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Fire Hynes

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I am nearly certain we used our timeout when Schneider skated to the bench after the goal.

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3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I am nearly certain we used our timeout when Schneider skated to the bench after the goal.

we did not - that was an injury stoppage and the timeout was not used.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

guys - this is as tough a regular season loss as you're gonna get. with all the excitement going into the season, and a 4 goal lead - people couldn't be more excited. and then the bottom fell out. there was plenty of blame on the players that led to the goals but hynes and co didn't put them in the best position to succeed.

why, when the game is clearly slipping away at 4-3, is there not a timeout and regroup? why, when you realize that you need to weather a storm, don't you bench meuller completely and rotate severson in with greene when PK needs a blow? why don't you bench the over-excited rookie who still has a way to go with his defensive game? Hynes did these things. At 4-4. He was unable to recognize this as it was getting to 4-3 and even after.

this one still stings plenty. games like this make you wonder if, as many of us suspected, hynes is the type of coach that can get you on the right track as an organization, but when given talent and expectations to win, that's when you need someone else to see it through.

i firmly believe that the sustained playoff run window of this current core will be with another coach at the helm.

What you're suggesting in the broader strokes means coaching every game like it's the last game of the season.  Granted I had put on the Yankees when it went to 4-0 and didn't come back to the game until Schneider was out, but Mueller's exactly the guy you want to play when you're ahead 2 goals in the 3rd period.  If you can't play Mueller in that spot, he shouldn't be playing at all - he's terrible offensively but he's one of the best defensive players on the team.  Yeah, Hughes is weak defensively right now, but he's going to have to get better at this - the Devils have the luxury now of benching him in games where they have leads, but how long will that last?  If he's going to sit in those spots, at least let him earn that seat first.

The team has a lot of new players and they've played 0 regular season games before tonight.   There's going to be a period of evaluation, and there should be.

 

Edited by Triumph

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Hypothetically, who could we even replace Hynes with? Not much out there right now-  you’d likely have to wait for another team to fire a decent coach. 

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I know Daniel works in a special way, where he gets conversation going by dropping a grenade on the board - but yeah, starting a thread after game 1 of a new season with the premise of "fire Hynes," disqualifies this thread from being a platform for reasonable debate.

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18 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

I know Daniel works in a special way, where he gets conversation going by dropping a grenade on the board - but yeah, starting a thread after game 1 of a new season with the premise of "fire Hynes," disqualifies this thread from being a platform for reasonable debate.

my brother is emotional - it's an acquired taste.

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55 minutes ago, Triumph said:

What you're suggesting in the broader strokes means coaching every game like it's the last game of the season.  Granted I had put on the Yankees when it went to 4-0 and didn't come back to the game until Schneider was out, but Mueller's exactly the guy you want to play when you're ahead 2 goals in the 3rd period.  If you can't play Mueller in that spot, he shouldn't be playing at all - he's terrible offensively but he's one of the best defensive players on the team.  Yeah, Hughes is weak defensively right now, but he's going to have to get better at this - the Devils have the luxury now of benching him in games where they have leads, but how long will that last?  If he's going to sit in those spots, at least let him earn that seat first.

The team has a lot of new players and they've played 0 regular season games before tonight.   There's going to be a period of evaluation, and there should be.

 

this is valid and sure, it makes sense that game 1 of 82 is where you try things but meuller is not a good defensive player. he is the definition of a grenade handler but what's amazing is that the simple play - the bank of the glass or even an icing - he didn't do that. hynes and co stress that the zone exit needs to be either a skate out or a good pass and those things are what meuller is terrible at.

he's a big body who takes up space - that's about all i can say about him.

absolutely play these guys up 4-0. but also have a feel for the game. this was slipping away and a good coach would at least make reasonable decisions to put the best guys out for the situation (which would be a steady diet of Nico and zajac and PK every other shift.

 

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Posted (edited)

For me, where I am with Hynes is that I just don't see anything that makes me believe he takes this team to a championship - not that a coach can do it alone. The thing that makes me like him most - that he's a really good guy - is something, logically, I should be pushing myself to ignore when it comes to judging quality of the coach.

With so many of his decisions I find my mind trying to justify them by telling myself that there's some three-dimensional chess going on that I just don't understand. But when I hear him say things like, "I put Hayden with Hughes-Gusev to help stabilize that line," it makes me think that his thinking is actually really simplistic a la "Put big player with small bad defensive players to make line stronger." And then when it doesn't work he has no more creative answers. I see plenty of line variation, but not a lot of real-time strategy adaptation in-game.

The "coach's loss" thing is inane - I doubt Hynes' critics are ever going to start calling out "coach's wins" - presumably those just won't exist. But yeah, I'm kind of with Sundstrom here, he's done a lot to build the team, teach the team, develop the prospects, create a positive atmosphere for the players - but I have that feeling it's going to be more of an a$$hole that gets this team to the promised land.

Edited by Neb00rs

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Posted (edited)

How about trying the stuff that got you to 4-0 and seeing if it works for 60 minutes before fixing stuff that wasn't broke.  There are times to experiment, that isn't one of them.

Really Hynes' worst move was putting Hayden with Gusev and Hughes.  That directly led to two goals against and there's no reason to 'try' a fourth liner who stinks with those two.  Heck they could have moved Hughes down and one of the Z's up if they wanted to have a more defensive line.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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3 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I'm convinced he is fvcking with us. There is no way he isn't trolling. If he is really this out of his mind he'd have to be commenting from a state mental facility

i'd usually think that... but not sure he deserves the benefit of the doubt after that meltdown this summer lol

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2 hours ago, sundstrom said:

this is valid and sure, it makes sense that game 1 of 82 is where you try things but meuller is not a good defensive player. he is the definition of a grenade handler but what's amazing is that the simple play - the bank of the glass or even an icing - he didn't do that. hynes and co stress that the zone exit needs to be either a skate out or a good pass and those things are what meuller is terrible at.

he's a big body who takes up space - that's about all i can say about him.

absolutely play these guys up 4-0. but also have a feel for the game. this was slipping away and a good coach would at least make reasonable decisions to put the best guys out for the situation (which would be a steady diet of Nico and zajac and PK every other shift.

 

Mueller is a good defensive player though.  If you don't need more goals, Mueller's worst attributes are neutralized.  He plays solid in-zone defense.  

Zajac ended up playing 19 minutes and Nico 20 minutes.  I wouldn't want these guys to get significantly more.  The Devils can't just run with 2 centers down the stretch of games.  'The feel of the game' is post-facto stuff - most of the time the Devils win this game.  They didn't even play particularly poorly in the 3rd period.  It's not like Winnipeg dominated that period and the Devils went into a huge shell - they had chances to score a 5th goal.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

How about trying the stuff that got you to 4-0 and seeing if it works for 60 minutes before fixing stuff that wasn't broke.  There are times to experiment, that isn't one of them.

Really Hynes' worst move was putting Hayden with Gusev and Hughes.  That directly led to two goals against and there's no reason to 'try' a fourth liner who stinks with those two.  Heck they could have moved Hughes down and one of the Z's up if they wanted to have a more defensive line.

You're right, Game 1 is not the time to experiment.  A game earlier in the season would be better.

The Devils did not play particularly well to go up 4-0.  Two lucky bounces on net front plays, a point shot, and a highlight-reel individual effort goal.  This was far from domination.  They didn't play particularly poorly when they gave up 4 straight, either.  

Edited by Triumph
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2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

How about trying the stuff that got you to 4-0 and seeing if it works for 60 minutes before fixing stuff that wasn't broke.  There are times to experiment, that isn't one of them.

Really Hynes' worst move was putting Hayden with Gusev and Hughes.  That directly led to two goals against and there's no reason to 'try' a fourth liner who stinks with those two.  Heck they could have moved Hughes down and one of the Z's up if they wanted to have a more defensive line.

I didn't think the Devils were very good in the first two periods, and I actually thought some luck helped them keep the game at 0-0 and thus, later go up 4-0.

Hayden with Gusev and Hughes was a bad move, but imo, mostly because there's not many players who would make Gusev-Hughes work. Not right now at least.

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Posted (edited)

So we still gonna mock the 2010 comparisons until the team goes 10-25 and Hynes is out?

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Enjoy incompetence because the spreadsheet says Hynes knows what he’s doing.

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1 minute ago, NJDevs4978 said:

So we still gonna mock the 2010 comparisons until the team goes 10-25 and Hynes is out?

I think I need the 10-11 comparisons thing explained to me before I judge it's applicability to this season. Is it just "big expectations turns to nightmare season?" If so, okay fine, easy, but fine. The idea that things could hit rock bottom isn't too farfetched but yeah, no matter how bad the Devils play, it's kind of silly to start declaring us in 10-11 situation after 1 and then 2 games. People aren't disagreeing with the potential of that happening but with the eagerness and earliness with which some are portending such.

No doubt, tonight was not a good look for Hynes and I've been critical of him constantly. He just had no answers, nothing creative to offer, and isn't the kind of coach that seems able to draw something up that protects the players from themselves a la Lemaire and the 10-11 Devils. But fire Hynes is a ridiculous premise right now because the season just started - a season that features a roster full of new and inexperienced players. This thread will look more and more competent if the sh!t play continues for a few more games, but that it was started after game 1 with the declaration of "coach's loss" will never really be fair.

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24 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

I think I need the 10-11 comparisons thing explained to me before I judge it's applicability to this season. Is it just "big expectations turns to nightmare season?" If so, okay fine, easy, but fine. The idea that things could hit rock bottom isn't too farfetched but yeah, no matter how bad the Devils play, it's kind of silly to start declaring us in 10-11 situation after 1 and then 2 games. People aren't disagreeing with the potential of that happening but with the eagerness and earliness with which some are portending such.

No doubt, tonight was not a good look for Hynes and I've been critical of him constantly. He just had no answers, nothing creative to offer, and isn't the kind of coach that seems able to draw something up that protects the players from themselves a la Lemaire and the 10-11 Devils. But fire Hynes is a ridiculous premise right now because the season just started - a season that features a roster full of new and inexperienced players. This thread will look more and more competent if the sh!t play continues for a few more games, but that it was started after game 1 with the declaration of "coach's loss" will never really be fair.

He has a long track record of having awful teams, two that were bad enough to get the number 1 pick overall.  His crapiness has been on display for long enough that he doesn’t get a grace period anymore.  How many players only meetings has the team had to have?  Too many to count.

All he has is the faux tough guy look which doesn’t impress anyone.  

Don’t know who replaces him, but all I know is that ownership should shell out however much it takes to get Larry Robinson to work with the defense.   And if Mike Yeo comes anywhere near this team, I’m burning all my jerseys almost as a type of exorcism.

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Robinson has a nice cushy job as a consultant with STL. He’s not coming back to coaching. 

They should try and get Rafalski or White maybe. 

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4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

And if Mike Yeo comes anywhere near this team, I’m burning all my jerseys almost as a type of exorcism.

I’d rather have Mike Brown coach the team over Mike Yeo.

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1 minute ago, Daniel said:

He has a long track record of having awful teams, two that were bad enough to get the number 1 pick overall.  His crapiness has been on display for long enough that he doesn’t get a grace period anymore.  How many players only meetings has the team had to have?  Too many to count.

The issue is not that you want Hynes fired - that's a reasonable POV. The issue is that the first game inspired you to start this thread - that made no sense. Between the end of last season and the end of the first game, no one made a noise about firing Hynes. That tells me that your "fire Hynes" outburst, at least this time, is an emotional tirade.

Quote

All he has is the faux tough guy look which doesn’t impress anyone. 

Agreed on that point. It doesn't come off as authentic but rather seems like a way to cover up some sort of insecurity.

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I just can't look at our D, see the young guys and I just feel they aren't taking the next step. You can't change the players. Change the coaching staff. Nasreddine doesn't know what he's doing.

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22 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

I just can't look at our D, see the young guys and I just feel they aren't taking the next step. You can't change the players. Change the coaching staff. Nasreddine doesn't know what he's doing.

Nasreddine will never get canned as long as Hynes is here. With a brand new season, Hynes will ruin this team yet again...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

I think I need the 10-11 comparisons thing explained to me before I judge it's applicability to this season. Is it just "big expectations turns to nightmare season?" If so, okay fine, easy, but fine. The idea that things could hit rock bottom isn't too farfetched but yeah, no matter how bad the Devils play, it's kind of silly to start declaring us in 10-11 situation after 1 and then 2 games. People aren't disagreeing with the potential of that happening but with the eagerness and earliness with which some are portending such.

No doubt, tonight was not a good look for Hynes and I've been critical of him constantly. He just had no answers, nothing creative to offer, and isn't the kind of coach that seems able to draw something up that protects the players from themselves a la Lemaire and the 10-11 Devils. But fire Hynes is a ridiculous premise right now because the season just started - a season that features a roster full of new and inexperienced players. This thread will look more and more competent if the sh!t play continues for a few more games, but that it was started after game 1 with the declaration of "coach's loss" will never really be fair.

It's that they blew the season/home opener in craptacular fashion after an offseason of optomism and big acquisitions, then got housed 7-2 on the road the next night in both seasons (yes the Caps Game #2 in 2010 was the exact same score)

Yeah it's only two games but they look BAD, MacLean level bad.  You lose 7-2 to the freaking Sabres that takes some doing.  Sometimes losses like Opening Night really provide a gut punch and prove to be a harbinger.  And yes I know the predictable response will be 4-0 last year, it's a lot harder to get out of a malaise than it is to level off after a winning streak though.

And funny how people were defending all the line juggling last night, where was it tonight when they were getting caved in?  Fix something when you're up 4-0 but stay the course when you're losing big early.  The staff outthinks itself trying to get cute, assuming they even think.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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I've been ringing "The Young D don't seem to be improving with this staff" consistently, and I don't understand why we give other teams so much space. 

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