Devils 2019-20 Lineup/Notes Thread

[MadDog2020]

6 minutes ago, Anhkheg said:

Tradeable assets IMO:

Forwards: Woods, Simmonds, honorable mentions Hayden and Rooney

Defense: Vatanen, Subban, Greene (I am pretty sure he will waive to play for a playoff team)

Goalie: Schneider

 

[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

4 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

lol, a guy getting shelled nightly in AHL and he only costs 6 million another 2 and a half years

[mfitz804]

5 hours ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

lol, a guy getting shelled nightly in AHL and he only costs 6 million another 2 and a half years

Tradeable in that we can spare him, I guess. Otherwise...

[Devilsfan118]

7 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Crazy that Subban could end up being traded a few months after all that pomp and circumstance and that big introductory press conference.....

Pretty embarrassing, really, from a marketing standpoint.

Whatever, it is what it is.  I don't think Subban is nearly as awful as he's looked and I'm hoping a couple GMs realize this.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

6 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Pretty embarrassing, really, from a marketing standpoint.

Whatever, it is what it is.  I don't think Subban is nearly as awful as he's looked and I'm hoping a couple GMs realize this.

I think Subban is a like a pitcher who used to throw 98 but now only hits 89 on the radar gun.  Some guys are able to adjust and still find ways to be successful (even though it's usually less so of course).  Some guys keep trying to blow people away even though they no longer can...with often ugly results.

Subban is going to have to become a different kind of player to stick around (or least to stop inducing cringes as often as he does)...because right now he looks like a guy who won't have much success playing the game the way he did as a younger player.  Exactly what Subban 2.0 might be, I'm not sure...Tri suggested that he become more of a defensive defenseman now.  Since he produces even less offense than those players usually do, might as well I guess.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Daniel]

16 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I think Subban is a like a pitcher who used to throw 98 but now only hits 89 on the radar gun.  Some guys are able to adjust and still find ways to be successful (even though it's usually less so of course).  Some guys keep trying to blow people away even though they no longer can...with often ugly results.

Subban is going to have to become a different kind of player to stick around (or least to stop inducing cringes as often as he does)...because right he looks like a guy who won't have much success playing the game the way he did as a younger player.  Exactly what Subban 2.0 might be, I'm not sure...Tri suggested that he become more of a defensive defenseman now.  Since he produces even less offense than those players usually do, might as well I guess.

I'd say more like a pitcher that has the same stuff as he always did, or close to it anyway, but for some reason can't seem to get anyone out anymore.  While I never watched him all that much before he got here, I'm pretty sure he was always a weird looking skater who no one was going to mistake for Erik Karlsson.  It seems like he can shoot the puck just fine and he appears to be in great shape.

And this is what frustrates me to death with Shero; he either doesn't know how to figure out what the problem is or actually isn't interested in finding out and figures he can just fall back on his strategy of making moar deals.  Or that's sure what it looks like from here.  He says the team can't complete a five foot pass. I wish someone pressed him for an answer as to why he thought that was the case and what he planned to about it.

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I'd say more like a pitcher that has the same stuff as he always did, or close to it anyway, but for some reason can't seem to get anyone out anymore.  While I never watched him all that much before he got here, I'm pretty sure he was always a weird looking skater who no one was going to mistake for Erik Karlsson.  It seems like he can shoot the puck just fine and he appears to be in great shape.

And this is what frustrates me to death with Shero; he either doesn't know how to figure out what the problem is or actually isn't interested in finding out and figures he can just fall back on his strategy of making moar deals.  Or that's sure what it looks like from here.  He says the team can't complete a five foot pass. I wish someone pressed him for an answer as to why he thought that was the case and what he planned to about it.

 

Just remember that Subban's decline started in Nashville.  Now has 19 points in his last 67 GP (22 in 73 if you want to throw last year's playoffs in there).  It's not all on Shero and the coaches here.  I'd be more optimistic if PK had turned in a better overall year last season, but as much as it sucks to keep saying, looks like Nashville bailed at just the right time. 

I think Shero is where Lou was towards the end...I think he's a bit shaken up, because nothing he seems to be doing lately seems to be working out...even the moves that made sense, and he's made his share of those...I think he's just at stunned by how this season is going as the fanbase is.  I wonder if that's making him gun-shy about hiring a real new head coach...almost like he feels the need to take a step back so he doesn't make a snap judgment under duress.

 

[NJDfan1711]

I know he's been out for two games, but I didn't pay close attention to who was slotted where in his absence, and there was going to be some shuffling initially, so what do you our forward lines look like now that Hall's gone?

Gusev - Hischier - Palmieri

Coleman - Hughes - Zacha 

Bratt - Zajac - Boqvist

Wood - McLeod - Simmonds

I'd rather see McLeod up instead of Hayden or Rooney, and if he is, you have an extra Center, but I think at that point you can bump Zacha up to the 2nd line, granted out of the Center role, but he's played wing a few times, and I think he deserves more minutes.   

Not sure if Gusev should be on the first line, but I think he matches up skillset-wise the best with Hischier and Palmieri compared to Coleman.

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Just remember that Subban's decline started in Nashville.  Now has 19 points in his last 67 GP (22 in 73 if you want to throw last year's playoffs in there).  It's not all on Shero and the coaches here.  I'd be more optimistic if PK had turned in a better overall year last season, but as much as it sucks to keep saying, looks like Nashville bailed at just the right time. 

I think Shero is where Lou was towards the end...I think he's a bit shaken up, because nothing he seems to be doing lately seems to be working out...even the moves that made sense, and he's made his share of those...I think he's just at stunned by how this season is going as the fanbase is.  I wonder if that's making him gun-shy about hiring a real new head coach...almost like he feels the need to take a step back so he doesn't make a snap judgment under duress.

 

Subban's "decline" in Nashville is really just about point production.  I don't know of anyone who says his overall play during that time was as poor as it's been since he's gotten here.  It's possible you're right about him, but I'd be willing to take a chance that he'll be at least a useful piece if real coaches are brought in.  There's very little downside at this point.  On the other hand, it's not for nothing that Larry Brooks reported something to the effect that Subban was an "ownership driven decision" so maybe he'll be gone before many of us expect.

As far as Shero, I don't think he's suffering from a crisis of confidence.  You have to giant ego to get to the point of being a general manager of any professional sports team.  My sense, and I'll give him credit for it, is that he figured going into the season that there was a chance things would go bad although not this badly and quickly.   When that happened, I think he started to realize that Hynes and his staff were the issue but he hoped that they could make it to the end of the season, but ultimately wanted to save him the embarrassment fire Hynes chants at every home game.  We'll see if he actually tries to figure out why Hynes failed so badly and maybe he won't repeat the same mistakes.   I mean it doesn't take a genius to realize that there better be marked improvement next year or it's his ass.

[nessus]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I know he's been out for two games, but I didn't pay close attention to who was slotted where in his absence, and there was going to be some shuffling initially, so what do you our forward lines look like now that Hall's gone?

Gusev - Hischier - Palmieri

Coleman - Hughes - Zacha 

Bratt - Zajac - Boqvist

Wood - McLeod - Simmonds

I'd rather see McLeod up instead of Hayden or Rooney, and if he is, you have an extra Center, but I think at that point you can bump Zacha up to the 2nd line, granted out of the Center role, but he's played wing a few times, and I think he deserves more minutes.   

Not sure if Gusev should be on the first line, but I think he matches up skillset-wise the best with Hischier and Palmieri compared to Coleman.

I definitely like the idea of moving Gusev back to LW, where I imagine he is more comfortable.

It's tough to decide who would work well with Hughes. I think Boqvist might be a good option there.

[Anhkheg]

Just having proper line combinations is producing better results.

[EdgeControl]

Looks to me like Subban has checked out. But his offense has been a bit exaggerated 5v5.. guy doesn't score 5v5 goal in double digits . Not in his career.. he was a big assist player..on a team without goal scorers that's not happening.. who here thinks his skating and stick handling is bad? It's still pretty good to the eye test.. his 1v1 defense is pretty dam good as well..  never had the reputation as a smart player.. moving him will be difficult 

[Nicomo]

14 minutes ago, EdgeControl said:

Looks to me like Subban has checked out. But his offense has been a bit exaggerated 5v5.. guy doesn't score 5v5 goal in double digits . Not in his career.. he was a big assist player..on a team without goal scorers that's not happening.. who here thinks his skating and stick handling is bad? It's still pretty good to the eye test.. his 1v1 defense is pretty dam good as well..  never had the reputation as a smart player.. moving him will be difficult 

Where’s that big shot he used to have? That’s what I want to know. 

[EdgeControl]

42 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Where’s that big shot he used to have? That’s what I want to know. 

Yeah, his S% is way off and that's a PP issue  that's where he should be doing way more for us..dont have a clue why..  

[HellOnICE]

1 hour ago, EdgeControl said:

Yeah, his S% is way off and that's a PP issue  that's where he should be doing way more for us..dont have a clue why..  

I think it's speed. He's not checked out because of his off-ice activities, maybe he is checked out b/c we stink - which ya know - kind of is what it is. I get it. We have two more years left of this, see if he change the kind of player he is so he can keep a career going. 

[Devil Dan 56]

2 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Where’s that big shot he used to have? That’s what I want to know. 

I think it's insane that the PP isn't set up to use his shot from time to time. It seems he's just there to distribute and never ends up in a good shooting position

[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

17 hours ago, EdgeControl said:

Looks to me like Subban has checked out. But his offense has been a bit exaggerated 5v5.. guy doesn't score 5v5 goal in double digits . Not in his career.. he was a big assist player..on a team without goal scorers that's not happening.. who here thinks his skating and stick handling is bad? It's still pretty good to the eye test.. his 1v1 defense is pretty dam good as well..  never had the reputation as a smart player.. moving him will be difficult 

I think he has lost speed from where he was at earlier in his career which is concerning. 

[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

14 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I think it's insane that the PP isn't set up to use his shot from time to time. It seems he's just there to distribute and never ends up in a good shooting position

agree totally. His shot on the pp was a big reason why we acquired him, or so I thought. 

[Devilsfan118]

https://theathletic.com/1482324/2019/12/23/the-reasons-both-spoken-and-unspoken-that-led-to-john-hynes-downfall/

Pretty blunt and discouraging article, if I'm being honest.  Just seems like there's a dark cloud of losing surrounding most aspects of this team right now.

Interesting snippet:

Another challenge this season was assimilating several new players into the locker room and key roles on the ice.

“I think there was a lot going on in the dressing room that the coaches didn’t really have control over,” a league source said. “You have to depend on your players, and specifically your leadership, to sort of police the dressing room, especially when there’s a lot of new personalities and they rely on your leadership to make sure everyone’s cohesive. I don’t think that’s really happened. I think that’s translated to the play on the ice because, if players don’t trust each other off the ice, they sure as hell aren’t going trust each other on the ice. No matter what the coach was trying to do systems-wise, motivation-wise, it was going to be hard for that to work.

“Anytime there’s an influx of new personalities, everyone needs time to gel. You’re not just going to have immediate friends, just because you play on the same team. You need time for guys getting used to each other, getting used to each other’s quirks, guys getting used to each other’s superstitions, how they act in the room, how they practice.”

[devlman]

I hate that McLeod is out of the lineup again tonight so someone like Wood or Hayden play. Drives me nuts that we aren’t getting our young players valuable minutes now, especially when McLeod came up and looked good and had been playing well of late for Bingo. Not giving up on him as being a valuable NHLer.

[NJDevs4978]

3 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

https://theathletic.com/1482324/2019/12/23/the-reasons-both-spoken-and-unspoken-that-led-to-john-hynes-downfall/

Pretty blunt and discouraging article, if I'm being honest.  Just seems like there's a dark cloud of losing surrounding most aspects of this team right now.

Interesting snippet:

 

 

You and people like you wanted to lose and lose and lose for years to get high picks, well this is the flip side of it.  The culture of losing is fully in place now.  And one of the high picks they lucked into looks like sh!t cause there's nothing around him.

Edited December 23, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

https://theathletic.com/1482324/2019/12/23/the-reasons-both-spoken-and-unspoken-that-led-to-john-hynes-downfall/

Pretty blunt and discouraging article, if I'm being honest.  Just seems like there's a dark cloud of losing surrounding most aspects of this team right now.

Interesting snippet:

 

 

I honestly didn't find this all that informative.  I mean how can you quote Rachel Doerrie without a disclaimer that says she is an enormous John Hynes fangirl to the point that you might confuse her for his agent.

11 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

You and people like you wanted to lose and lose and lose for years to get high picks, well this is the flip side of it.  The culture of losing is fully in place now.

The more I think about it, I want Mike Babcock to be the next coach.  He will absolutely be motivated to prove his critics wrong and he will whip the team into shape while knocking off the crazier more mean spirited stuff he would pull in past. 

[SterioDesign]

2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

You and people like you wanted to lose and lose and lose for years to get high picks, well this is the flip side of it.  The culture of losing is fully in place now.  And one of the high picks they lucked into looks like sh!t cause there's nothing around him.

Well nobody "wanted" to lose cause it was fun. It was a "necessity" to infuse top young talent cause we sure didn't have a plan for the future, we had no prospects at all, didnt have assets to trade for young talent. You can't sign young talent in the summer either. Drafting was the only way and we were SO bad and SO old that it became the only way to add young talent to this ridiculous roster. We had 7 players under 30 years old and 7 over 35. I mean... how were we supposed to get that talent otherwize? we got 2 first overall and its not even enough. Imagine if we didnt suck that bad

Cammalleri (33) - Henrique (25) - Jagr (43)

Ryder (35) - Zajac (29) - Brunner (29)

Elias (39) - Gomez (34) - Zubrus (37)

Tootoo (32) - Josefon (24) - Bernier (30)

Ryder (35) - Gionta (32) - Havlat (34) - Ruutu (32)

 

Greene (33) - Larsson (23)

Zidlicky (38) - Merrill (23)

Severson (21) - Salvador (39)

Gelinas (24) - Harrold (32)

 

Schneider (29)

Kinkaid (26)

Edited December 24, 2019 by SterioDesign

[Devilsfan118]

2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

You and people like you wanted to lose and lose and lose for years to get high picks, well this is the flip side of it.  The culture of losing is fully in place now.  And one of the high picks they lucked into looks like sh!t cause there's nothing around him.

I made the mistake of assuming Shero would do a good job surrounding the young talent with solid veterans and a good coaching staff while enduring the tank.

Clearly did not happen, shame on me.

[aclc79]

I really do not know where we go from here.  It's so sad when the Rags are better than we are!