Fire Hynes

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm still amazed that there doesn't seem to be that "final straw" moment, in a season that's had multiple.  I just saw what qualified as two of them in the last three days alone. 

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that all of the assistants have no prior NHL coaching experience and are just as culpable as Hynes.  Shero seems very particular in what he wants in his coaches (hence him literally never having fired one that he picked) and doesn't have a Lemaire or Larry Robinson to fall back on like Lou did, especially now that Bylsma is under contract with the Red Wings.  It is glaring weakness in the way he operates. 

[Devilsfan118]

I mean at a certain point ownership has to step in here and force Shero's hand if he's still completely unwilling to fire his guy.

We're doing damage to the brand, here.  The Devils are a national laughingstock. 

[NJDfan1711]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

The fact that you guys think you can pinpoint the exact moment of something that may not even happen is more entertaining than our on-ice product this year. 

I don't understand your fascination with the fact that people think something should have happened by now, are surprised that it hasn't, and are commenting on that. 

What do you do when the weatherman says there's a 90% chance of rain tomorrow, and by 6 o'clock it's cloudy but no precipitation yet, and the day's all but over...just ignore it because you can't talk about it since it wasn't able to be predicted exactly to the minute?  

[NJDfan1711]

2 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I mean at a certain point ownership has to step in here and force Shero's hand if he's still completely unwilling to fire his guy.

We're doing damage to the brand, here.  The Devils are a national laughingstock. 

Yeah, this is how I am starting to feel too - I was almost embarrassed to be a Devils fan on Saturday for the first time in my life. Yesterday was actually more comical than embarrassment.  We're far removed from being a perennial powerhouse, and as Boomer said this morning on WFAN in regards to the Knicks, young people in their teens and 20s have no idea what they were like in the 90s when they were competitive and playing good basketball, and it's the same with our team.  Gone are the 90s and early 2000s when we had a solid core and were known for being a revered team, and an organization that was well-run, and well-respected.  For the past decade we have been team that's been below average, and at present time, it's trending in the direction of absolute joke and catastrophe.  I, for one, can't stand it much longer.  It doesn't make me proud.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

18 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Yeah, this is how I am starting to feel too - I was almost embarrassed to be a Devils fan on Saturday for the first time in my life. Yesterday was actually more comical than embarrassment.  We're far removed from being a perennial powerhouse, and as Boomer said this morning on WFAN in regards to the Knicks, young people in their teens and 20s have no idea what they were like in the 90s when they were competitive and playing good basketball, and it's the same with our team.  Gone are the 90s and early 2000s when we had a solid core and were known for being a revered team, and an organization that was well-run, and well-respected.  For the past decade we have been team that's been below average, and at present time, it's trending in the direction of absolute joke and catastrophe.  I, for one, can't stand it much longer.  It doesn't make me proud.

They did reach a SCF in 2012, after finishing 2011 on an incredible flourish.  As we all know, years of bad drafting and trying to keep the ship afloat finally caught up with them (and they were going to hit a valley eventually...the team missed the playoffs in all of three seasons from 1987-88 through 2011-12).  I don't count the beginning years of this valley as part of any "laughingstock".

That being said, it's starting to trend in the laughingstock direction as of this season.  You had Lou's final rough years, which often happen under any GM's tenure (especially an insanely long one)...you then have the next GM, who's tasked with either cleaning up the mess, or having to restock a bare or near-bare cupboard...in Ray's case, he had to do both.  So he had to be given some buffer years to get going on both of those fronts.

But yeah, you can't be trying to take clear steps forward in assembling the team (Ray clearly did that this offseason), and continue to be such a mess on the ice.  Seasons like this are the ones that propel you into the beginnings of laughingstock territory.  I say "beginnings" because it remains to be seen if the Devils are stuck here for multiple seasons.  There were excuses when it came to bad years before.  That time is coming to an end. 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

They did reach a SCF in 2012, after finishing 2011 on an incredible flourish.  As we all know, years of bad drafting and trying to keep the ship afloat finally caught up with them (and they were going to hit a valley eventually...the team missed the playoffs in all of three seasons from 1987-88 through 2011-12).  I don't count the beginning years of this valley as part of any "laughingstock".

That being said, it's starting to trend in the laughingstock direction as of this season.  You had Lou's final rough years, which often happen under any GM's tenure (especially an insanely long one)...you then have the next GM, who's tasked with either cleaning up the mess, or having to restock a bare or near-bare cupboard...in Ray's case, he had to do both.  So he had to be given some buffer years to get going on both of those fronts.

But yeah, you can't be trying to take clear steps forward in assembling the team, and continue to be such a mess on the ice.  Seasons like this are the ones that propel you into the beginnings of laughingstock territory.  I say "beginnings" because it remains to be seen if the Devils are stuck here for multiple seasons.  There were excuses when it came to bad years before.  That time is coming to an end. 

 

I don't care what kind of mess you were given.  If you have two number 1 overall picks, 28 draft picks in three years, Peter Chiarelli giving you Taylor Hall and a non-Daniel Snyder owner that has allowed you to accrue cap space instead of spending it every year, perpetual bottom three finishes can't be acceptable anymore. 

And at this point, I don't think there can be a dispute that Shero has an enormous weakness in not being able to assemble a quality coaching staff, which is a very big problem.

[DJ Eco]

Every day that Hynes is still head coach of the Devils is an insult to the fanbase and its intelligence of what it can plainly see and hear with its eyes and ears. The players have stopped playing for him, stopped caring, and it's entering well-worn territory of, I'm sure, doing more damage to our budding prospects and long-term players than the good that stability can do. Stability in absolute failure is not good.

[DJ Eco]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I don't care what kind of mess you were given.  If you have two number 1 overall picks, 28 draft picks in three years, Peter Chiarelli giving you Taylor Hall and a non-Daniel Snyder owner that has allowed you to accrue cap space instead of spending it every year, perpetual bottom three finishes can't be acceptable anymore. 

And at this point, I don't think there can be a dispute that Shero has an enormous weakness in not being able to assemble a quality coaching staff, which is a very big problem.

Yep, that's all it comes down to. Shero can do and has done dozens of good things; great trades, fairly good drafting up to this point; but none of it means squat if he can't cut our losses when a bad coach is clearly way in over his head. We have a talented roster, we have a roster that's good enough to go on a run and pull a 2019 St. Louis, but every day Hynes is still in the position is a day that inevitable jumpstart happens later and later at the point of no return; inevitable, because there's NO WAY Hynes survives this! Let's be real...

It's another wasted season by now, this is all Hynes' sinking ship, and Shero could wash his hands of it right now, but he's chosen not to, so now it's a reflection on him too, when it didn't have to be...

Edited December 3, 2019 by DJ Eco

[Aitchmack]

I know I'm making a huge assumption but the Devils have had three games in four days.  There's no time to get a new coach some practices with the team. However, after tonights game there's two days before the Chicago game. So, sack Hynes tonight. New/interim coach gets two days of practice with the team.  That's what I hope anyway.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I don't care what kind of mess you were given.  If you have two number 1 overall picks, 28 draft picks in three years, Peter Chiarelli giving you Taylor Hall and a non-Daniel Snyder owner that has allowed you to accrue cap space instead of spending it every year, perpetual bottom three finishes can't be acceptable anymore. 

And at this point, I don't think there can be a dispute that Shero has an enormous weakness in not being able to assemble a quality coaching staff, which is a very big problem.

They didn't finish in the bottom 3 in 2017-18.  They were bottom 3 last season and in 2016-17.  20th in 2015-16.  That's not "perpetual bottom three finishes." 

I agree in that you can't give Shero a pass for THIS season being a disaster to date...especially since he stuck with Hynes this long.  The next couple of years are going to be the biggies for him...like I said, he'll be on his second coach, and it will be time for his drafts to start paying off.  If his picks aren't contributing and it looks like the next coaching staff is another dud...you can argue that it's time for a new GM. 

[DJ Eco]

3 hours ago, jagknife said:

When have they ever had a mandatory morning skate on the second half of back to backs? I’d put money down saying it’s under 5% of the time.

That being said, if Hynes is allowed to coach this team tonight, Ray Shero is then admitting he too is part of the problem. 

I've been really trying to give Shero the benefit of the doubt for as long as I can, but it's really starting to enter that territory.

[Daniel]

5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

They didn't finish in the bottom 3 in 2017-18.  They were bottom 3 last season and in 2016-17.  20th in 2015-16.  That's not "perpetual bottom three finishes." 

I agree in that you can't give Shero a pass for THIS season being a disaster to date...especially since he stuck with Hynes this long.  The next couple of years are going to be the biggies for him...like I said, he'll be on his second coach, and it will be time for his drafts to start paying off.  If his picks aren't contributing and it looks like the next coaching staff is another dud...you can argue that it's time for a new GM. 

This year will be a bottom three season. 

[titans04]

[SterioDesign]

36 minutes ago, Daniel said:

This year will be a bottom three season. 

I mean... are you willing to put money where your mouth is ? Like do you actually legit believe that sh!t or you're just trying to make this place as miserable as you are?

Cause it's fvcking annoying to hear you spout that sh!t 70 times a day like it's some sort of truth. That Shero is tanking on purpose... not trying to build a winner... etc etc Cmon put your money when your mouth is and put the money towards the board if you lose

Remember when you said Shero wouldn't do anything this summer cause he didn't trade for Trouba? that he was not trying to build a winning team etc etc just to see him acquire Subban and Gusev moments later.

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by SterioDesign

[Daniel]

23 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I mean... are you willing to put money where your mouth is ? Like do you actually legit believe that sh!t or you're just trying to make this place as miserable as you are?

Cause it's fvcking annoying to hear you spout that sh!t 70 times a day like it's some sort of truth. That Shero is tanking on purpose... not trying to build a winner... etc etc Cmon put your money when your mouth is and put the money towards the board if you lose

Remember when you said Shero wouldn't do anything this summer cause he didn't trade for Trouba? that he was not trying to build a winning team etc etc just to see him acquire Subban and Gusev moments later.

 

I don’t gamble except for my fantasy football team, so sweet burn there.  And I notice that spreadsheet types that say they know more than everyone are not millionaires like they should be and are very very quiet all the sudden.  And Jacob Trouba is better than anyone on the Devils as currently constituted.  You can’t even debate that he’s better than any of our defenseman.

Otherwise keep defending the indefensible.  

 

[NJDfan1711]

1 hour ago, Aitchmack said:

I know I'm making a huge assumption but the Devils have had three games in four days.  There's no time to get a new coach some practices with the team. However, after tonights game there's two days before the Chicago game. So, sack Hynes tonight. New/interim coach gets two days of practice with the team.  That's what I hope anyway.

I was thinking the same thing - not that tonight's outcome should dictate anything, but assuming we lose, no matter how badly, I could possibly see Hynes getting the boot tomorrow for the reason(s) you mentioned. 

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I was thinking the same thing - not that tonight's outcome should dictate anything, but assuming we lose, no matter how badly, I could possibly see Hynes getting the boot tomorrow for the reason(s) you mentioned. 

What time will it be? If its after 8:43 AM I am going to be pissed. 

[mikepeluso8]

this organization has become a train wreck.

[SterioDesign]

13 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I don’t gamble except for my fantasy football team, so sweet burn there.  And I notice that spreadsheet types that say they know more than everyone are not millionaires like they should be and are very very quiet all the sudden.  And Jacob Trouba is better than anyone on the Devils as currently constituted.  You can’t even debate that he’s better than any of our defenseman.

Otherwise keep defending the indefensible.  

that's not the point, the point is you making assumptions based on your own doom and gloomed mentality. You really think Shero didnt inquirer about Trouba at all? and that winnipeg didnt prefer getting their pick back or something like this? 

Fact is you said he'd do nothing and he did something, proving you wrong.

[Daniel]

4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

that's not the point, the point is you making assumptions based on your own doom and gloomed mentality. You really think Shero didnt inquirer about Trouba at all? and that winnipeg didnt prefer getting their pick back or something like this? 

Fact is you said he'd do nothing and he did something, proving you wrong.

The team that Ray Shero has assembled is the second worst in the league only to a tanking Red Wings team.  His past teams have been bad enough to land the number 1 pick overall in two out of three seasons.  It has been embarrassed in the last two games and John Hynes is still the coach.  I don't give a crap what the Devils prospects ranking is and I don't care how much everyone at the Athletic likes Shero and thinks he's some kid of genius, at no point in the Lou Lamoirello era were things this bad and it got pretty ugly at the end.

Maybe turn your energy towards forcing Ray Shero to do what everyone knows needed to be done a month ago instead of harping on how I wanted Jacob Trouba over the summer.  Shero obviously doesn't listen to anyone and must have the biggest ego that ever graced professional sports, but every extra voice telling him to put up or shut up couldn't hurt.

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The team that Ray Shero has assembled is the second worst in the league only to a tanking Red Wings team.  His past teams have been bad enough to land the number 1 pick overall in two out of three seasons.  It has been embarrassed in the last two games and John Hynes is still the coach.  I don't give a crap what the Devils prospects ranking is and I don't care how much everyone at the Athletic likes Shero and thinks he's some kid of genius, at no point in the Lou Lamoirello era were things this bad and it got pretty ugly at the end.

Maybe turn your energy towards forcing Ray Shero to do what everyone knows needed to be done a month ago instead of harping on how I wanted Jacob Trouba over the summer.  Shero obviously doesn't listen to anyone and must have the biggest ego that ever graced professional sports, but every extra voice telling him to put up or shut up couldn't hurt.

You still don't understand and never understood how he was dealt a sh!tty team and had to rebuild from almost nothing. What he assembled is maybe not great yet but it's totally the best he could have possibly done with what he had to work with and the time he had. Nobody with common sense would debate that. Just the fact that you say that his team missed the playoffs 4 years out of 5 is showing how there's not even an attempt to understand the context here

Edited December 3, 2019 by SterioDesign

[Daniel]

5 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

You still don't understand and never understood how he was dealt a sh!tty team and had to rebuild from almost nothing. What he assembled is maybe not great yet but it's totally the best he could have possibly done with what he had to work with and the time he had. Nobody with common sense would debate that. Just the fact that you say that his team missed the playoffs 4 years out of 5 is showing how there's not even an attempt to understand the context here

What fvcking rebuild and what insight to do whatever he's doing could you possibly be talking about.  I say what rebuild because the word implies that you are actually building a team that can win sustainably, something that is not anywhere in sight.  As to what he's actually done, he's managed to get two number one overall picks by fielding extremely bad teams on purpose and took advantage of Pete Chiarelli like several other GMs and agents in the sport managed to do.  Hall for Larsson isn't the Tom Kurvers trade.  He has missed out on superior coaches (like Dave Tippet, for example) by sticking with John Hynes because the two of them are friends, which is how he literally chooses his coaching staff.

I know the "context" very well.  You don't have to keep repeating it.  It's been five years.  Shero has had a lot to work with during that time, much more than other teams that have had to tear it down.  In terms of winning and losing games, the thing that actually matters, the Devils are worse now than they were when Shero took over.  I don't see any other plan he can pursue now except keep getting prospects and draft picks and hopefully something pans out.  Even firing Hynes won't work because there's now not a quality coach to be had, especially a coach that fits his very narrow criteria. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The team that Ray Shero has assembled is the second worst in the league only to a tanking Red Wings team.  His past teams have been bad enough to land the number 1 pick overall in two out of three seasons.  It has been embarrassed in the last two games and John Hynes is still the coach.  I don't give a crap what the Devils prospects ranking is and I don't care how much everyone at the Athletic likes Shero and thinks he's some kid of genius, at no point in the Lou Lamoirello era were things this bad and it got pretty ugly at the end.

Maybe turn your energy towards forcing Ray Shero to do what everyone knows needed to be done a month ago instead of harping on how I wanted Jacob Trouba over the summer.  Shero obviously doesn't listen to anyone and must have the biggest ego that ever graced professional sports, but every extra voice telling him to put up or shut up couldn't hurt.

Given what Shero inherited, where do you think the team should be now?  I'm not saying it should be this bad this season, and I was definitely thinking "contend for a playoff spot", but how good should they be? 

8 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

You still don't understand and never understood how he was dealt a sh!tty team and had to rebuild from almost nothing. What he assembled is maybe not great yet but it's totally the best he could have possibly done with what he had to work with and the time he had. Nobody with common sense would debate that. Just the fact that you say that his team missed the playoffs 4 years out of 5 is showing how there's not even an attempt to understand the context here

I'd agree with the bolded up through last season, even though last year was a step back (and even though trades like the ones for MoJo and Mueller didn't work out).  The PK acquisition is Shero's first real "eeeeeeeeewwwww" move, and there was evidence to suggest that it was not a great risk to take (even though I 100% admit I wasn't aware of that at the time, mostly because PK's one of those players I just never paid that much attention to).  And the Hynes situation with him still somehow being here is really getting to be ridiculous.

But I agree in general with the bolded...given what he had to work with, he had the team on track to potential success fairly quickly initially. 

[SterioDesign]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

What fvcking rebuild and what insight to do whatever he's doing could you possibly be talking about.  I say what rebuild because the word implies that you are actually building a team that can win sustainably, something that is not anywhere in sight.  As to what he's actually done, he's managed to get two number one overall picks by fielding extremely bad teams on purpose and took advantage of Pete Chiarelli like several other GMs and agents in the sport managed to do.  Hall for Larsson isn't the Tom Kurvers trade.  He has missed out on superior coaches (like Dave Tippet, for example) by sticking with John Hynes because the two of them are friends, which is how he literally chooses his coaching staff.

I know the "context" very well.  You don't have to keep repeating it.  It's been five years.  Shero has had a lot to work with during that time, much more than other teams that have had to tear it down.  In terms of winning and losing games, the thing that actually matters, the Devils are worse now than they were when Shero took over.  I don't see any other plan he can pursue now except keep getting prospects and draft picks and hopefully something pans out.  Even firing Hynes won't work because there's now not a quality coach to be had, especially a coach that fits his very narrow criteria. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Man, look at our roster and prospect pool from 2015 and look at now and give your head a shake.

This might be the craziest thing you've ever said ever

[Daniel]

Just now, SterioDesign said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Man, look at our roster and prospect pool from 2015 and look at now and give your head a shake.

This might be the craziest thing you've ever said ever

How many points in the standings this year has our prospect pool gotten us?  And how many points in the standings is it getting us next year, in two years, three years?  Not very much, especially if you look at how terrible a team Bingo is with that wonderful prospect pool you speak of.   And how much of that prospect pool had anything to do with Ray Shero's genius anyway.  If the goal is to lose a lot of games and use the draft, just teach one of the homeless guys outside of the arena to trade guys on expiring contracts at the deadline and just show up at the draft with one of those draft guides and make some picks.  Josh Harris can get the same results and afford another ivory back scratcher.

Ray Shero shows no sign that he is even close to building a team that will sustainably win and he has shown that he will employ an incompetent coach based on friendship.  He should be on an extremely extremely short leash.