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Devils 2019-20 Lineup/Notes Thread


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33 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Nico has 10 points in his last 13 GP after a slow start.  I know over-the-top negativity about everything is your schtick now, but Nico hasn't "stagnated" as much as you'd like to believe. 

And oh by the way, Nolan Patrick finished up last season with a whopping one goal in his last 21 GP last season (with 7 assists).  Nico finished slow too (1 G in his last 22 GP last season, with 10 assists), but if you're to be this annoyingly one-note, at least don't present falsehoods as truths.  Nolan was NOT starting to produce at a better rate, and you probably knew that, but since it didn't fit with your narrative, you chose to make up nonsense. 

EDIT:  OK, I'll be fair here...if you log each player's last 22 GP last season, they produced the same number of points (11 each...2 G  9 A for Patrick, 1 G  10 A for Nico).

If it's their last 34 GP, they each put up 20 points (8 G  12 A for Patrick, 7 G  13 A for Nico).

Go back any further than that, and Nico wins that battle.

Still supports my point though...Patrick may have been equaling Nico for a while, but he was never really out-producing him. 

 

The point is that Nolan Patrick has had terrible injury luck and has been a third/second line center because Philly has a much more talented forwards ahead of him, yet there isn't the gulf in production between the two of them that a lot of people think.  This is a first overall pick who Ray just signed to a seven year extension and he has yet to outproduce a 23-24 year old Travis Zajac.  

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10 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The point is that Nolan Patrick has had terrible injury luck and has been a third/second line center because Philly has a much more talented forwards ahead of him, yet there isn't the gulf in production between the two of them that a lot of people think.  This is a first overall pick who Ray just signed to a seven year extension and he has yet to outproduce a 23-24 year old Travis Zajac.  

No, your point was that Nolan was starting to out-produce Nico.  I proved that to be wrong.

Talk to me when Nico is 23 or 24.  He's a little over a month removed from turning 21...he was not projected to be generational or to put up eye-popping numbers immediately.  He was off to a fine start last season (54 games into his season, he was on a 64 points/82 GP pace), but he slowed up AND also was injured.  We at least saw signs of improved production for a nice chunk of last season...I'm not ready to say he's plateaued just yet. 

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20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

No, your point was that Nolan was starting to out-produce Nico.  I proved that to be wrong.

Talk to me when Nico is 23 or 24.  He's a little over a month removed from turning 21...he was not projected to be generational or to put up eye-popping numbers immediately.  He was off to a fine start last season (54 games into his season, he was on a 64 points/82 GP pace), but he slowed up AND also was injured.  We at least saw signs of improved production for a nice chunk of last season...I'm not ready to say he's plateaued just yet. 

He should be getting better, noticeably better.  If we ever get new coaches, perhaps that'll happen. 

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24 minutes ago, Daniel said:

He should be getting better, noticeably better.  If we ever get new coaches, perhaps that'll happen. 

Yeah he hasn’t progressed. Too many nights where he’s a non-factor. Entirely unacceptable. Meanwhile every time I turn around, someone drafted below him is lighting it up. 

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Would just like to point out I got flamed to absolute hell last year for saying I wonder if it’s time to wonder whether Pettersson or Heiskanen would’ve been better than Nico. 

ooooops haha

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15 minutes ago, Aitchmack said:

Has any player shown an noticeable improvement under Hynes? Outside of one great season from Hall I'm struggling to think of anyone.

Coleman maybe? Nico has improved on face offs (probably his biggest weakness his rookie season). 

Other than that, yeah, not really...

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3 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Yeah he hasn’t progressed. Too many nights where he’s a non-factor. Entirely unacceptable. Meanwhile every time I turn around, someone drafted below him is lighting it up. 

Yeah, same imo. Not sure it's totally on the coach some of these guys just haven't stepped up their games, can it still happen sure but at some point down the road they may not live up to expectations. I'm not totally sold on either perspective at this point but am concerned for sure. Just all kinda sucks at this point.

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I'm not going to do a deep dive here (and I'm not asking anyone else to) but it just blows my mind that we're still this bad after so many years of being absolute trash. Coaching is the primary problem, probably, but looking at this roster..

Outside of the two 1OA's there really isn't a ton of talent throughout this roster. Not having a blue chip prospect on D is more or less inexcusable in my opinion after tanking for the better part of a decade. Maybe Smith finally sticks next year, but I'm not going to count him as a blue-chip just yet.

It's been said a thousand times on this forum that nothing is guaranteed with tanking, but you look at a team like Colorado right now.. that's an exciting team with a ton of talent on the roster that still has a ton of growing to do. 

My faith in Shero is... Let's say, I'm starting to develop some doubts.

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10 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I'm not going to do a deep dive here (and I'm not asking anyone else to) but it just blows my mind that we're still this bad after so many years of being absolute trash. Coaching is the primary problem, probably, but looking at this roster..

Outside of the two 1OA's there really isn't a ton of talent throughout this roster. Not having a blue chip prospect on D is more or less inexcusable in my opinion after tanking for the better part of a decade. Maybe Smith finally sticks next year, but I'm not going to count him as a blue-chip just yet.

It's been said a thousand times on this forum that nothing is guaranteed with tanking, but you look at a team like Colorado right now.. that's an exciting team with a ton of talent on the roster that still has a ton of growing to do. 

My faith in Shero is... Let's say, I'm starting to develop some doubts.

I don't disagree and my faith is starting to waiver as well, but I don't think it's fair to evaluate this team unless and until a new coach is brought in to manage them.  It's like when you go to the doctor and you're given some news (good or bad), if it's important, which I think we can all agree this team is, you usually go and get a second opinion just to confirm the results.  

Or, and I've used this sort of analogy before, but it's also like if you had a super fast car and were competing in a race - if you constantly are in the back of the pack but the car seems like it should be capable of coming in 1st, or at least in the top 10, then maybe you go out and get another person to drive the car and see if it was just the driver who didn't know what he was doing. You don't strip the car right away and send it to the junk yard before at least trying that.  It's a bit of a childish example, but that's literally how simple it is at the moment.  A child could make this decision right now.  Why can't Shero?  I'm really close to wanting him fired too.  He's looking more and more inept by the day.

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31 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I'm not going to do a deep dive here (and I'm not asking anyone else to) but it just blows my mind that we're still this bad after so many years of being absolute trash. Coaching is the primary problem, probably, but looking at this roster..

Outside of the two 1OA's there really isn't a ton of talent throughout this roster. Not having a blue chip prospect on D is more or less inexcusable in my opinion after tanking for the better part of a decade. Maybe Smith finally sticks next year, but I'm not going to count him as a blue-chip just yet.

It's been said a thousand times on this forum that nothing is guaranteed with tanking, but you look at a team like Colorado right now.. that's an exciting team with a ton of talent on the roster that still has a ton of growing to do. 

My faith in Shero is... Let's say, I'm starting to develop some doubts.

This roster is a hell of a lot more talented than the one that had Gomez 2.0 on the top line, or rolled Jagr all over the place, or Ryder

This is a massive attitude and coaching problem. Ax the bald headed idiot behind the bench and his band of AHL-at-best morons and then assess the roster. Hynes is not the coach to lead this team out of the abyss, he doesn’t know how to use actual talent. Hell he can’t even get young guys to take A step let alone the next step.

Once we get a new coach, if we ever do, I’ll panic over the roster. But that is the first change that needed to happen weeks ago.

My faith in Shero lies solely on Hynes being fired, as he has the pieces to have a winner and a playoff team now, but the fact he is accepting these results probably with that smug smile on his face to boot, is inexcusable 

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On 12/3/2019 at 7:42 AM, Devilsfan118 said:

I'm not going to do a deep dive here (and I'm not asking anyone else to) but it just blows my mind that we're still this bad after so many years of being absolute trash. Coaching is the primary problem, probably, but looking at this roster..

Outside of the two 1OA's there really isn't a ton of talent throughout this roster. Not having a blue chip prospect on D is more or less inexcusable in my opinion after tanking for the better part of a decade. Maybe Smith finally sticks next year, but I'm not going to count him as a blue-chip just yet.

It's been said a thousand times on this forum that nothing is guaranteed with tanking, but you look at a team like Colorado right now.. that's an exciting team with a ton of talent on the roster that still has a ton of growing to do. 

My faith in Shero is... Let's say, I'm starting to develop some doubts.

I know this was asked before Hynes was fired, but you have to go through the league and see where players come from to realize just how little the Devils are going to end up having from the final 4 drafts that Conte was presiding over, and these are drafts where I mostly think he did okay - part of it was that he was working without picks almost every year.  I did this breakdown on HF a month ago so I still have everything handy, here's the list of players/assets the Devils have as a result of drafting and trades from the various draft years:

2002:  Greene*

2004:  Zajac

2008:  Vatanen (via Henrique+3rd+UFA)

2009:  Zetterlund (via Eric Gelinas)

2010:  Schmid (via Scott Wedgewood)

2011:  Hall (via Larsson), Coleman

2012:  Severson

2013:  Wood, Schneider

2014:  Hayden

2015:  Zacha, Blackwood, Palmieri (via 2nd+3rd round pick), Seney

2016: [Beau Bennett]

* - would've been draft-eligible that year

[] - player was acquired with draft pick acquired by previous regime, is no longer with organization

In a year the Devils missed the playoffs (2013), they have a 3rd/4th line forward and awful goalie to show for it now.  What do you think good teams now have from the 2013 draft - a draft, which by the way, was not all that special - but has still produced several solid NHLers?  2014 was also not special, but it was also a year the Devils missed the playoffs - they've got John Hayden to show for it 5 years later.  Knowing what we know now, a GM would have to have stolen a good goalie or signed one UFA to make this into a good team, and that's with the excellent trades for Hall and Palmieri.

Not counting Ty Smith as a blue-chip prospect is just changing the definitions of words.  Name 5 D currently playing outside the NHL who are property of an NHL team who you'd rather have.  You might be able to do this - naming 10 is likely not possible.  He is a blue-chip prospect.  He would be the best D prospect in the system of more than half the teams around the league.  That doesn't mean he's going to be an NHL star or NHL regular - plenty of blue-chip prospects have failed to become NHLers.  'Waiting to see more' just means waiting until he isn't a prospect anymore.

This team should be better than it is.  The coaching staff has failed to get the best out of anyone in the early stages of this season.  There's been some trades that haven't worked out - Bennett, Mueller, probably Gusev, possibly Subban, and Johansson was largely a wash.  McLeod probably won't play in the NHL much or well.  Still, there is a lot of hope for the future, and while the NHL standings don't reflect it enough, there's been some massive upgrades.

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