Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 2/10/2020 at 8:42 AM, Devilsfan118 said: Oh boy you nailed it, he and his agent are really working the PR right now. The latest article - something like "I don't want to talk contract extension right now because I don't want to take the focus away from the team" is such colossal bullsh!t. But their fanbase is eating this sh!t up. BTW he's already slowing up a bit...4 points in his last 8 GP. And he had occasional offensive surges with the Kings (14 points in 13 GP, 9 points in 11 GP in two separate bursts last season), despite the overall lack of production since coming back from the K. Not fully ruling out that he may actually have a little something left...more that it's too early to make too much out of his "resurgence". It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he has an occasional big game or goal here and there, but doesn't do much the rest of this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Could you imagine this team without Coleman or Palms? Holy fvck I'm so happy I have almost all my buybacks left. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, Daniel said: I'm not averse to trading Coleman or Palms, but either would have to be for a return that's too good to say no to. I would not do it for what the Penguins gave up (lottery protected pick from a good team and a looks good now but still maybe-ish defensive prospect). I would try and target a really desperate team like Buffalo. It would not shock me at all if they'd be willing to give up their first (unprotected) this year or perhaps Dylan Cozens for either Palms or Coleman. Maybe something else needs to get added to balance it out in one direction or the other. It sounded like Buffalo was prepared to overpay for Zucker, but they were apparently on his no trade list. Palms and Coleman are better players than Zucker, Zucker just has the better contract. Buffalo is trending down as of late, something like 4 wins in last 10gp or something, so they'd be smart to hold onto their first rnd pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: To me Palms and Coleman are exactly the kind of guys you want as this team restarts a rebuild. They just seem like great examples for young players to look at, plus they are part of a very small group on this team that actually puts up consistent goals and points. But I unfortunately understand that you have to make the move if someone blows your doors off with an offer Painful as it would be, and as bummed as I would be, if someone is willing to overpay significantly for one of them...I guess I have to suck it up and say goodbye. But I would still hate it. I just really like those two, the effort that they give, and their overachieving tendencies. I would really REALLY hate to see either one of them go, even if the return makes total sense. There's certain players that you just emotionally connect with. And in times like these, you'd LOVE to see their years spent playing for bad teams eventually pay off...those guys really become unforgettable everyman heroes. Palms has always reminded me of John MacLean...I'd love to see it turn out the same way for him as it did for JMac eventually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: To me Palms and Coleman are exactly the kind of guys you want as this team restarts a rebuild. They just seem like great examples for young players to look at, plus they are part of a very small group on this team that actually puts up consistent goals and points. But I unfortunately understand that you have to make the move if someone blows your doors off with an offer Are they really though? I don't want to keep players around because of intangibles such as "good examples" and "leadership." That is the same sort of line of thinking of why Greene and Zajac got NTC and are basically un-movable. I just don't want to have Palms around on year 6 of a 7-year contract when he is 36ish years old and scoring maybe 15 goals a season. I don't want Blake Coleman to be in our top 2 lines for the next few seasons either as he is not a long-term top 6 player. This team needs a purge in the worst possible way. We need different management, different coaching, and a complete rebuild of the team. The only players that should be untouchable in the next 12 months should be Blackwood, Nico and Hughes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: Buffalo is trending down as of late, something like 4 wins in last 10gp or something, so they'd be smart to hold onto their first rnd pick. They haven't been in the playoffs in forever, and there are rumblings that Jack Eichel is not happy with the situation. The GM appears to be in nothing to lose territory by mortgaging valuable prospects or picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said: Could you imagine this team without Coleman or Palms? Holy fvck I'm so happy I have almost all my buybacks left. If trading one of them helps you end up with a draft haul of Byfield, Drysdale and Jack Quinn, I could imagine it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Daniel said: They haven't been in the playoffs in forever, and there are rumblings that Jack Eichel is not happy with the situation. The GM appears to be in nothing to lose territory by mortgaging valuable prospects or picks. Right now their playoff chances are barely higher than NJs. Holding onto the picks is the higher chance of success play vs selling out another year or two on a hail mary bid to keep Eichel. I doubt a squeak into the playoffs with a first round exit would keep him anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said: Are they really though? I don't want to keep players around because of intangibles such as "good examples" and "leadership." That is the same sort of line of thinking of why Greene and Zajac got NTC and are basically un-movable. I just don't want to have Palms around on year 6 of a 7-year contract when he is 36ish years old and scoring maybe 15 goals a season. I don't want Blake Coleman to be in our top 2 lines for the next few seasons either as he is not a long-term top 6 player. This team needs a purge in the worst possible way. We need different management, different coaching, and a complete rebuild of the team. The only players that should be untouchable in the next 12 months should be Blackwood, Nico and Hughes. In Zajac's case, I'd say it was more that there was money to spend with Kovy and Parise gone, and Zajac wasn't that far removed from his most productive seasons. And at the time, it did feel like losing him was really going to be another huge blow. At least with Palms and Coleman, both don't appear to be declining and aren't old...Palms has been Palms (scoring at his 30 G per 82 GP pace), and Coleman just seems to get better and better. If the Devils can re-sign them to reasonable 5-6 year contracts, I'd take that risk...the only Devils that are signed beyond 2021-22 are Nico and Severson. Gotta have some reliable vets, as I get the feeling there won't be too many of them in the lineup...I think a lot of kids are going to be here in the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: Right now their playoff chances are barely higher than NJs. Holding onto the picks is the higher chance of success play vs selling out another year or two on a hail mary bid to keep Eichel. I doubt a squeak into the playoffs with a first round exit would keep him anyway. The idea would be for Coleman and Palms to help Buffalo make the playoffs next year and perhaps show improvement towards the end of this year. You're right thought that if each of them had at least one more year on their deal, a trade like that would be more plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: Are they really though? I don't want to keep players around because of intangibles such as "good examples" and "leadership." That is the same sort of line of thinking of why Greene and Zajac got NTC and are basically un-movable. I just don't want to have Palms around on year 6 of a 7-year contract when he is 36ish years old and scoring maybe 15 goals a season. I don't want Blake Coleman to be in our top 2 lines for the next few seasons either as he is not a long-term top 6 player. This team needs a purge in the worst possible way. We need different management, different coaching, and a complete rebuild of the team. The only players that should be untouchable in the next 12 months should be Blackwood, Nico and Hughes. I think they are, yes. No one said sign them to lifetime deals, but upping them both for another 3-4 years after next season isn't going to break the bank. We won’t have the contracts of Zajac, Greene, Schneider, or Subban in 3 years. Plus no Taylor Hall to pay for. The team needs a purge, yes. But not if guys that actually contribute. The "trade everything that isn't nailed down" thing every February works for a while, but eventually you need players on the ice. Or we'll get to enjoy second liners like Rooney and Hayden for a few years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: In Zajac's case, I'd say it was more that there was money to spend with Kovy and Parise gone, and Zajac wasn't that far removed from his most productive seasons. And at the time, it did feel like losing him was really going to be another huge blow. At least with Palms and Coleman, both don't appear to be declining and aren't old...Palms has been Palms (scoring at his 30 G per 82 GP pace), and Coleman just seems to get better and better. If the Devils can re-sign them to reasonable 5-6 year contracts, I'd take that risk...the only Devils that are signed beyond 2021-22 are Nico and Severson. Gotta have some reliable vets, as I get the feeling there won't be too many of them in the lineup...I think a lot of kids are going to be here in the next few years. A month ago I probably agree with you regarding Palms and Coleman. Now, not so much. They are both Shero guys and the Shero tenure by all intents and purposes is a failure. We were in the bottom 5 teams in the NHL in 2015, and we are still in the bottom 5 in 2020. The roster needs a total makeover and to get results faster we need to trade the guys who would net us a decent return. Guys like Simmonds, Zacha, Wood, etc are not going to get us that will really move the needle. As for having vets around, we could always find some cheap via UFA a la Stafford. Yeah they may not be good, but they are vets and seem to be respected by the locker room. I take a look at the Rangers and they have traded a lot of favorites in the past few seasons (Brassard, Vesey, Hayes, Zucc, Miller, McD, etc) and they are certainly ahead of us on the rebuild curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: Right now their playoff chances are barely higher than NJs. Holding onto the picks is the higher chance of success play vs selling out another year or two on a hail mary bid to keep Eichel. I doubt a squeak into the playoffs with a first round exit would keep him anyway. Eichel is under contract until the end of the 25-26 season, the only consolation for him is he didn't get a NMC or NTC And man does that Skinner contract look absolutely atrocious so far. As much as our team pains the hell out of me, could you imagine going through that kind of partial rebuild for over a decade and have one President's Trophy to show for it? Not even a conference title by accident. (although, defensive injuries killed them in what, 06?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said: I think they are, yes. No one said sign them to lifetime deals, but upping them both for another 3-4 years after next season isn't going to break the bank. We won’t have the contracts of Zajac, Greene, Schneider, or Subban in 3 years. Plus no Taylor Hall to pay for. The team needs a purge, yes. But not if guys that actually contribute. The "trade everything that isn't nailed down" thing every February works for a while, but eventually you need players on the ice. Or we'll get to enjoy second liners like Rooney and Hayden for a few years. Coleman may do this. Palms, I am not so sure. Both players would really have to like playing here and I am not sure if I would count on that. This team has never done the "trade everything that isn't nailed down" thing; at least not in the Shero era. Looking over the past few years with the exception of the Hall trade we have traded either picks, prospects, or guys on expiring contracts. In other words the obvious and easy trades. As much as I am horrified at Rooney and Hayden being on the second line for us, that may not happen if we actually get something decent in return for Coleman and Palms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Just now, jagknife said: Eichel is under contract until the end of the 25-26 season, the only consolation for him is he didn't get a NMC or NTC And man does that Skinner contract look absolutely atrocious so far. As much as our team pains the hell out of me, could you imagine going through that kind of partial rebuild for over a decade and have one President's Trophy to show for it? Not even a conference title by accident. (although, defensive injuries killed them in what, 06?) They went to the finals twice in their history; once in the 70's against Philly and again in 1999 against Dallas. That's two ECF champs titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: A month ago I probably agree with you regarding Palms and Coleman. Now, not so much. They are both Shero guys and the Shero tenure by all intents and purposes is a failure. We were in the bottom 5 teams in the NHL in 2015, and we are still in the bottom 5 in 2020. The roster needs a total makeover and to get results faster we need to trade the guys who would net us a decent return. Guys like Simmonds, Zacha, Wood, etc are not going to get us that will really move the needle. As for having vets around, we could always find some cheap via UFA a la Stafford. Yeah they may not be good, but they are vets and seem to be respected by the locker room. I take a look at the Rangers and they have traded a lot of favorites in the past few seasons (Brassard, Vesey, Hayes, Zucc, Miller, McD, etc) and they are certainly ahead of us on the rebuild curve. I'd rather have Coleman at $3m for 4-5 years than a Stafford-type guy for one at league minimum. God he drove me insane. Just now, DevsMan84 said: They went to the finals twice in their history; once in the 70's against Philly and again in 1999 against Dallas. That's two ECF champs titles. The 70's aren't in the last decade-plus....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Just now, jagknife said: I'd rather have Coleman at $3m for 4-5 years than a Stafford-type guy for one at league minimum. God he drove me insane. I'd rather have the return that Coleman could give us versus keeping him around and us continuing to be middling in perpetuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: I'd rather have the return that Coleman could give us versus keeping him around and us continuing to be middling in perpetuity. One does not necessarily have to lead to the other. Coleman looks like he's just getting warmed up...not that I think he's going to get THAT much better than he is now, but he's a guy who looks like he's going to be far more of a help than a hindrance. Ditto Palms. And Coleman isn't a Shero guy...Lou drafted him in the third round (75th overall) back in 2011. I get wanting to change things up, just don't think that players who really haven't been a problem should be guilty by association. Neither of these guys is the problem. I say keep them, Hughes, Nico, and Mac. Wanna let Zajac play through the end of his deal, OK. Everyone else is expendable...of course, they won't ALL be gone, but the Devils can definitely start moving them out (or letting them leave). If they hit on their first rounders this year (and some of the defenseman currently in the system can come up here and figure things out), there could be some nice "from within" talent coming up. And yeah I kinda realize this is very optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: Coleman may do this. Palms, I am not so sure. Both players would really have to like playing here and I am not sure if I would count on that. This team has never done the "trade everything that isn't nailed down" thing; at least not in the Shero era. Looking over the past few years with the exception of the Hall trade we have traded either picks, prospects, or guys on expiring contracts. In other words the obvious and easy trades. As much as I am horrified at Rooney and Hayden being on the second line for us, that may not happen if we actually get something decent in return for Coleman and Palms. I agree with a lot of this, but I don't think we are getting anything back for them that we can use for the next 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 34 minutes ago, Daniel said: If trading one of them helps you end up with a draft haul of Byfield, Drysdale and Jack Quinn, I could imagine it. For the future yeah but I was just talking about the rest of this season and that's why I'm happy I have all my buybacks left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Coleman has been a great player on a crap team. he has “overachieved” two years in a row now, when does that just become “achieving”? If we were to rebuild, have a good team, and have a guy like that on the 3rd line and PK, I would be on board with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, mfitz804 said: Coleman has been a great player on a crap team. he has “overachieved” two years in a row now, when does that just become “achieving”? If we were to rebuild, have a good team, and have a guy like that on the 3rd line and PK, I would be on board with that. ESPN says that at most he's worth a third round pick in two years and waiver fodder so looks like we'll have to get what we can now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I think we need guys that are personal to this team, we should hold on to Kyle and Blake and even have them share captaincy responsibilities with Nico next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: One does not necessarily have to lead to the other. Coleman looks like he's just getting warmed up...not that I think he's going to get THAT much better than he is now, but he's a guy who looks like he's going to be far more of a help than a hindrance. Ditto Palms. And Coleman isn't a Shero guy...Lou drafted him in the third round (75th overall) back in 2011. I get wanting to change things up, just don't think that players who really haven't been a problem should be guilty by association. Neither of these guys is the problem. I say keep them, Hughes, Nico, and Mac. Wanna let Zajac play through the end of his deal, OK. Everyone else is expendable...of course, they won't ALL be gone, but the Devils can definitely start moving them out (or letting them leave). If they hit on their first rounders this year (and some of the defenseman currently in the system can come up here and figure things out), there could be some nice "from within" talent coming up. And yeah I kinda realize this is very optimistic. It is very optimistic. This is essentially hoping that every domino falls the right way. I don't want that thin of a margin for error. The team has drafted better under Shero, but not significantly better if you take out the 2 first overalls. We need to continue to re-stock the prospect pool and land on some of our picks sooner rather than later. I want to maximize our chances of finally hitting on our picks rather than keeping guys around while we are still trying to get good only for them to be good players on a bad team for an indefinite amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: I agree with a lot of this, but I don't think we are getting anything back for them that we can use for the next 2-3 years. If the Zucker trade is any indication, we could get something halfway decent. I have already written off the next 2-3 years as more rebuilding years due to the fallout of Shero's tenure. 7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Coleman has been a great player on a crap team. he has “overachieved” two years in a row now, when does that just become “achieving”? If we were to rebuild, have a good team, and have a guy like that on the 3rd line and PK, I would be on board with that. By the time we are good either 1) his contract would be up or 2) he wouldn't be nearly as effective as he is now. Thanks, but no thanks to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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