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Fire Hynes

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19 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Also, if you're implying that I don't know what it is, and you do, then please, by all means, let me know what you think it is.  I'd actually love to know what you think it is lol.

In the words of Bob Eucker in ‘Major League 2’ - “Obviously Taylor is thinking.... I dunno what the hell he’s thinking.” And that’s how I feel with the team right now.

You ever play the EA version the NHL video games? You know how you can set different strategies for each line, and there’s like 4 options? I feel like each line is given a different game-plan, which on paper, should work just fine. Big problem is if you only train the individual players to that strategy, when you start shredding your lines and playing the proverbial slot machine with them, you have three different guys with three different mind sets. Now, there is absolutely zero way in hell an NHL player can’t adjust to whatever role they are given, and this is an extremely over simplification of how I feel the team is acting.

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23 minutes ago, jagknife said:

In the words of Bob Eucker in ‘Major League 2’ - “Obviously Taylor is thinking.... I dunno what the hell he’s thinking.” And that’s how I feel with the team right now.

You ever play the EA version the NHL video games? You know how you can set different strategies for each line, and there’s like 4 options? I feel like each line is given a different game-plan, which on paper, should work just fine. Big problem is if you only train the individual players to that strategy, when you start shredding your lines and playing the proverbial slot machine with them, you have three different guys with three different mind sets. Now, there is absolutely zero way in hell an NHL player can’t adjust to whatever role they are given, and this is an extremely over simplification of how I feel the team is acting.

Yep - I didn't want to bring up that example because I feel like some people (I'm looking at you, mfitz ;) ) would jump on it and say "oh c'mon you're just a video game jockey, you can't compare that to the real NHL", but it's actually true.  Credit to EA for the work they did - a few years ago I think is when they made it a point to implement a lot of that individual line combo/strategy adjusting, and they included options for real life tactics and systems.  

I agree, the line over-aggressive line switching as probably led to guys losing any identify they may have had with a potential system that they were taught or instructed to play, however, I also feel like, in your example of setting each individual line with a particular strategy, that Hynes' settings would be just blank.  I feel like he hasn't set a particular line to do anything specific.  

If I had it my way, I generally prefer my top 2 lines to be my scoring threats - quick, snipers, and use them in a run and gun type fashion.  Most people probably would do the same, but everyone is different.  My 3rd and 4th lines would be your slower grinder types, where I'd typically have the 4th line as a pure checking line, trying to force turnovers and wear the other team down, while the 3rd line would be more of a heaving forechecking line, particularly along the boards, cycling the puck, and what not.  Some people try to go 3 lines of pure scorers, and only one grinding line, or some people just go 3 deep lines and no checking line at all really...it all depends on your personnel of course, but the point is that indeed each line, depending on how you construct them, is generally thought to be playing with a certain style in mind.

The way Hynes constructs his lines I just don't see any of the combinations doing anything in particular.  I mean, the Hall-Hischier-Palmieri line has been together for a while so they would be the most likely to have some type of style attributed to them, but can anyone actually say what it is?  I mean fvck, I suppose you could say it's a bit of a carry-first style where Hall is usually the one leading the break out and taking the puck up ice because he has some nice moves and can cut through the neutral zone, but that doesn't really seem like it happens often or with any regularity - just as often I see that line force dump-ins, bad passes through the neutral zone, etc.  And that's for our best and most predictable line - I couldn't even begin to tell you what the other 3 lines are even doing.  To me I have just seen random chaos out there.  It's one of the most incohesive units I've seen in a long time, especially give the amount of raw talent that they possess.

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56 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I would think that someone who has such a gift for reading comprehension would know the answer to that. 

Well you said you don't think any of us have a clue what the system is, and if you're lumping yourself into that group, then that would mean you don't know what it is either - and if that's the case, then I don't understand how you don't see an issue with that. If the conclusion is that you're fine not knowing what system the head coach of your team employs - even if it's not a tried and true by-the-book definition of a traditional system - but at least some semblance of one, then by all means enjoy the remaining 77 games of the season.  But me, I'd rather watch games at least having some idea what the head coach is doing out there.  If your argument was that having a particular system is too 'predictable' and that if we played something so tight and stringent and didn't just let the players organically create their own plays, I could understand that, to an extent, but when we were a 'trap' team in the 90s the rest of the league knew it - it wasn't a secret.   And it worked.  They knew what we were doing and we won because we played a system that we were good at and could execute well.  I think we have players capable of executing quite a few different systems, I just don't really see much of any being tried.  

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1 minute ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Well you said you don't think any of us have a clue what the system is, and if you're lumping yourself into that group, then that would mean you don't know what it is either - and if that's the case, then I don't understand how you don't see an issue with that. If the conclusion is that you're fine not knowing what system the head coach of your team employs - even if it's not a tried and true by-the-book definition of a traditional system - but at least some semblance of one, then by all means enjoy the remaining 77 games of the season.  But me, I'd rather watch games at least having some idea what the head coach is doing out there.  If your argument was that having a particular system is too 'predictable' and that if we played something so tight and stringent and didn't just let the players organically create their own plays, I could understand that, to an extent, but when we were a 'trap' team in the 90s the rest of the league knew it - it wasn't a secret.   And it worked.  They knew what we were doing and we won because we played a system that we were good at and could execute well.  I think we have players capable of executing quite a few different systems, I just don't really see much of any being tried.  

Wait, so there’s no system, or there’s not much of a system being tried, or something else? 
 

I’m just going to keep asking to see how many different versions of the argument you try. 
 

I don’t know the “system”. I’m not in practice either. But I’m 100% sure that they are t just going out there and winging it every night. There’s no way a guy like Hynes would do that at the NHL level, nor would Shero tolerate a coach doing that for 4-5 years. 

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10 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Wait, so there’s no system, or there’s not much of a system being tried, or something else? 
 

I’m just going to keep asking to see how many different versions of the argument you try. 
 

I don’t know the “system”. I’m not in practice either. But I’m 100% sure that they are t just going out there and winging it every night. There’s no way a guy like Hynes would do that at the NHL level, nor would Shero tolerate a coach doing that for 4-5 years. 

You're not understanding.  I asked if you were fine watching a game where you didn't know what system the head coach was employing, whether it was a full-blow by the book "trap" system for example, or even some type of hybrid approach of a system, maybe a little bit of a trap mixed with aggressive forechecking. Or maybe two lines play one system and the other two player another.  But something, anything.  I'd be fine with that.  I don't know what Hynes is doing for a system because I don't think there is one.  I'm not trying different versions of anything - I've said this a few times now so I hope it's clearer having just said it again.

To your point about Shero tolerating it for 4-5 years, I agree that's a bit long, but it's not exactly an eternity - plenty of GMs give coaches long leashes.  I can't think of a great hockey one of the top of my head, but look at the Bengals in football - Marvin Lewis was given like 15 years of performing in mediocrity before he FINALLY got the axe.  Hynes' tenure isn't even a third of that.  Not to mention, and I'll give him this, that he had pretty crappy players to work with initially, so it's very possible Shero has given him a couple seasons of leeway while he re-constructed the roster himself.  But now that he's had some talent for the past couple seasons, and given this start, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ray has already started inquiring about potential replacements. 

Edited by NJDfan1711

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2 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

You're not understanding.  I asked if you were fine watching a game where you didn't know what system the head coach was employing, whether it was a full-blow by the book "trap" system for example, or even some type of hybrid approach of a system, maybe a little bit of a trap mixed with aggressive forechecking. Or maybe two lines play one system and the other two player another.  But something, anything.  I'd be fine with that.  I don't know what Hynes is doing for a system because I don't think there is one.  I'm not trying different versions of anything - I've said this a few times now so I hope it's clearer having just said it again.

To your point about Shero tolerating it for 4-5 years, I agree that's a bit long, but it's not exactly an eternity - plenty of GMs give coaches long leashes.  I can't think of a great hockey one of the top of my head, but look at the Bengals in football - Marvin Lewis was given like 15 years of performing in mediocrity before he FINALLY got the axe.  Hynes' tenure isn't even a third of that.  Not to mention, and I'll give him this, that he had pretty crappy players to work with initially, so it's very possible Shero has given him a couple seasons of leeway while he re-constructed the roster himself.  But now that he's had some talent for the past couple seasons, and given this start, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ray has already started inquiring about potential replacements. 

I understand what you are saying, it just doesn’t make any sense.

And you STILL said it yet another way, now you don’t know what system it is because you don’t THINK there is one??


Your theory is that Hynes walks into practice and has NO system, NO instruction to the players as to what they should be doing. Nothing at all. That’s your theory?

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29 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I understand what you are saying, it just doesn’t make any sense.

And you STILL said it yet another way, now you don’t know what system it is because you don’t THINK there is one??


Your theory is that Hynes walks into practice and has NO system, NO instruction to the players as to what they should be doing. Nothing at all. That’s your theory?

Yes man, I don't THINK there is a system.  I cannot say for absolute certainty because I'm not him.  But if you are asking me what system or strategy the Devils currently use most nights, I cannot tell you what it is, because I don't think there is one. 

I said it another way because I'm trying to help you understand - it's possible to convey the same message in more than one way.  I tried two or three ways and to you it still doesn't make sense, which is why, yes, I did say it another way.  It's the same thing, just rephrased. 

My theory is that Hynes walks into practice and instructs the players and has them do drills - skating, speed, passing, whatever it is he deems important.  What I don't think is happening is any emphasis on any of the several other types of common NHL systems or styles that I mentioned earlier.  I don't think that's happening.  

Again, you're stuck on the fact that I don't think he has a system at all, but that one must exist simply because it has to, and that you're OK not knowing what it is. That's fine, but I'm not.  Especially when our team is 0-3-2. 

You really haven't substantiated anything in terms of what his system might be, so I'll do you another one and play my own devil's advocate here.  Let's say his "system" is that he dictates his instruction and practice time based on the team's upcoming opponents.  Some people might think that's wise - they'd say "OK, this makes sense - you should be prepared for who you're going to play next, and understand what the other team tries to do".   Study film, right?  Sure.  Nothing wrong with that.  But if that's all you do then you're just being reactionary.  It's like playing defense 100% of the time and just trying to stop what you opponent might do.  You don't win games that way.  I would much rather prefer having a head coach who had the mentality of "We know who we're playing tomorrow.  fvck what they're gonna do.  We're gonna do this. Because we're great at it.  And THEY are going to have to try to stop US."

Again, there's not even any evidence that Hynes even does THAT - I'm simply throwing out examples for you that would make Hynes look slightly less incompetent.  But alas, I don't think he's even doing that.  I don't think we're all that prepared for our opponents other than throwing in a Kevin Rooney when we play Philly so that we are "tougher".  And even if he was doing that, as I noted above, that's just reactionary.  If we want to win we need a system.  Some type of identity and style that the players can learn, practice, and be subject matter experts in.  

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1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

You really haven't substantiated anything in terms of what his system might be,

That’s because I know I have no way of knowing that. 

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

That’s because I know I have no way of knowing that. 

Sure you do.  What you see on the ice during games.

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One of the reason Shero was fired from Pittsburg (alongside some problem building the D) was to stay faithful to his coach until death.

Does he learn from that ? 

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Welll that its his fault or not. Let's fire him. Something has to happen and you can't fire the players

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Just now, DevsMan84 said:

Coach Loser is at 0-4-2 this season.

It’s not his fault.  Look at the corsi and forceee and all the other made up statistics that show he’s actually really winning the games, even though who actually wins is totally luck.

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I mean, it's the same story every game. As soon as the other team adjusts in-game, we look lost. Hynes just can't the team competitive through 60 minutes. He's either getting out x'd and o'd or the team just randomly gives up. The latter isn't very likely.

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Shero didn't fired Bylsma... He seems like a smart guy that can learn from his mistake.... 
I'm still convinced that he will not fired Hynes yet but it's clear that he doesn't have any more choice 

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4 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

I mean, it's the same story every game. As soon as the other team adjusts in-game, we look lost. Hynes just can't the team competitive through 60 minutes. He's either getting out x'd and o'd or the team just randomly gives up. The latter isn't very likely.

Joel Q could have got drunk during the game, and he’d still out coach that bald fvck. 

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9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Welll that its his fault or not. Let's fire him. Something has to happen and you can't fire the players

It’s his fault 

Just now, Jerrydevil said:

I would imagine that Hynes has a handful of games to turn this around, if that.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results

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This season is already over and it’s freaking October 14th for fvck sake.

If you want a chance at this season NOT being over, there needs to be a new voice with a new strategy in there NOW. Not tomorrow or a week from now or a month from now..........

 

NOW

Edited by njbuff

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Just now, njbuff said:

This season is already over and it freaking October 14th for fvck sake.

If you want a chance at this season NOT being over, there needs to be a new voice with a new strategy in there NOW. Not tomorrow or a week from now or a month from now..........

 

NOW

It's over while Hynes is the coach.  Otherwise, there are good players on this team who have shown in the past that they can perform none of whom are not on the wrong side of 35.  When that team hasn't won, hasn't scored a power play goal and has a penalty kill under 50%, IT'S THE COACHES' FAULT.  It really should not be very hard to figure out. 

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Wondering if Sheri does things in blocks of 10 like Lou used to. If so 4 more games. 

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Even if one think Hynes does nothing wrong and it’s all players’ fault you can’t fire 23 players

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The season is not over yet unless Hynes is allowed to continue coaching it.

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