Jump to content
Daniel

Fire Hynes

Recommended Posts

I think a lot of people just latch onto buzz words and then regurgitate them like they are facts. The one recently is “system”. Hynes has no system, the system is terrible, etc. 

I don’t think any of us have a fvcking clue what the “system” is, or whether the players are failing to execute upon it. It’s just easier to say “Hynes sucks, his system sucks”. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I think a lot of people just latch onto buzz words and then regurgitate them like they are facts. The one recently is “system”. Hynes has no system, the system is terrible, etc. 

I don’t think any of us have a fvcking clue what the “system” is, or whether the players are failing to execute upon it. It’s just easier to say “Hynes sucks, his system sucks”. 

Hynes sucks because there is no evidence that anything he does can lead to sustainable winning, and it actually shows that he’s a consistent loser.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Daniel said:

You are not all the sudden going to get a turn around from Hynes, or there’s no evidence from his career as a coach that he will or knows how to. That’s why the only thing that doesn’t make it inevitable is Shero having an irrational attachment to him 

How much of a turnaround do we really need to start winning games? We're playing pretty even hockey at 5v5 of recent and Hughes keeps getting better and better [and less and less of a liability]. I'll agree that there's no reason to assume that the Devils' special teams will just get better due to the fact that stats tend to regress towards the mean in general - but if the Devils do fix their special teams, they will win games. I'm not saying it's a small order, but it's not unthinkable either. If the Devils were getting crushed at 5v5, I might be more inclined to agree there's no hope - and yet that seems to be the main crux of your argument, but that doesn't seem to me to be true. Alas, in the end you might be proven right about your larger claim that Hynes needs to be fired but I disagree with the nuances of your argument.

Edited by Neb00rs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been giving Hynes the benefit of the doubt, but after these past five games and seeing our blown 4-0 loss to the Jets (which I brutally saw live) I'm on the fire Hynes train. His post game interviews lack emotion, passion and any clear sense of direction. The fact that we are still seeing Wood and Rooney on the ice is a sign of delusion. 

Bye Hynes.

Edited by Aznjsn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Hynes sucks because there is no evidence that anything he does can lead to sustainable winning, and it actually shows that he’s a consistent loser.

That’s better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I think a lot of people just latch onto buzz words and then regurgitate them like they are facts. The one recently is “system”. Hynes has no system, the system is terrible, etc. 

I don’t think any of us have a fvcking clue what the “system” is, or whether the players are failing to execute upon it. It’s just easier to say “Hynes sucks, his system sucks”. 

I blame Mike Brown’s return to the board. 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Daniel said:

You are not all the sudden going to get a turn around from Hynes, or there’s no evidence from his career as a coach that he will or knows how to. That’s why the only thing that doesn’t make it inevitable is Shero having an irrational attachment to him 

The Devils finished out the 2016-17 season losing 19 of 21 and made the playoffs the next year.

If you want an in season example, the Devils lost 10 of 12 in 2017-18 and they went on to win 19 of the next 33.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Triumph said:

The Devils finished out the 2016-17 season losing 19 of 21 and made the playoffs the next year.

If you want an in season example, the Devils lost 10 of 12 in 2017-18 and they went on to win 19 of the next 33.

Then you know what, put money on him and you’ll be rich man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anything less than 5 out of 6 points this week and I’ll be on the fire the coaching staff train.

Edited by devlman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, devlman said:

Anything less than 5 out of 6 points this week and I’ll be on the fire the coaching staff train.

Well that’s a reasonable expectation given the result of all the games so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Well that’s a reasonable expectation given the result of all the games so far.

Based on opponents, playing at home, performance trajectory and what’s needed to not fall behind so far, why yes it is.

Edited by devlman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, devlman said:

Based on opponents, playing at home, performance trajectory and what’s needed to not fall behind so far, why yes it is.

Let’s hope. Tomorrow would be a good day to start. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Aznjsn said:

I've been giving Hynes the benefit of the doubt, but after these past five games and seeing our blown 4-0 loss to the Jets (which I brutally saw live) I'm on the fire Hynes train. His post game interviews lack emotion, passion and any clear sense of direction. The fact that we are still seeing Wood and Rooney on the ice is a sign of delusion. 

Bye Hynes.

Well is it really his fault tho? If blackwood made that save and kept the puck instead of having the puck laying there... we win that game and we don't care that much about the rest of the game. That was not Hynes fault

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well is it really his fault tho? If blackwood made that save and kept the puck instead of having the puck laying there... we win that game and we don't care that much about the rest of the game. That was not Hynes fault

There’s plenty of stuff being put on Hynes that isn’t his fault. But plenty of stuff that is as well. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I think a lot of people just latch onto buzz words and then regurgitate them like they are facts. The one recently is “system”. Hynes has no system, the system is terrible, etc. 

I don’t think any of us have a fvcking clue what the “system” is, or whether the players are failing to execute upon it. It’s just easier to say “Hynes sucks, his system sucks”. 

I've always been a pretty literal person in general, quite blunt and to the point, and when it comes to writing and reading comprehension, at some point in my life (I can't remember exactly when) I acquired a bit of a gift - not really on purpose or by design - in terms of the ability to ready and write, break down grammar, and so forth. So I completely understand people latching onto buzzwords, and I typically hate generalizations like those where people use words with little or no substance, but in this particular case I think the word "system" actually applies and is relevant when it comes to Hynes' criticisms.  There are lots of 'systems' in hockey that are pretty well known, some stick to teams themselves even after coaches and players that implemented and executed them are long gone (like us with the trap), while others are actually tied to those coaches who are supposed to be the ones to draw them up and put them in place and they tend to follow them around the league if they end up coaching multiple teams.  It doesn't matter whether it's the trap, the old Russian-style left wing lock, a 1-2-2, or a 2-1-1, or whatever you might want to call your style of play, generally speaking it can be categorized to some degree in one of those types of 'systems'. 

These 'systems' are a method for playing the game within the current set of rules, and in very simplistic terms, an attempt to score more goals than your opponent to win the game.  It's kind of like chess - there are two 'teams', and there are rules, and generally the people controlling the teams have certain styles, or "systems", they use in order to try to win the game.  These style and systems can vary, of course, but for the most part there are certain ones that players tend to stick to and use more often, and there are some that seem to be more successful and have a better chance of winning.

With Hynes, I don't see any of those.  The first 5 games of this season has seemed to be 18 players skating aimlessly around the rink.  I couldn't tell you if we're a 1-2-2 team, a 1-1-3 team, a heavy forechecking team, more of a passing/break-out team, or whatever - and to me, that's a problem.  Again, I understand styles can vary, and coaches are able to and allowed to try different things, and maybe Hynes has done that, but I really don't think that's the case, and even if he has, clearly nothing has worked.  He seems to shuffle personnel more than anything, and way too often.  The guy has had rosters made up of several different players over the past few years, so it's not like he's been stuck with guys who just can't succeed.  What I see is a coach who just doesn't know how to utilize the talent he's been given.  

I'll end this by stating that I was originally on board with the promotion of Hynes a few years ago.  I was actually pretty ecstatic about it.  I didn't know who was best for the job at the time and if there were any other candidates that seemed better suited for the position, but I was glad he was getting a shot for two reasons - A) I'm a pretty big proponent of chemistry and coach/player relationships, and with Hynes coming from the AHL, I thought it was a great opportunity for him to go to the big leagues and already have established some connections to some of the guys he would be coaching, based on their time spent together in the minors, and B ) that it worked for the Lightning a few years prior, with Cooper doing the same thing and coming from the AHL.  You could make the argument that the Lightning haven't gotten over the hump, and maybe that's valid, but I digress - we're not nearly in that same position - the Bolts have had a ton of success and been really consistent, whereas we've unfortunately been quite the opposite.  

Right wrong or indifferent, I no longer feel Hynes is the right man for the job, and I think his lack of a system is a big part of it.

Edited by NJDfan1711
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So let me preface this long-winded post by saying.. I think it's pretty clear I'm on the "fire Hynes" bandwagon at this point.  

But anyway - I think this horrific start can at least partly be attributed to circumstance:

- vs Jets: Team was rolling until Cory went down.  I mean, the Jets had started to gather some momentum prior to his 'cramping' but imo if Cory stays healthy they probably win the game.  Don't get me wrong, blowing a 4 goal lead in most circumstances is unacceptable but.. we can agree this is a somewhat unique instance.  Blackwood was clearly not mentally prepared to go in (not blaming him) and the team looked shellshocked.

- @ Sabres: Sabres home opener, team was buzzing.  Also worth noting the Sabres were undefeated at the time and are currently leading their division at 4-0-1.  Also the second game of a back-to-back against a fresh team in their building.  Tough matchup to say the least.

- @ Flyers: This one is tough.  Hard to justify the team not showing up, though it's worth mentioning the Flyers were undefeated in regulation going into the game... and they still are FWIW.

- vs. Oilers: Second game of a back-to-back against another undefeated team that's one of the hottest out of the gate.. and the Devils played a pretty good game overall.  With a competent PK/PP this one's probably a hard fought W.

- @ Bruins: Home opener for the Bruins in a building where the Devils haven't had any success as of late.  Don't know why the team even bothered travelling to be honest.

So, imo, this schedule thus far has been absolutely brutal for the Devils.  I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that any team with so many new faces is likely to stumble out of the gate.. and this first stretch has certainly done the team no favors.

I think, best case scenario, this team is probably 2-2-1 in the above games.  And many people, myself included, would probably still be very upset with that record.

ALL THE ABOVE SAID - I think this is a perfect time to get rid of Hynes.  Shero wasn't going to ditch his guy if the team was doing well despite the poor coaching.. this start gives Shero the justification to be like "Sorry bud, you tried but it's time to move on".  

The team now has a 6 game homestand coming up, starting this afternoon against a so-so Panthers team:

- vs Panthers

- vs Rags

- vs Canucks

- vs Coyotes

- vs Lightning

- vs Flyers

If they don't walk away with at least 10 points I think I think you've got to can Hynes now or this team is probably too far out of the hunt by Thanksgiving to even be worried about the playoffs come 2020.

Edited by Devilsfan118
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hynes used to use the mantra of "fast, attacking, supportive" and I took that as his "system."  I really haven't heard that since at least the 17-18 season so as it stands right now I have no clue what Hynes system is.  That in itself seems to be a big issue.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I've always been a pretty literal person in general, quite blunt and to the point, and when it comes to writing and reading comprehension, at some point in my life (I can't remember exactly when) I acquired a bit of a gift - not really on purpose or by design - in terms of the ability to ready and write, break down grammar, and so forth. So I completely understand people latching onto buzzwords, and I typically hate generalizations like those where people use words with little or no substance, but in this particular case I think the word "system" actually applies and is relevant when it comes to Hynes' criticisms.  There are lots of 'systems' in hockey that are pretty well known, some stick to teams themselves even after coaches and players that implemented and executed them are long gone (like us with the trap), while others are actually tied to those coaches who are supposed to be the ones to draw them up and put them in place and they tend to follow them around the league if they end up coaching multiple teams.  It doesn't matter whether it's the trap, the old Russian-style left wing lock, a 1-2-2, or a 2-1-1, or whatever you might want to call your style of play, generally speaking it can be categorized to some degree in one of those types of 'systems'. 

These 'systems' are a method for playing the game within the current set of rules, and in very simplistic terms, an attempt to score more goals than your opponent to win the game.  It's kind of like chess - there are two 'teams', and there are rules, and generally the people controlling the teams have certain styles, or "systems", they use in order to try to win the game.  These style and systems can vary, of course, but for the most part there are certain ones that players tend to stick to and use more often, and there are some that seem to be more successful and have a better chance of winning.

With Hynes, I don't see any of those.  The first 5 games of this season has seemed to be 18 players skating aimlessly around the rink.  I couldn't tell you if we're a 1-2-2 team, a 1-1-3 team, a heavy forechecking team, more of a passing/break-out team, or whatever - and to me, that's a problem.  Again, I understand styles can vary, and coaches are able to and allowed to try different things, and maybe Hynes has done that, but I really don't think that's the case, and even if he has, clearly nothing has worked.  He seems to shuffle personnel more than anything, and way too often.  The guy has had rosters made up of several different players over the past few years, so it's not like he's been stuck with guys who just can't succeed.  What I see is a coach who just doesn't know how to utilize the talent he's been given.  

I'll end this by stating that I was originally on board with the promotion of Hynes a few years ago.  I was actually pretty ecstatic about it.  I didn't know who was best for the job at the time and if there were any other candidates that seemed better suited for the position, but I was glad he was getting a shot for two reasons - A) I'm a pretty big proponent of chemistry and coach/player relationships, and with Hynes coming from the AHL, I thought it was a great opportunity for him to go to the big leagues and already have established some connections to some of the guys he would be coaching, based on their time spent together in the minors, and B ) that it worked for the Lightning a few years prior, with Cooper doing the same thing and coming from the AHL.  You could make the argument that the Lightning haven't gotten over the hump, and maybe that's valid, but I digress - we're not nearly in that same position - the Bolts have had a ton of success and been really consistent, whereas we've unfortunately been quite the opposite.  

Right wrong or indifferent, I no longer feel Hynes is the right man for the job, and I think his lack of a system is a big part of it.

My response to that is much simpler: bullish!t. 
 

You aren’t in the locker room. You aren’t in practice. You have no idea what Hynes does or does not tell the players. The fact that YOU don’t know what his system is is irrelevant. 
 

I also find it hard to believe that a guy could maintain a job as an NHL coach and have “no system”. I guarantee he’s not going out there and winging it at the NHL level, even if we as fans think that’s what we’re seeing. 
 

It’s far more reasonable to believe that whatever the system is (and granted, it could be an awful system), the players are not executing it or it simply isn’t working. Sorry to say, but I would have to think 99.999% of us have no idea about such things because we aren’t in the NHL nor have we ever been close. This, when you throw out something like “Hynes has no system”, you’re really talking directly out of your ass to some degree. 

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

Hynes used to use the mantra of "fast, attacking, supportive" and I took that as his "system."  I really haven't heard that since at least the 17-18 season so as it stands right now I have no clue what Hynes system is.  That in itself seems to be a big issue.

It IS an issue, because it means whatever the system is, it either sucks or the players aren’t executing it. But again, you aren’t on the team and you aren’t privy to whatever the system may be. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

My response to that is much simpler: bullish!t. 
 

You aren’t in the locker room. You aren’t in practice. You have no idea what Hynes does or does not tell the players. The fact that YOU don’t know what his system is is irrelevant. 
 

I also find it hard to believe that a guy could maintain a job as an NHL coach and have “no system”. I guarantee he’s not going out there and winging it at the NHL level, even if we as fans think that’s what we’re seeing. 
 

It’s far more reasonable to believe that whatever the system is (and granted, it could be an awful system), the players are not executing it or it simply isn’t working. Sorry to say, but I would have to think 99.999% of us have no idea about such things because we aren’t in the NHL nor have we ever been close. This, when you throw out something like “Hynes has no system”, you’re really talking directly out of your ass to some degree. 

It IS an issue, because it means whatever the system is, it either sucks or the players aren’t executing it. But again, you aren’t on the team and you aren’t privy to whatever the system may be. 

That's true I am not in the locker room, but there are signs that are visible to us that something's rotten here.  The players look completely unprepared most games so far and the lineup combos right now are either not thought through well enough or too much thought went into them.  Signs are more pointing to an issue with the system or lack thereof.  Even if there was a system and the players are not executing, that usually means the coach has lost the locker room.  At that point we reach the same conclusion about the coach needing to be replaced whether it is the coach's fault or not.

Also, fwiw, after Gretzky stepped down as coach of Phoenix, several players said in interviews later on that under Gretzky they had no idea what the system was.  That or that there was a system but it changed on a nearly weekly basis.  Even the Great One seemed to have been winging it behind the bench so I don't think coaches in the NHL are immune to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

My response to that is much simpler: bullish!t. 
 

You aren’t in the locker room. You aren’t in practice. You have no idea what Hynes does or does not tell the players. The fact that YOU don’t know what his system is is irrelevant. 
 

I also find it hard to believe that a guy could maintain a job as an NHL coach and have “no system”. I guarantee he’s not going out there and winging it at the NHL level, even if we as fans think that’s what we’re seeing. 
 

It’s far more reasonable to believe that whatever the system is (and granted, it could be an awful system), the players are not executing it or it simply isn’t working. Sorry to say, but I would have to think 99.999% of us have no idea about such things because we aren’t in the NHL nor have we ever been close. This, when you throw out something like “Hynes has no system”, you’re really talking directly out of your ass to some degree. 

It IS an issue, because it means whatever the system is, it either sucks or the players aren’t executing it. But again, you aren’t on the team and you aren’t privy to whatever the system may be. 

The fact that I don't know what his system is isn't exactly irrelevant.  Maybe me alone, but clearly I'm not.  Me and thousands of others don't see it either.  And not that me, or any of those other thousands are necessarily capable of being part of an NHL team's executive staff, but if we don't see it, chances are upper management doesn't either.  

And I'm not at all suggesting that he's going out there and 'winging it'.  Going back to my example of a teacher with students in a class preparing for a test, this isn't akin to a kid who is lazy and didn't study, or try to study anyway, and got a poor grade on a test.  Rather, this would be like a kid who just doesn't get it.  He doesn't know the material and he needs someone else to show him.  Hynes doesn't know what he's doing.  He's trying, I think that much is obvious - I'm sure he wants to remain employed and I'm sure he wants to win - every kid wants to get an A - but you need to know how.  Hynes doesn't. 

And the very crux of this discussion is with the bolded - it's been 4-5 Hynes, and for that very reason, if things don't change soon, I believe he ISN'T going to maintain a job as an NHL coach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

That's true I am not in the locker room, but there are signs that are visible to us that something's rotten here. 

Oh, I wasn’t arguing that all’s well lol.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, NJDfan1711 said:

The fact that I don't know what his system is isn't exactly irrelevant.  

Which is it, you don’t know what it is or there is none?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, mfitz804 said:

Which is it, you don’t know what it is or there is none?

Both.  I don't know what it is, because there isn't one.  I can't name something that doesn't exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, if you're implying that I don't know what it is, and you do, then please, by all means, let me know what you think it is.  I'd actually love to know what you think it is lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Also, if you're implying that I don't know what it is, and you do, then please, by all means, let me know what you think it is.  I'd actually love to know what you think it is lol.

I would think that someone who has such a gift for reading comprehension would know the answer to that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.