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Devils 2019-20 Lineup/Notes Thread

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3 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

this actually makes it look worse - like harris just knows this isn't good so let me pick what's around.

I don't know about that - Marty holds a lot of cache with ownership, as he should given his accomplishments. He saw first-hand how Lou ran things, and then learned after he retired, why not use his expertise? 

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That Brodeur rumor lost any ounce of credibility it had when it was tweeted by Incarcerated Bob. 

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Marty's certainly taken a more active role since the firing.  I hope it's more of a tacit putting a franchise legend out there to do media tours for PR purposes when you look like a gong show but it does kind of look like Marty was one of the people in the owners' ear second-guessing Shero and 'his people' to begin with.

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34 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Marty's certainly taken a more active role since the firing.  I hope it's more of a tacit putting a franchise legend out there to do media tours for PR purposes when you look like a gong show but it does kind of look like Marty was one of the people in the owners' ear second-guessing Shero and 'his people' to begin with.

I don't doubt Marty may have said a thing or two ownership, but if Ray left himself open via his 'closed communication' sphere as has been reported by several, when it was clear ownership wanted more collaboration - then Ray wasn't a fit anymore.

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So in other news, Friedman mentioned on the latest podcast that Greene fully intends on playing next year, and that he "hasn't thought" about whether he wants to be traded to a contender this year.

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16 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

So in other news, Friedman mentioned on the latest podcast that Greene fully intends on playing next year, and that he "hasn't thought" about whether he wants to be traded to a contender this year.

Time. To. Move. On. 

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https://www.nj.com/devils/2020/01/devils-odds-and-ends-does-pavel-zacha-prefer-center-or-left-wing-cory-schneider-on-new-prospects.html

What Pavel said:

“Still preference for me would be center, just because I’m played my whole life and I kind of know where to be a little bit. It just depends," Zacha told NJ Advance Media. "You get a little more chance to play, a little more ice time with the players you play with. At this point this year I’ve played half and half almost. But if I could choose, center is where I feel most comfortable.

What it looks like to me:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah  blah blah blah ALMOST blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah"

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Jeez. He just seems like a generally wishy washy person. Its a shame seeing someone who has talent but just can't put any of it together. 

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Can you imagine where this team would be if we chose any of these guys?

 

image.thumb.png.cc12f914bae5bcb60934c24b3ee85a05.png

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1 hour ago, Devilsfan118 said:

So in other news, Friedman mentioned on the latest podcast that Greene fully intends on playing next year, and that he "hasn't thought" about whether he wants to be traded to a contender this year.

Hopefully he is playing elsewhere if he does play next year.

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12 hours ago, sundstrom said:

this actually makes it look worse - like harris just knows this isn't good so let me pick what's around.

At least Marty mentions being patient. I was worried that Shero was let go because he wanted to continue to build through the draft but the owners wanted to contend now but it really seems like Shero was let go because of the analytics thing and not wanting to share his responsibilities.

Edited by Jerzey

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There's broken records, and then there's this fvcking place. Holy sh!t. 

The Bruins are one of the best drafting teams in the entire sport and they had 3 consecutive chances at drafting Barzal, Connor or Chabot and they took Zboril and Shenshyn. Sometimes it just doesn't fvcking work out. 

We took McLeod over McAvoy and Chychrun. We took Hischier over Heiskanen and Petterson. 

Pavel Zacha, (who is currently 5th on the team in points for a forward (despite playing two full minutes less per game than Travis Zajac and never sniffing the powerplay)  was ASKED "since you play both wing and center, what do you prefer" and you guys are out here roasting him like he decided to say YOLO and tweet it out himself. 20% of his ATOI/G is on the powerplay, and of people who have played more than 30 games, only 4 forwards on the team have a higher dZS%. 

He is not Barzal. He is not Provorov. He is clearly not Rantanen. It was clearly a whiff. But the level of hatred he gets here is absolutely mind fvcking boggling. 

Edited by MB3
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18 minutes ago, MB3 said:

There's broken records, and then there's this fvcking place. Holy sh!t. 

The Bruins are one of the best drafting teams in the entire sport and they had 3 consecutive chances at drafting Barzal, Connor or Chabot and they took Zboril, DeBrusk and Shenshyn. Sometimes it just doesn't fvcking work out. 

We took McLeod over McAvoy and Chychrun. We took Hischier over Heiskanen and Petterson. 

Pavel Zacha, (who is currently 5th on the team in points for a forward (despite playing two full minutes less per game than Travis Zajac and never sniffing the powerplay)  was ASKED "since you play both wing and center, what do you prefer" and you guys are out here roasting him like he decided to say YOLO and tweet it out himself. 20% of his ATOI/G is on the powerplay, and of people who have played more than 30 games, only 4 forwards on the team have a higher dZS%. 

He is not Barzal. He is not Provorov. He is clearly not Rantanen. It was clearly a whiff. But the level of hatred he gets here is absolutely mind fvcking boggling. 

Honestly, I'm not really sure how good any of those players would have been here on the Devils anyway. Would Barzal or Rantanen have been what they are if they were playing with Vernon Fiddler or Joe Blandisi or whoever their first year?  I don’t think it’s a given.

Regardless... Even though Zacha is not going to be putting up numbers like those guys, he still brings something to the lineup. 

Edited by Devil Dan 56

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1 hour ago, MB3 said:

There's broken records, and then there's this fvcking place. Holy sh!t. 

The Bruins are one of the best drafting teams in the entire sport and they had 3 consecutive chances at drafting Barzal, Connor or Chabot and they took Zboril and Shenshyn. Sometimes it just doesn't fvcking work out. 

We took McLeod over McAvoy and Chychrun. We took Hischier over Heiskanen and Petterson. 

Pavel Zacha, (who is currently 5th on the team in points for a forward (despite playing two full minutes less per game than Travis Zajac and never sniffing the powerplay)  was ASKED "since you play both wing and center, what do you prefer" and you guys are out here roasting him like he decided to say YOLO and tweet it out himself. 20% of his ATOI/G is on the powerplay, and of people who have played more than 30 games, only 4 forwards on the team have a higher dZS%. 

He is not Barzal. He is not Provorov. He is clearly not Rantanen. It was clearly a whiff. But the level of hatred he gets here is absolutely mind fvcking boggling. 

My post was more of a joke than anything else.  I didn't post a single "roasting" word, really. 

You're looking at a guy who bought his McMullen Night GW this past offseason, as a leap of faith.  Definitely wasn't done out of hatred.

But yes, I'm just tired of waiting for him to show real signs of progress.  Yeah, he's one of the guys I'm frustrated with.  And yeah, I'm hoping that the Devils find a way to package him with something else this offseason, because there's some players I'd just like to see moved out of here.  I agree in that he was drafted where he was drafted and I'm past pointing out all of the players the Devils could've had instead.  But given that he's not making THAT much and will have one year left on his deal and is still relatively youth, I won't be surprised if he gets a "one last time" look to start next year.  But I'm ready to move on.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

Can you imagine where this team would be if we chose any of these guys?

 

image.thumb.png.cc12f914bae5bcb60934c24b3ee85a05.png

Also thank fvcking god Boston picked those 3 guys and not the next 3 

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34 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

My post was more of a joke than anything else.  I didn't post a single "roasting" word, really. 

You're looking at a guy who bought his McMullen Night GW this past offseason, as a leap of faith.  Definitely wasn't done out of hatred.

But yes, I'm just tired of waiting for him to show real signs of progress.  Yeah, he's one of the guys I'm frustrated with.  And yeah, I'm hoping that the Devils find a way to package him with something else this offseason, because there's some players I'd just like to see moved out of here.  I agree in that he was drafted where he was drafted and I'm past pointing out all of the players the Devils could've had instead.  But given that he's not making THAT much and will have one year left on his deal and is still relatively, I won't be surprised if he gets a "one last time" look to start next year.  But I'm ready to move on.  

I am with you on this.  The guy has been a disappointment no matter how you slice it.  Take away his draft position for a guy who seemingly has a ton of tools to work with he seemingly doesn't or can't put it together.  I am sick of the 15 points in 20-25 games runs followed by 2 points in 30 game spells.

Maybe a change of scenery will work better for him.  I don't know.  I just don't want to keep sitting and hoping on him like we did with JJ who got at least 2 years more than he should have.

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2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Can you imagine where this team would be if we chose any of these guys?

 

image.thumb.png.cc12f914bae5bcb60934c24b3ee85a05.png

We'd still suck, just one guy less than we do now. 

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am with you on this.  The guy has been a disappointment no matter how you slice it.  Take away his draft position for a guy who seemingly has a ton of tools to work with he seemingly doesn't or can't put it together.  I am sick of the 15 points in 20-25 games runs followed by 2 points in 30 game spells.

Maybe a change of scenery will work better for him.  I don't know.  I just don't want to keep sitting and hoping on him like we did with JJ who got at least 2 years more than he should have.

Jesus Christ. 

Jacob Josefson finished his NHL career with 64 points in 315 games. Pavel Zacha has 30 more points in 70 fewer games. Pavel Zacha is a well above average penalty killer. He provides value to the team, even though it doesn't show up on the stat sheet. 

He's not even close to Rantanen, but he's also not Jacob fvcking Josefson. 

And again, since you guys will all spit at the sound of his name until DM does the merciful thing and shuts down the website, I'll defend him just as adamantly. He's on pace for 111 points through his age-22 season. Do you know who else on the current New Jersey Devils had 111 career points by their age-22 season?

1. Nico Hischier

that's the list. 

Edited by MB3
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45 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Jesus Christ. 

Jacob Josefson finished his NHL career with 64 points in 315 games. Pavel Zacha has 30 more points in 70 fewer games. Pavel Zacha is a well above average penalty killer. He provides value to the team, even though it doesn't show up on the stat sheet. 

He's not even close to Rantanen, but he's also not Jacob fvcking Josefson. 

And again, since you guys will all spit at the sound of his name until DM does the merciful thing and shuts down the website, I'll defend him just as adamantly. He's on pace for 111 points through his age-22 season. Do you know who else on the current New Jersey Devils had 111 career points by their age-22 season?

1. Nico Hischier

that's the list. 

Assuming he stays healthy and doesn't get scratched, he'll also have played 279 games by the end of this season (technically his 4th full).  Just don't think possibly having 111 career points at age 22 due to having played well over three seasons' worth of games is really some major deal.  How many Devils forwards in their history have had a similarly heavy workload so early on?  

Elias had 166 GP and 92 points by the end of his age 22 season...but because this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison (he didn't play nearly as many games as Zacha had to that point in his career), he doesn't wind up on your "list".  

BTW Scott Gomez, just before his 23rd birthday, had put up 146 points in 192 GP.  Why is he not even mentioned along with Nico on your "list"?  Devils were obviously a much better TEAM when those two were playing, but the 111 points thing the way you're presenting it just doesn't work.  

It's fine if you're looking for ways to puff up Zacha; I just don't think "Points Before Age 22 On This Flawed List" is the best way to go about it.  

 

EDIT:  to be fair, you did say CURRENT Devils, so that's fully on me that I missed that.  But I still think you're making too big of a deal out of a stat mostly built up from a rather large sample of games played for a player Zacha's age.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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And with that we have even more confirmation of just how piss poor this team is and has been rather than how valuable Zacha is. Praying for a trade. I'm sure he's a great kid with a fine piece of ass girlfriend. Would love seeing him in an opponents sweater because there's nothing whatsoever to fear.

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40 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Jesus Christ. 

Jacob Josefson finished his NHL career with 64 points in 315 games. Pavel Zacha has 30 more points in 70 fewer games. Pavel Zacha is a well above average penalty killer. He provides value to the team, even though it doesn't show up on the stat sheet. 

He's not even close to Rantanen, but he's also not Jacob fvcking Josefson. 

And again, since you guys will all spit at the sound of his name until DM does the merciful thing and shuts down the website, I'll defend him just as adamantly. He's on pace for 111 points through his age-22 season. Do you know who else on the current New Jersey Devils had 111 career points by their age-22 season?

1. Nico Hischier

that's the list. 

Zacha, Hischier and eventually Hughes are also the only three current Devils who played a full season in or before their 19-20 year.  So it's kind of like saying you finished in the 90th percentile of your summer school class.

That said, Zacha is a perfectly capable NHL forward and might get better.  He could find a spot to play on every team in the league.  As I've said before, he's not Curtis Lazar.  So there's no reason to give him away.

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51 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Jesus Christ. 

Jacob Josefson finished his NHL career with 64 points in 315 games. Pavel Zacha has 30 more points in 70 fewer games. Pavel Zacha is a well above average penalty killer. He provides value to the team, even though it doesn't show up on the stat sheet. 

He's not even close to Rantanen, but he's also not Jacob fvcking Josefson. 

And again, since you guys will all spit at the sound of his name until DM does the merciful thing and shuts down the website, I'll defend him just as adamantly. He's on pace for 111 points through his age-22 season. Do you know who else on the current New Jersey Devils had 111 career points by their age-22 season?

1. Nico Hischier

that's the list. 

yeah but to be fair to Blackwood... he's a goalie. So it's WAY harder to get points. 

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Just like I am sick of people posting the 14-15 lineup to excuse Shero, I am sick of people using Zacha's age to prop him up.  He is closing in on 250 NHL games.  I am also tired of hearing how great he is in advanced stats while he is a black hole on every line he is apart of.

He is definitely a bottom 6 forward on most NHL teams, I'd just prefer it be a team not named the Devils at this point.

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11 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Zacha, Hischier and eventually Hughes are also the only three current Devils who played a full season in or before their 19-20 year.  So it's kind of like saying you finished in the 90th percentile of your summer school class.

That said, Zacha is a perfectly capable NHL forward and might get better.  He could find a spot to play on every team in the league.  As I've said before, he's not Curtis Lazar.  So there's no reason to give him away.

Implying that playing in the NHL as an 18/19 year old is similar to “going to summer school” is bordering on SD-levels of terrible metaphors. 

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1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

Just like I am sick of people posting the 14-15 lineup to excuse Shero, I am sick of people using Zacha's age to prop him up.  He is closing in on 250 NHL games.  I am also tired of hearing how great he is in advanced stats while he is a black hole on every line he is apart of.

He is definitely a bottom 6 forward on most NHL teams, I'd just prefer it be a team not named the Devils at this point.

Zacha’s age *does* prop him up. He could go pointless for another three full fvcking seasons and he’ll still have accomplished more than forum-pet Blake Coleman did by his age 25 season. 

Some players take time to develop. This is a bottom feeder franchise right now; why not let him develop? You’d rather trade him and see more games for Rooney and Hayden and whoever the living fvck Ben street is? 

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