Devils 2019-20 Lineup/Notes Thread

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Without beating up on her too much...I think she's one of those people who simply doesn't realize that she's not nearly as witty and funny as she thinks she is.  And that type can definitely be annoying at times as a result. 

Bingo.

I know I can simply scroll past it, but the last thing I need to see is her saying her lucky shoes didn't work immediately after we got destroyed in a game.  She could "read the room" so to speak better.

[Nicomo]

20 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Bingo.

I know I can simply scroll past it, but the last thing I need to see is her saying her lucky shoes didn't work immediately after we got destroyed in a game.  She could "read the room" so to speak better.

So she is the female mfitz...

he blames his lucky socks lol

[mfitz804]

36 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

So she is the female mfitz...

he blames his lucky socks lol

I mean the line between is narrower than I thought...

[SterioDesign]

9 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Looked up PK's game log from last year...suffice it to say that this sudden lack of offense really isn't so sudden.  After notching 17 points through his first 26 GP last season (pretty normal for him), he disappeared...finished with 14 points over his last 37 GP...add that to this season's production, and that's just 19 points over his last 59 GP (and none in his last 10). 

I really hope he's not on nearly as much of a fast-track decline as he seems to be. 

typically from what i can remember its often like this. I suspect early in the season teams are still adjusting so he has more room to take shots but i think by now no matter what system teams are playing they basically figured him out so its easier to block his shot attempts... which we're obviously seeing

[mfitz804]

9 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Looked up PK's game log from last year...suffice it to say that this sudden lack of offense really isn't so sudden.  After notching 17 points through his first 26 GP last season (pretty normal for him), he disappeared...finished with 14 points over his last 37 GP...add that to this season's production, and that's just 19 points over his last 59 GP (and none in his last 10). 

I really hope he's not on nearly as much of a fast-track decline as he seems to be. 

I don’t like the way he moves, it’s very awkward and not particularly effective, it kind of looks like he’s always turning the wrong way. 

Also, most telegraphed slap shot I’ve ever seen, so easy to tell when it’s a fake or a shot. 

[titans04]

9 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Looked up PK's game log from last year...suffice it to say that this sudden lack of offense really isn't so sudden.  After notching 17 points through his first 26 GP last season (pretty normal for him), he disappeared...finished with 14 points over his last 37 GP...add that to this season's production, and that's just 19 points over his last 59 GP (and none in his last 10). 

I really hope he's not on nearly as much of a fast-track decline as he seems to be. 

Unfortunately I think he's well on his way. Third highest paid D man in the league! #Brutal

 

As for Amanda's post - meh I just fail to see the humor in stuff like that when the Titanic is once again sinking. So just another vote for being tone death - but certainly nothing to be highly upset about. So easy to get agitated when the on ice product is mediocre at best for the umpteenth year in a row.

Edited November 26, 2019 by titans04

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

38 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I don’t like the way he moves, it’s very awkward and not particularly effective, it kind of looks like he’s always turning the wrong way. 

Also, most telegraphed slap shot I’ve ever seen, so easy to tell when it’s a fake or a shot. 

Well said, another word that comes to mind is “clunky”.  He rarely looks smooth or natural out there.  I’ve already reached a point with him where I’m not expecting much.

And yeah, agree fully on your take re:  his shot.  Also well said.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I don’t like the way he moves, it’s very awkward and not particularly effective, it kind of looks like he’s always turning the wrong way. 

Also, most telegraphed slap shot I’ve ever seen, so easy to tell when it’s a fake or a shot. 

He has always skated that way, but has always been productive.  All of our defenseman are underperforming however they skate, yet the people whose job it is to get them to perform have absolute job security, because our GM has complete job security and those are his buddies from Pittsburgh.

Aside from having filthy rich owners, there is nothing good about how this organization is run.  

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

He has always skated that way, but has always been productive. 

I’ll admit not having watched him much before he was on our team. I think CR1976’s description is apt, he’s clunky. 

[Nicomo]

13 minutes ago, Daniel said:

He has always skated that way, but has always been productive.  All of our defenseman are underperforming however they skate, yet the people whose job it is to get them to perform have absolute job security, because our GM has complete job security and those are his buddies from Pittsburgh.

Aside from having filthy rich owners, there is nothing good about how this organization is run.  

Sami Vatanen is actually having a pretty nice season. 

[MadDog2020]

9 hours ago, Daniel said:

Aside from having filthy rich owners, there is nothing good about how this organization is run.  

Exactly how I feel. Losing is now tolerated and it’s a joke. The Fitzgerald sh!t was a joke. Winning is not a priority for this franchise.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

Exactly how I feel. Losing is now tolerated and it’s a joke. The Fitzgerald sh!t was a joke. Winning is not a priority for this franchise.

I expect this from Daniel, but you're better than this.  I get that we're all frustrated...there's no way that any fan can be happy with the way that this season turned out at the quarter-turn mark. 

But Shero DID try to make moves to help the Devils take a step forward.  Unfortunately, as I will recap below, enough has gone wrong early:

1) Schneider AGAIN turned into a complete pumpkin, after finishing up strongly enough last season to lead many to believe that there was at least a solid chance that he could have a bounceback year.  As we saw, once AGAIN he was awful, and once again he REALLY hurt this team.  Whatever minor trust I had in him coming into this year is gone, and hopefully that complete lack of trust is shared by the front office, because nothing against Cory the PERSON, but Cory the PLAYER can't ever be given another chance to play whenever the Devils are relevant...and I'm not even much of a fan of him playing here even if the Devils are irrelevant...no more "If Cory can build off..." scenarios for me.

2) Gusev hasn't made an immediate impact...he's been more like a work-in-progress rookie, with some occasional "bright spot" moments.  That would've been fine if he was a young kid in the first year of an entry-level deal, but based on his KHL numbers, his age, and his contract, it's clear that Shero thought that he could come in and almost immediately be a solid contributor.  That's not to say that it can't happen later this season or next year, but he hasn't been a consistent help yet (and I still think scratching him was the right move at the time...he seems to have settled in more since then).

3) The PK move might be the one that's going to blow up in a big way, for a number of reasons.  I was 100% on-board with Shero being patient with allocating his cap space for the right guys, and not just throwing money at UFAs like James Neal  (just to mollify the "Well gotta spend on SOMEONE" types).  But using a big chunk of that space on a guy that looks like he might be somewhere between a fast-track decline and almost washed-up is not going to sit well with anyone...as always, there's clearly hindsight involved with this, as most Devils fans were on-board with this move when it was made (it didn't seem that costly in assets), and the Devils had the cap space to take the risk (and with some of the more expensive contracts coming off the cap soon, Subban's money shouldn't outright cripple the Devils).  But as we well know, it's a results-oriented business, and though I've rarely had any issues with Shero's moves and think just about all of them made sense, the fact is the more recent ones are not working out...MoJo, Mueller, and PK in particular. 

If it's DBA Hynes still being here that you're upset about (and I'm with you in that I'm not thrilled with him or his staff...at the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing Nas banished ASAP, because I don't think that guy brings a damned thing), I think it's more about Shero not being a Babcock guy...if Shero thought he could be the answer, I do think he would've at least TRIED to make that happen.  I think these stories coming out about how much players have disliked both Babcock himself and his methods, and just how much of a real d!ck he could be, is actually going to be good for Babcock in the long run.  He basically saw a team willing to pay him over $23 million to get lost because they decided that he was THAT much of a detriment to them moving forward, and now he's reading left and right how players either found playing for him to be "tense" at best, and a borderline nightmare at worst.  I honestly don't think he realized that about himself...and it's this kind of sh!t that gets you to do some real soul-searching and makes you realize that maybe all of those detractors have a point (if all of this doesn't do it, then I don't know what could).  Babcock could come back a better man and could very well evolve into Babcock 2.0 (much like Coughlin did with the Giants), and I'll admit it, I might be interested to see what THAT guy could potentially bring to the Devils in the future.  But I don't think you figure this sh!t out right away.  I think it will take Babcock several months to truly get there...so not so sure that he'd be a legit solution right now. 

I'd be OK with Fitz being the interim guy...but would he really make that much of a difference, if everyone else was still there?  I think he was there to give Shero detailed info on if the current issues are staff-related or player-related.  We'll see what comes out of that.

The Devils are 8-6-2 in games not started by Cory (and also 8-6-2 since the 0-4-2 start from Hell)...I don't want to blow that up to make it sound like that's awesome or anything, and Blackwood clearly has to be better than he's been overall, but I do think Schneider and the constantly uncertainty that he brings when he's around was definitely a drain on this team.  I think his being gone is addition-by-subtraction at its finest.  I want to see where this goes, if Blackwood can find some consistency and be a young goalie that actually sticks here for a change.  I reiterate that I do think this team is trying to win, but when the two big "win now" moves don't pay off immediately, and perhaps your biggest question mark in Schneider plays to a worst-case scenario performance...well, this is what you can get. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[HellOnICE]

My fear is that I feel the young guys aren't making huge steps, and that's coaching. 

[Daniel]

17 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I expect this from Daniel, but you're better than this.  I get that we're all frustrated...there's no way that any fan can be happy with the way that this season turned out at the quarter-turn mark. 

But Shero DID try to make moves to help the Devils take a step forward.  Unfortunately, as I will recap below, enough has gone wrong early:

1) Schneider AGAIN turned into a complete pumpkin, after finishing up strongly enough last season to lead many to believe that there was at least a solid chance that he could have a bounceback year.  As we saw, once AGAIN he was awful, and once again he REALLY hurt this team.  Whatever minor trust I had in him coming into this year is gone, and hopefully that complete lack of trust is shared by the front office, because nothing against Cory the PERSON, but Cory the PLAYER can't ever be given another chance to play whenever the Devils are relevant...and I'm not even much of a fan of him playing here even if the Devils are irrelevant...no more "If Cory can build off..." scenarios for me.

2) Gusev hasn't made an immediate impact...he's been more like a work-in-progress rookie, with some occasional "bright spot" moments.  That would've been fine if he was a young kid in the first year of an entry-level deal, but based on his KHL numbers, his age, and his contract, it's clear that Shero thought that he could come in and almost immediately be a solid contributor.  That's not to say that it can't happen later this season or next year, but he hasn't been a consistent help yet (and I still think scratching him was the right move at the time...he seems to have settled in more since then).

3) The PK move might be the one that's going to blow up in a big way, for a number of reasons.  I was 100% on-board with Shero being patient with allocating his cap space for the right guys, and not just throwing money at UFAs like James Neal  (just to mollify the "Well gotta spend on SOMEONE" types).  But using a big chunk of that space on a guy that looks like he might be somewhere between a fast-track decline and almost washed-up is not going to sit well with anyone...as always, there's clearly hindsight involved with this, as most Devils fans were on-board with this move when it was made (it didn't seem that costly in assets), and the Devils had the cap space to take the risk (and with some of the more expensive contracts coming off the cap soon, Subban's money shouldn't outright cripple the Devils).  But as we well know, it's a results-oriented business, and though I've rarely had any issues with Shero's moves and think just about all of them made sense, the fact is the more recent ones are not working out...MoJo, Mueller, and PK in particular. 

If it's DBA Hynes still being here that you're upset about (and I'm with you in that I'm not thrilled with him or his staff...at the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing Nas banished ASAP, because I don't think that guy brings a damned thing), I think it's more about Shero not being a Babcock guy...if Shero thought he could be the answer, I do think he would've at least TRIED to make that happen.  I think these stories coming out about how much players have disliked both Babcock himself and his methods, and just how much of a real d!ck he could be, is actually going to be good for Babcock in the long run.  He basically saw a team willing to pay him over $23 million to get lost because they decided that he was THAT much of a detriment to them moving forward, and now he's reading left and right how players either found playing for him to be "tense" at best, and a borderline nightmare at worst.  I honestly don't think he realized that about himself...and it's this kind of sh!t that gets you to do some real soul-searching and makes you realize that maybe all of those detractors have a point (if all of this doesn't do it, then I don't know what could).  Babcock could come back a better man and could very well evolve into Babcock 2.0 (much like Coughlin did with the Giants), and I'll admit it, I might be interested to see what THAT guy could potentially bring to the Devils in the future.  But I don't think you figure this sh!t out right away.  I think it will take Babcock several months to truly get there...so not so sure that he'd be a legit solution right now. 

I'd be OK with Fitz being the interim guy...but would he really make that much of a difference, if everyone else was still there?  I think he was there to give Shero detailed info on if the current issues are staff-related or player-related.  We'll see what comes out of that.

The Devils are 8-6-2 in games not started by Cory (and also 8-6-2 since the 0-4-2 start from Hell)...I don't want to blow that up to make it sound like that's awesome or anything, and Blackwood clearly has to be better than he's been overall, but I do think Schneider and the constantly uncertainty that he brings when he's around was definitely a drain on this team.  I think his being gone is addition-by-subtraction at its finest.  I want to see where this goes, if Blackwood can find some consistency and be a young goalie that actually sticks here for a change.  I reiterate that I do think this team is trying to win, but when the two big "win now" moves don't pay off immediately, and perhaps your biggest question mark in Schneider plays to a worst-case scenario performance...well, this is what you can get. 

Shero can make nice sounding moves on paper, knows how to talk to sportswriters, but he doesn't know how to build a winner.  You can cherry pick whatever streak you want, the fact of the matter is we have the third worst record in the league again and there are several players on this team who are not playing anywhere near their potential.  That is a result of the coaching, which Shero is responsible for, andwhich  he does nothing about it save this preposterous Fitzgerald move who I'm sure is reporting back to Shero saying "you're doing a great job, boss.  Didn't you see how we totally dominated the Red Wings?" 

 

[Daniel]

11 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

My fear is that I feel the young guys aren't making huge steps, and that's coaching. 

Yup.  Nico is very pedestrian now, and is not actually becoming a better player like he  should be.  Several players in his draft have already passed him.  Hughes is going to have a 30 point season if he's lucky.  I'm sure Hynes will do a great job with Lefrennier or Byfield though because he's a great coach since Ray Shero, who is a great GM per The Athletic, will stick with him no matter what since nothing could be either of their faults.

EDIT:  Players who have developed into better players than Nico from the 2017 draft:  Heiskenan, Makar, Petterson, Robert Thomas,  Necas, and by the end of the season Morgan Frost will be on this list too.  Even Nolan Patrick was starting to produce at a better rate.  Hard to overstate how awful a coach John Hynes is, but he's still here, and that's because Ray takes care of his buddies.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Daniel

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Exactly how I feel. Losing is now tolerated and it’s a joke. The Fitzgerald sh!t was a joke. Winning is not a priority for this franchise.

Losing isn't just tolerated, it's the actual plan. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Daniel

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

17 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Shero can make nice sounding moves on paper, knows how to talk to sportswriters, but he doesn't know how to build a winner.  You can cherry pick whatever streak you want, the fact of the matter is we have the third worst record in the league again and there are several players on this team who are not playing anywhere near their potential.  That is a result of the coaching, which Shero is responsible for, andwhich  he does nothing about it save this preposterous Fitzgerald move who I'm sure is reporting back to Shero saying "you're doing a great job, boss.  Didn't you see how we totally dominated the Red Wings?" 

OK, you're in charge.

I already said that I'm not a Hynes guy at this point, so if Shero wants to can him, so be it. 

Who are you replacing him with?  Don't tell me Babcock like it's a sure thing.  He'll want several years (obviously he won't get the same coin and term as he did with the Leafs, but hard to imagine that he won't want at least 3+, and I'm not even sure that three would be enough), and there's enough red flags with him that I can't just blindly hire him and hope that it works out. 

So if not Babcock...who?  You have Shero just supporting Hynes no matter what...I'm not so sure that's the case here...I don't think Shero some complacent dummy and I think he knows that Hynes may indeed not be the right guy anymore.  But I don't think he just wants to sh!tcan Hynes and just hire any warm body for the sake of doing so...if Shero doesn't go interim, then he gets one shot at this...if he chooses the wrong guy for the sake of making a change, what then?  Not saying that it's not frustrating to see DBA's face behind the bench...that part I get.  It's you constantly with the shrill "THE OWNERS SUCK THE GM SUCKS THE COACH SUCKS EVERYTHING SUCKS AHHHHHHHHH" screamfest that gets tiresome. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Daniel]

6 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

OK, you're in charge.

I already said that I'm not a Hynes guy at this point, so if Shero wants to can him, so be it. 

Who are you replacing him with?  Don't tell me Babcock like it's a sure thing.  He'll want several years (obviously he won't get the same coin and term as he did with the Leafs, but hard to imagine that he won't want at least 3+, and I'm not even sure that three would be enough), and there's enough red flags with him that I can't just blindly hire him and hope that it works out. 

So if not Babcock...who?  You have Shero just supporting Hynes no matter what...I'm not so sure that's the case here...I don't think Shero some complacent dummy and I think he knows that Hynes may indeed not be the right guy anymore.  But I don't think he just wants to sh!tcan Hynes and just hire any warm body for the sake of doing so...if Shero doesn't go interim, then he gets one shot at this...if he chooses the wrong guy for the sake of making a change, what then?  Not saying that it's not frustrating to see DBA's face behind the bench...that part I get.  It's you constantly with the shrill "THE OWNERS SUCK THE GM SUCKS THE COACH SUCKS EVERYTHING SUCKS AHHHHHHHHH" screamfest that gets tiresome. 

Easy, Guy Boucher.  He's a coach that wins if you give him a good roster, which they great Ray Shero with the sunglasses has supposedly put together. 

Whatever the case, when the whole thing is burning down in flames, the guy who needs answers is the great Rejean Shero, not me.  His answer is moar John Hynes.  How on earth does that not tell you have a GM who wants to lose.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Daniel

[HellOnICE]

6 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

OK, you're in charge.

I already said that I'm not a Hynes guy at this point, so if Shero wants to can him, so be it. 

Who are you replacing him with?  Don't tell me Babcock like it's a sure thing.  He'll want several years (obviously he won't get the same coin and term as he did with the Leafs, but hard to imagine that he won't want at least 3+, and I'm not even sure that three would be enough), and there's enough red flags with him that I can't just blindly hire him and hope that it works out. 

So if not Babcock...who?  You have Shero just supporting Hynes no matter what...I'm not so sure that's the case here...I don't think Shero some complacent dummy and I think he knows that Hynes may indeed not be the right guy anymore.  But I don't think he just wants to sh!tcan Hynes and just hire any warm body for the sake of doing so...if Shero doesn't go interim, then he gets one shot at this...if he chooses the wrong guy for the sake of making a change, what then?  Not saying that it's not frustrating to see DBA's face behind the bench...that part I get.  It's you constantly with the shrill "THE OWNERS SUCK THE GM SUCKS THE COACH SUCKS EVERYTHING SUCKS AHHHHHHHHH" screamfest that gets tiresome. 

My point on this is you don't need a replacement to replace Hynes. You need to know that Hynes and his staff isn't good enough, and won't be the guy to lead this team - you start from there. If the guy Ray thinks it out there is, great -hire him. I'm a fan of interim in these kinds of situations, just to reset the situation. We have guys in the organization who've coached before - Claude Noel, Peter Horachek - as a seat warmer - why not?

[Nicomo]

21 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Yup.  Nico is very pedestrian now, and is not actually becoming a better player like he  should be.  Several players in his draft have already passed him.  Hughes is going to have a 30 point season if he's lucky.  I'm sure Hynes will do a great job with Lefrennier or Byfield though because he's a great coach since Ray Shero, who is a great GM per The Athletic, will stick with him no matter what since nothing could be either of their faults.

EDIT:  Players who have developed into better players than Nico from the 2017 draft:  Heiskenan, Makar, Petterson, Robert Thomas,  Necas, and by the end of the season Morgan Frost will be on this list too.  Even Nolan Patrick was starting to produce at a better rate.  Hard to overstate how awful a coach John Hynes is, but he's still here, and that's because Ray takes care of his buddies.

You’re really reaching now. Robert Thomas is better than Nico Hischier? Martin Necas? Really? 

I’d say there’s two players from that draft clearly ahead of Nico at this point, and that’s Pettersson and Heiskenan. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

My point on this is you don't need a replacement to replace Hynes. You need to know that Hynes and his staff isn't good enough, and won't be the guy to lead this team - you start from there. If the guy Ray thinks it out there is, great -hire him. I'm a fan of interim in these kinds of situations, just to reset the situation. We have guys in the organization who've coached before - Claude Noel, Peter Horachek - as a seat warmer - why not?

Like I posted, I'd be OK with Fitz (not sure about the others, honestly) as an interim.  My issue is how many of the other guys are still here?  I'd rather see a full housecleaning.  But if we get an interim, like I said, I'd be OK with that. 

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

You’re really reaching now. Robert Thomas is better than Nico Hischier? Martin Necas? Really? 

I’d say there’s two players from that draft clearly ahead of Nico at this point, and that’s Pettersson and Heiskenan. 

All of those players are developing into better players than Nico, absolutely.  It's gonna get worse by the way when Hall gets traded.

[mfitz804]

32 minutes ago, Daniel said:

This preposterous Fitzgerald move

Sounds like my wife criticizing my “technique”. 

[Nicomo]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

All of those players are developing into better players than Nico, absolutely.  It's gonna get worse by the way when Hall gets traded.

Morgan Frost, who’s played all of 4 games in the NHL,  is devolving into a better player than a kid who stepped into the league at 18, scored 20 goals and 50+ Points...ok guy lol

[Daniel]

Just now, Nicomo said:

Morgan Frost, who’s played all of 4 games in the NHL,  is devolving into a better player than a kid who stepped into the league at 18, scored 20 goals and 50+ Points...ok guy lol

And what has happened to Nico's rate of production since then?  Morgan Frost will show he's turning into a progressively better player, or at least that's my prediction since the Flyers, for all their other faults as an organization, do a good job developing their young players.  Nico's development has very obviously stagnated.  It's not that it's Nico's fault, he's been coached to be a worse player than he ought to be.