Devils 2019-20 Lineup/Notes Thread

[DevsMan84]

3 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Pointing out Ty Smith's offensive prowess is nothing new, and doesn't really help. He didn't win a spot in camp because he sucked. He was bad defensively and wasn't able to shine in the offensive zone either. He almost begged the Devils to send him back. That Mueller sucks isn't a legitimate platform for you to rue the day the Devils relegated Smith to juniors, he earned his way there. If anything, it means the Devils need to find another defensemen and the Devils knew that going in. Of course, Carrick has still yet to play. Even in the very unlikely [nearly impossible] scenario that Smith, today, could provide better defensive play than Mueller, the difference between the two would still be so marginal that switching the two on the roster would result in an insignificant difference.

On a related note, the defense is bad but I doubt they're THIS bad. They've had to work out of trouble from their own end a lot, including after Hughes and Co. ice the puck, and have been the victims of various other bad decisions by forwards. That's not to say they have been good, they haven't. Mueller sucks but Ty Smith isn't the answer. Sorry, I wanted him to be too.

lol yes it is.  You put your best players in the lineup and even if Smith is a hair better than Mueller, you put Smith in over Mueller.  Not only that, but Smith has so much more upside (at least potentially) that after seeing Mueller for 2+ seasons now, I am pretty confident in saying we have seen the best Mueller can do which isn't much.  Also, playing on the defensive side of the game was such a big deal to this team and coaching staff then guys like Butcher would have sat in the player's suite more often.  However, they haven't.

The whole meritocracy bullsh!t that Hynes has always spewed is just what I said it is; BS.

[Neb00rs]

29 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

lol yes it is.  You put your best players in the lineup and even if Smith is a hair better than Mueller, you put Smith in over Mueller.  Not only that, but Smith has so much more upside (at least potentially) that after seeing Mueller for 2+ seasons now, I am pretty confident in saying we have seen the best Mueller can do which isn't much.  Also, playing on the defensive side of the game was such a big deal to this team and coaching staff then guys like Butcher would have sat in the player's suite more often.  However, they haven't.

The whole meritocracy bullsh!t that Hynes has always spewed is just what I said it is; BS.

This is you making a straw man argument and ignoring the point of my post. Smith is almost surely worse than Mueller defensively, which is why he couldn't make the NHL and in the extremely hypothetical and entirely unlikely scenario Smith was marginally better, the difference would be so small as to render the roster swap insignificant and we'd still be having the same conversation on the board today about how to rebound from the first two disastrous games. You could make the argument that the Devils need to go out and find another defenseman - which as rumors have it, they're exploring that option.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Neb00rs

[DevsMan84]

1 minute ago, Neb00rs said:

This is you making a straw man argument and ignoring the point of my post. Smith is almost surely worse than Mueller defensively, which is why he couldn't make the NHL and in the extremely hypothetical and entirely unlikely scenario Smith was marginally better, the difference would be so small as to render the roster swap insignificant and we'd still be having the same conversation on the board today about how to rebound from the first two disastrous games. You could make the argument that the Devils need to go out and find another defenseman - which as rumors have it, they're exploring that option.

lol so because Smith might be ever so marginally worse than Mueller while being better at practically everything else we send Smith down?  Again, this is based on a might be scenario.  Mueller is likely in the lineup simply because Shero doesn't want to give up on a guy he gave up a 2nd and a 3rd for.  This is beyond stupid because Mueller is just outright poor at what he is doing already and that's just defensively.

Yeah the Devils can get in line with the other 10+ teams looking for defense as well.  Wonderful spot to be in.  Maybe if Shero can admit when he is wrong once in a while and maybe if the coaching staff were a little better evaluator of talent we wouldn't be in this position of having to look around the NHL for a D-man because Mueller sucks at everything.

I really don't know how anyone here is still defending the Lizard-man anymore.  I am sick and tired of the team just coming out looking totally unprepared night after night while clinging onto guys like Nas.  It's mind boggling at this point.  Are you all really that afraid that if we fire Hynes we lose Hall because Hall has openly stated how much he loves Hynes?  Is that is what is causing this?

[Neb00rs]

13 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

lol so because Smith might be ever so marginally worse than Mueller while being better at practically everything else we send Smith down?  Again, this is based on a might be scenario.  Mueller is likely in the lineup simply because Shero doesn't want to give up on a guy he gave up a 2nd and a 3rd for.  This is beyond stupid because Mueller is just outright poor at what he is doing already and that's just defensively.

Again, straw man. The extreme hypothetical presented was that Smith is marginally better. That doesn't mean the reality is that Smith is marginally worse. The reality is probably that Smith is significantly worse than Mueller at playing defense. If Mueller was in the lineup because Shero doesn't want to give up a guy he gave up assets for, then why is he not only on the roster, but playing? At least for the first two games, Mueller was in because Hynes and co. felt he was the best option.

If Smith had a use right now, it would be on the powerplay, and we have plenty of defensive players that can fill that offensive role already. If Smith had at least played well in camp, maybe there'd be some debate to have here. But he didn't. You don't give someone a roster spot because you super like him and are totally excited to see him wear the jersey.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Neb00rs

[Devilsfan118]

3 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I like this, quite a bit actually.  Wood seems to be a one-trick pony with the IQ of a walnut, and Simmonds looks too slow out there to be on any of the top 3 lines.  Sucks to pay a guy 5M to play 4th line minutes, but he'll get his ice time on the PP I imagine.

Also love the idea of Coleman and Palms 'sheltering' Hughes on that 2nd line, and Gusev getting some help on D with Nico as his C.

All this said - you and I both know we won't see this on Wednesday.  Expect Hayden and/or Rooney to be dressed.

Hynes.. I don't know man.  Maybe I'm missing something but isn't Rooney more or less an AHL level forward?

Edited October 7, 2019 by Devilsfan118

[Neb00rs]

Lmao, from my perspective at this point I have to give Hynes some credit and say, "Close enough," though, yeah I'd like it to be Palms next to Hughes instead of Simmonds. Still, he's got the right idea now with Coleman on the left of Hughes and Gusev on the right of Hall-Hischier.

 

Boqvist/Zacha scratched for Hayden/Rooney doesn't bother me. Next game is the start of another back-to-back so there will likely be some swaps for game 2.

[sundstrom]

15 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Hynes.. I don't know man.  Maybe I'm missing something but isn't Rooney more or less an AHL level forward?

i need the zacha almost meme because this looks about 75% correct. simmonds cannot keep up with Hughes - switch him with palmieri.

while i despise making zacha a scapegoat, against the flyers, if you want that grit 4th line, I'll reluctantly allow it.

d pairs are what they should be so they got that one right.

[jagknife]

13 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

Lmao, from my perspective at this point I have to give Hynes some credit and say, "Close enough," though, yeah I'd like it to be Palms next to Hughes instead of Simmonds. Still, he's got the right idea now with Coleman on the left of Hughes and Gusev on the right of Hall-Hischier.

 

Boqvist/Zacha scratched for Hayden/Rooney doesn't bother me. Next game is the start of another back-to-back so there will likely be some swaps for game 2.

And its Philly, I don't trust them to not try and run Hughes or Nico or anyone really.

at least they don't still have the mouth breather Gudas. That's a problem we'll have to worry about against Washington with him AND Wilson

[Neb00rs]

12 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

i need the zacha almost meme because this looks about 75% correct. simmonds cannot keep up with Hughes - switch him with palmieri.

I'll bet good money Simmonds doesn't stay on that line past the first period.

[Devs3cups]

44 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Hynes.. I don't know man.  Maybe I'm missing something but isn't Rooney more or less an AHL level forward?

Coleman and Hughes is an interesting duo. I can see it. 

[SterioDesign]

i personally havent been too impressed with Simmonds so far, he just seem to slow and stiff all the time

[jagknife]

12 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i personally havent been too impressed with Simmonds so far, he just seem to slow and stiff all the time

I'm hoping he'll find his groove, as someone else said, as a bottom 6 guy and PP specialist. Kinda like how Greene should be used as the season progresses: Bottom pair, PK specialist.

[NJDevils1214]

54 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I'm hoping he'll find his groove, as someone else said, as a bottom 6 guy and PP specialist. Kinda like how Greene should be used as the season progresses: Bottom pair, PK specialist.

At this point the entire team needs to find their groove. I'm not going to pick on an individual player at this juncture. 

[mfitz804]

2 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

Boqvist/Zacha scratched for Hayden/Rooney doesn't bother me. Next game is the start of another back-to-back so there will likely be some swaps for game 2.

It's a travesty. You can't scratch a guy in the third game of his career year. 

[DevsMan84]

3 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

Again, straw man. The extreme hypothetical presented was that Smith is marginally better. That doesn't mean the reality is that Smith is marginally worse. The reality is probably that Smith is significantly worse than Mueller at playing defense. If Mueller was in the lineup because Shero doesn't want to give up a guy he gave up assets for, then why is he not only on the roster, but playing? At least for the first two games, Mueller was in because Hynes and co. felt he was the best option.

If Smith had a use right now, it would be on the powerplay, and we have plenty of defensive players that can fill that offensive role already. If Smith had at least played well in camp, maybe there'd be some debate to have here. But he didn't. You don't give someone a roster spot because you super like him and are totally excited to see him wear the jersey.

You keeping jumping to that conclusion while continuously shouting strawman.  You went into hypotheticals and so I went into them.  Smith is better than Mueller no matter how you slice it; either marginally or substantially.  Why you think I have some other motive other than me thinking Smith is better than Mueller is beyond me, but that's the argument you keep putting forward.

 

[mfitz804]

11 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

You keeping jumping to that conclusion while continuously shouting strawman.  You went into hypotheticals and so I went into them.  Smith is better than Mueller no matter how you slice it; either marginally or substantially.  Why you think I have some other motive other than me thinking Smith is better than Mueller is beyond me, but that's the argument you keep putting forward.

 

Don't listen to this sh!t, Smith is clearly his cousin. Gotta support the family!

 

[Neb00rs]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

You keeping jumping to that conclusion while continuously shouting strawman.  You went into hypotheticals and so I went into them.  Smith is better than Mueller no matter how you slice it; either marginally or substantially.  Why you think I have some other motive other than me thinking Smith is better than Mueller is beyond me, but that's the argument you keep putting forward.

 

I apologize for continuing to point out straw man, but you did seem to respond twice to arguments I didn't make. That said, if you're argument is just "I think Smith is a better defensive player today than Mirco Mueller is," then okay. I just doubt, whether fair or not, that you have any basis for making that judgement aside from, "I'm super excited about Ty Smith." It didn't help that the introduction to your tirade today began with a posting of Smith's point production in the WHL thus far.

[Satans Hockey]

Gary Glitter still getting royalties from the hey song made the news again cause of the Joker movie... 

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/10/07/joker-convicted-pedophile-gary-glitter-set-to-earn-big-royalties.html

[NJDevils1214]

17 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Gary Glitter still getting royalties from the hey song made the news again cause of the Joker movie... 

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/10/07/joker-convicted-pedophile-gary-glitter-set-to-earn-big-royalties.html

Potentially unpopular opinion warning - I don't care about him getting the money. He's old, already rich, and also did his time. Hopefully he'll be dead soon and then the controversy can die with him. It is up to each individual to separate the music from the "artist" I guess. Some might not want to, but not everyone wants to go around covering their ears because this old loser might make a dollar on it. You'd think the money was going to a practicing war criminal with the way some people react.

[Satans Hockey]

2 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Potentially unpopular opinion warning - I don't care about him getting the money. He's old, already rich, and also did his time. Hopefully he'll be dead soon and then the controversy can die with him. It is up to each individual to separate the music from the "artist" I guess. Some might not want to, but not everyone wants to go around covering their ears because this old loser might make a dollar on it. You'd think the money was going to a practicing war criminal with the way some people react.

He's actually currently in jail still and doesn't get out until 2031 unless he gets out early. He'll probably die in jail at this point since he's already 75.

I'm not keen on giving him any money until he loses the rights to the song / dies. Sure he's not a practicing war criminal but he's still a horrible piece of sh!t pedophile and rapist.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

18 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

I apologize for continuing to point out straw man, but you did seem to respond twice to arguments I didn't make. That said, if you're argument is just "I think Smith is a better defensive player today than Mirco Mueller is," then okay. I just doubt, whether fair or not, that you have any basis for making that judgement aside from, "I'm super excited about Ty Smith." It didn't help that the introduction to your tirade today began with a posting of Smith's point production in the WHL thus far.

Smith's team at first glance appears to be loaded with "vets"...two 20-year-olds (soon to be 3 of them), and a fair number of 18 and 19-year-olds...(14) 18-and-overs on his team, including Smith...but once I checked about 7 other teams, I found that those teams all had about the same number of 18 and overs. 

If anything that doesn't make me feel that badly about Smith getting more seasoning, as I think the general feeling was that he was going to be beating up on a bunch of 16-year-olds, when it turns out that his league is actually a little older in general than we probably thought.  But for me it still comes down to the same thing...Smith had every chance to make the team, but in the end didn't do enough, and didn't show enough to have anyone believe that he was definitely going to figure things out over the course of a nine-game tryout.   

That being said, though I understand why Mueller's been given chances so far (the 2nd and 4th rounders given up to acquire him, the fact that he was a first-rounder himself, and that he's still young at 24), he's really gotta start showing something more soon.   

Edited October 8, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[DevsMan84]

13 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Potentially unpopular opinion warning - I don't care about him getting the money. He's old, already rich, and also did his time. Hopefully he'll be dead soon and then the controversy can die with him. It is up to each individual to separate the music from the "artist" I guess. Some might not want to, but not everyone wants to go around covering their ears because this old loser might make a dollar on it. You'd think the money was going to a practicing war criminal with the way some people react.

This is a horrible take any way you slice it.

All this just so we can get a goal song back and the masses can scream "you suck" to it.  SMH

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Smith's team at first glance appears to be loaded with "vets"...two 20-year-olds (soon to be 3 of them), and a fair number of 18 and 19-year-olds...(14) 18-and-overs on his team, including Smith...but once I checked about 7 other teams, I found that those teams all had about the same number of 18 and overs. 

If anything that doesn't make me feel that badly about Smith getting more seasoning, as I think the general feeling was that he was going to be beating up on a bunch of 16-year-olds, when it turns out that his league is actually a little older in general than we probably though.  But for me it still comes down to the same thing...Smith had every chance to make the team, but in the end didn't do enough, and didn't show enough to have anyone believe that he was definitely going to figure things out over the course of a nine-game tryout.   

That being said, though I understand why Mueller's been given chances so far (the 2nd and 4th rounders given up to acquire him, the fact that he was a first-rounder himself, and that he's still young at 24), he's really gotta start showing something more soon.   

Smith did better than Mueller.  Period.  End of story.  Mueller gets the benefit of a doubt because of age (which sometimes does and does not play into a factor here depending on player) and because of what Shero gave up for him.

This is Mueller's third year and he looks exactly the same as he did in his first year here; terrible.  Even Killjoy improved here over time.

[NJDevils1214]

3 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

He's actually currently in jail still and doesn't get out until 2031 unless he gets out early. He'll probably die in jail at this point since he's already 75.

I'm not keen on giving him any money until he loses the rights to the song / dies. Sure he's not a practicing war criminal but he's still a horrible piece of sh!t pedophile and rapist.

I get it. That is totally your choice and I don't disagree that the guy is a piece of sh!t. All I am saying is Imagine filtering every bit of media you consumed though because of the actions of the artist. Tons of famous people have done morally contemptible things. Some things we don't even know about. Where do you draw the line then? Do you choose to not consume their art based on only the things they were proven of or also include accusations? It is a slippery slope. I feel like if we held them all to a standard 70% of Hollywood would be unwatchable. To me that is just punishing yourself. Feel free, but not everyone wants to do that. 

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

This is a horrible take any way you slice it.

All this just so we can get a goal song back and the masses can scream "you suck" to it.  SMH

I never said anything about the goal song, you must be reading someone else's comments or are putting words in my mouth.

[Neb00rs]

20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Smith's team at first glance appears to be loaded with "vets"...two 20-year-olds (soon to be 3 of them), and a fair number of 18 and 19-year-olds...(14) 18-and-overs on his team, including Smith...but once I checked about 7 other teams, I found that those teams all had about the same number of 18 and overs. 

If anything that doesn't make me feel that badly about Smith getting more seasoning, as I think the general feeling was that he was going to be beating up on a bunch of 16-year-olds, when it turns out that his league is actually a little older in general than we probably though.  But for me it still comes down to the same thing...Smith had every chance to make the team, but in the end didn't do enough, and didn't show enough to have anyone believe that he was definitely going to figure things out over the course of a nine-game tryout.   

That being said, though I understand why Mueller's been given chances so far (the 2nd and 4th rounders given up to acquire him, the fact that he was a first-rounder himself, and that he's still young at 24), he's really gotta start showing something more soon.   

Because Smith wasn't good enough in the pre-season, whether his WHL relegation is best for him or not really doesn't matter - he didn't earn a spot on the team. We all know the transfer agreement between the NHL and CHL isn't ideal but it is what it is.

Some people on this board seem to be working off the logically fallacious thinking, "If Mueller is this bad, then Smith must be better" or perhaps more fairly, "If Mueller is this bad, then Smith should have made the team." They can't seem to process that, both Mueller and Smith can suck - though obviously Smith's age means he has plenty of time to develop still. Based on Smith's play in camp, Mueller is almost certainly a better defender than Smith right now. That doesn't mean Mueller is good, it speaks to how unready Smith is and yes, the Devils might be even worse right now with Smith on the roster - or at least, about the same. If Smith was a better defender than Mueller he would have made the team - Rooney and Hayden are not so valuable that if Smith was good enough to play they couldn't be waived.

Mueller most likely didn't impress the coaches in camp either. That's the likely cause for all the rumors surrounding the Devils looking for another d-man. This is the NHL and the Devils are, as of recent, in "win now" mode. This means, at least I'd assume, that the Devils did not see the D battle in training camp as a binary choice between Mueller and Smith. Because Smith and Mueller both looked sh!tty in camp and Carrick didn't look that good either, they relegated Smith to juniors and are shopping for a Mueller replacement. The latest target, according to rumors, is Mark Pysyk:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-opening-night-promises-intrigue-fireworks/

Quote

Another defender I think New Jersey’s looked at is Florida’s Mark Pysyk.

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Neb00rs