it? I'd prefer the Devils go with a captain that DOES handle the media well - but again, not necessarily a requirement obviously. Those players can still make an impact without a "C" on their jersey. The rah-rah captain thing is vastly overrated anyway. Like you said, we aren't in the room but from what we've read, Greene, Zajac and to an extent Schneider are the respected long term "elders" and I don't see it as worth the damage it would do in the locker room to give it to someone else. My guess is its either Hall or Nico next year if Greene is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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