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Fire Hynes


Daniel
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1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

Who’s talking about STH? I’m asking about casual fans that will go to a handful of games a year. Again, I’d guess most don’t know who our assistant GM is, and probably never noticed another guy behind the bench. 

The point is that your average team's revenues (including the Devils) are driven by season ticket holders, so if a GM is doing something for pubic consumption, he's really doing it for the season ticket holder who knows what's going on with the team. 

So yeah, it wouldn't shock me if the whole Fitzgerald thing was really a gambit to placate fans who spend a lot of money following the team (season ticket holders).

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3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The point is that your average team's revenues (including the Devils) are driven by season ticket holders, so if a GM is doing something for pubic consumption, he's really doing it for the season ticket holder who knows what's going on with the team. 

So yeah, it wouldn't shock me if the whole Fitzgerald thing was really a gambit to placate fans who spend a lot of money following the team (season ticket holders).

I agree in thining it is all a façade to placate fans, which is par for the course with the Devils this season.

First the fake goal song contest, then the Devils blaring about these great deals they are offering but only if you sign up on a special list, and now this.

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15 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Who’s talking about STH? I’m asking about casual fans that will go to a handful of games a year. Again, I’d guess most don’t know who our assistant GM is, and probably never noticed another guy behind the bench. 

STH always think “real fans” are STH. Meanwhile, half of them go to the games just to talk to each other, and barely even pay attention. I would assume that excludes those who are big enough fans to hang out on this message board.

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5 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I agree in thining it is all a façade to placate fans, which is par for the course with the Devils this season.

First the fake goal song contest, then the Devils blaring about these great deals they are offering but only if you sign up on a special list, and now this.

One of the downsides of having billionaire owners as opposed to a seat of you pants type like Vanderbeek.  Guys like Harris, Dan Snyder or the Johnson brothers are wealthy enough that they don't give a crap if anyone shows up to the games. 

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1 minute ago, Daniel said:

One of the downsides of having billionaire owners as opposed to a seat of you pants type like Vanderbeek.  Guys like Harris, Dan Snyder or the Johnson brothers are wealthy enough that they don't give a crap if anyone shows up to the games. 

I don't think it is really the owners themselves more than the corporate types like Scott O'Neill / Jake Reynolds who are driving this.  I would still take these guys over JVB any day as we are no longer a threat to move and these guys are not auctioning off crap they find in the far reaches of their storage rooms (remember those in the 11-12 season?).

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1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

I don't think it is really the owners themselves more than the corporate types like Scott O'Neill / Jake Reynolds who are driving this.  I would still take these guys over JVB any day as we are no longer a threat to move and these guys are not auctioning off crap they Afind in the far reaches of their storage rooms (remember those in the 11-12 season?).

There won't be the humiliation of having the team relocate.  But forever being a zombie franchise that is a consistent loser because ownership doesn't really care about wins and losses and is enthralled with a GM who after almost two decades of being a GM has shown that he has no idea how to build a team that is a consistent winner isn't great either. 

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Just now, Daniel said:

There won't be the humiliation of having the team relocate.  But forever being a zombie franchise that is a consistent loser because ownership doesn't really care about wins and losses and is enthralled with a GM who after almost two decades of being a GM has shown that he has no idea how to build a team that is a consistent winner isn't great either. 

I am not quite ready to say the owners won't ever fire Shero.  I mean I don't care what the official line was but I certainly believe they were the driving force at kicking Lou upstairs out of the GM seat before he quit 2 months later.

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37 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Who’s talking about STH? I’m asking about casual fans that will go to a handful of games a year. Again, I’d guess most don’t know who our assistant GM is, and probably never noticed another guy behind the bench. 

The majority of people who go to games (especially this year) are STH's though, or at least hardcore enough to give a **** about the day-in day-out workings of the team.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not quite ready to say the owners won't ever fire Shero.  I mean I don't care what the official line was but I certainly believe they were the driving force at kicking Lou upstairs out of the GM seat before he quit 2 months later.

The owners only fired Sam Hinkie because there were enough voices telling them to given that the 76ers have a much bigger following than the Devils.  And even then, what he was doing was not particularly difficult and his work was almost done at that point.  

When it comes to the Devils, Ray Shero's name will be mentioned on local sports talk radio less than five times a year, and there are grand total of two local beat writers who have less information about the team than guys who are based in Toronto and who otherwise write what the team tells them to write.  So from all indications, Harris and Blitzer will do what they want and feel they have no pressure from anyone to have the team win, which isn't necessarily untrue.  And it sure seems to me that they absolutely love Shero and believe he can do no wrong.

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34 minutes ago, JohnnyP. said:

These owners have totally bought into Shero's plan of the "rebuild" which is fine but they seem naive of any time frame it should be completed within 

Aren't the 76ers where the term Trust the Process began, started by their former GM

 

 

That's cause it's foolish to believe that it should 100% be completed within a specific time frame.

There's never any guarantee, you draft and trade for players you think will help the team but what they actually do is then out of your control as a GM, all you can do is look for progress and move towards your goal.

Obviously if its been 10 years and no improvement its a failure but this is not the case.

It also cannot be stated enough how in terrible shape the team was when Shero took over, we may not be getting the results we'd like on the ice right now but the roster and our prospect pipeline is undeniably miles ahead of what it was. We made big progress. 

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35 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

That's cause it's foolish to believe that it should 100% be completed within a specific time frame.

There's never any guarantee, you draft and trade for players you think will help the team but what they actually do is then out of your control as a GM, all you can do is look for progress and move towards your goal.

Obviously if its been 10 years and no improvement its a failure but this is not the case.

It also cannot be stated enough how in terrible shape the team was when Shero took over, we may not be getting the results we'd like on the ice right now but the roster and our prospect pipeline is undeniably miles ahead of what it was. We made big progress. 

That excuse only has a slightly longer shelf life than “Zacha is only xx years old.” Once Schneider and Zajac are gone this will pretty much be a team Shero himself built. And as others have pointed out his more recent trades haven’t been working out, and besides the Hughes, Nico’s, and Bratt’s, his drafting hasn’t exactly been much to speak of either..

*and for the record I like Shero a lot, and am not even remotely close to wanting him replaced. Just getting a little sick of hearing about how it’s still Lou’s fault all these years later. Lou’s team is actually good right now...

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6 hours ago, Nicomo said:

That excuse only has a slightly longer shelf life than “Zacha is only xx years old.” Once Schneider and Zajac are gone this will pretty much be a team Shero himself built. 

Yes, but it will be a team he molded out of sh!t assets. That’s why the excuse is more valid. The trades that he has made have been made, save for Larsson, without giving up much of anything.   

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9 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Yes, but it will be a team he molded out of sh!t assets. That’s why the excuse is more valid. The trades that he has made have been made, save for Larsson, without giving up much of anything.   

Well, in his most recent trade I’m not sure I’d agree 9 million a season for a pretty mediocre defenseman is not giving up much of anything. That deal looks like yet another one that isn’t going to work out. But at least he didn’t send anything good back in return. 

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Shero also got the benefit of TWO lotto wins, and a third #1 overall falling into his lap because of an incompetent GM.  And still we're getting pretty much the same results we did at the end of the Lou era on the verge of having to lose Hall and Vatanen starting rebuild 2.0, while Lou's proving now he was held back more by Conte at the end than anything else.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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15 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

STH always think “real fans” are STH. Meanwhile, half of them go to the games just to talk to each other, and barely even pay attention. I would assume that excludes those who are big enough fans to hang out on this message board.

I don't think this way and the STH's around me go to watch the games. Not sure how you can even determine that while being at a game either. 

Do some people? Sure but I think it's silly to say that most STH's aren't there to watch the game. I could think of tons of other things I could do for a lot less money if I just wanted to socialize with people. 

Edited by Satans Hockey
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1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Shero also got the benefit of TWO lotto wins, and a third #1 overall falling into his lap because of an incompetent GM.  And still we're getting pretty much the same results we did at the end of the Lou era on the verge of having to lose Hall and Vatanen starting rebuild 2.0, while Lou's proving now he was held back more by Conte at the end than anything else.

Yeah, that's what's most troubling to me.  Lou's team faltered a bit at the end because we were so good for so long, that your assets and ability to make things happen gets more and more difficult to the point where you're almost out of options.  Because of those teams that faltered, Shero inherited two #1 overall picks like you mentioned, and although those guys are still very young, it's not like he will really deserve credit for anything that they have or will accomplish.  I'm not ready to put a bullseye on Shero's head and give him the boot yet, but we're at the point where you start to evaluate his work and look at how things have transpired.

Also, for the record, I disagree with SD's notion that rebuilds don't or shouldn't have any expected timeframe to pan out.  You have to at least have some semblance of a timeline.  Granted it could be flexible and change, but to not have any expectations for when you're going to turn around a crappy club is really just not having any sort of plan whatsoever.  You can't just wing it and constantly say "Oh it takes time, let's not put a clock on this".  You do that, enough time passes, and before you know it you're the Toronto Maple Leafs going on 50 years without a Cup and enduring rebuild after rebuild in what seems like an endless cycle.

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8 hours ago, Nicomo said:

That excuse only has a slightly longer shelf life than “Zacha is only xx years old.” Once Schneider and Zajac are gone this will pretty much be a team Shero himself built. And as others have pointed out his more recent trades haven’t been working out, and besides the Hughes, Nico’s, and Bratt’s, his drafting hasn’t exactly been much to speak of either..

*and for the record I like Shero a lot, and am not even remotely close to wanting him replaced. Just getting a little sick of hearing about how it’s still Lou’s fault all these years later. Lou’s team is actually good right now...

With you on the bolded, and the general gist of this post.

Really hoping we can add Blackwood to the "picks that worked out list" in time. 

I touched on this in another post, but the PK and Gusev moves have put Shero at a sudden crossroads.  Many of us were willing to wait for Shero to spend his money wisely (and I think re-signing Hischier qualifies).  But if the wait was for a potentially shell-of-himself PK and a former KHLer who never pans out, that's not going sit well with too many fans (I'm definitely more hopeful with Gusev than PK). 

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We made the playoffs 2 seasons ago, we now have actual prospects that could play in the NHL and we have a young talented roster with most players under 30 years old. 

All of that in 4-5 years. To say the rebuild is a failure is just ridiculous. We were lucky to win the lottery twice, that also helped us get better faster. We made GIANT bounds compared to what most teams could have done in the same time frame yet nobody's happy

For most people here their worst enemy is their own expectations 

i mean. if you subscribe that it's all Hynes fault and that we should win more with the roster we have... then why sh!t on the rebuild? All a GM can do is build a roster and we were all veeeeeeeerrrry excited with the roster before the season started, on paper its good enough. If its not geling and working 100% now that's another problem

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18 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

We made the playoffs 2 seasons ago, we now have actual prospects that could play in the NHL and we have a young talented roster with most players under 30 years old. 

All of that in 4-5 years. To say the rebuild is a failure is just ridiculous. We were lucky to win the lottery twice, that also helped us get better faster. We made GIANT bounds compared to what most teams could have done in the same time frame yet nobody's happy

For most people here their worst enemy is their own expectations 

i mean. if you subscribe that it's all Hynes fault and that we should win more with the roster we have... then why sh!t on the rebuild? All a GM can do is build a roster and we were all veeeeeeeerrrry excited with the roster before the season started, on paper its good enough. If its not geling and working 100% now that's another problem

Fair points, and I personally am not sh!tting on the rebuild, which is why in my earlier post I said that I'm not calling for Shero's head (yet).  I stand by my belief that you need to have at least some sort of rough timeframe for any given rebuild to pan out, but to your point, I don't think we're there yet.  I agree that we've made changes and things *should* be better than they were 4-5 seasons ago, but there are still some big question marks, and I think we're essentially at the point where you start to judge and evaluate those moves.

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1 hour ago, Satans Hockey said:

I don't think this way and the STH's around me go to watch the games. Not sure how you can even determine that while being at a game either. 

Do some people? Sure but I think it's silly to say that most STH's aren't there to watch the game. I could think of tons of other things I could do for a lot less money if I just wanted to socialize with people. 

I didn’t say most, I said half, and specifically excluded people dedicated enough to also post on this message board. 

You can determine that by watching STH’s stand with their back to the game or around the concourse instead of watching the game. I’ve noticed it at every game I’ve been to in the past 5 years. 

Which granted, isn’t as many as some because I’m not a STH. 

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16 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

We made the playoffs 2 seasons ago, we now have actual prospects that could play in the NHL and we have a young talented roster with most players under 30 years old. 

All of that in 4-5 years. To say the rebuild is a failure is just ridiculous. We were lucky to win the lottery twice, that also helped us get better faster. We made GIANT bounds compared to what most teams could have done in the same time frame yet nobody's happy

For most people here their worst enemy is their own expectations 

i mean. if you subscribe that it's all Hynes fault and that we should win more with the roster we have... then why sh!t on the rebuild? All a GM can do is build a roster and we were all veeeeeeeerrrry excited with the roster before the season started, on paper its good enough. If its not geling and working 100% now that's another problem

If you're referring to my post, I didn't call this a failure...like I said, I'm still on-board with Shero.  But I do think he's at a bit of a crossroads right now.  PK looks like a disaster so far, and that was clearly supposed to be a big-time "Now we're moving forward" splash kind of move.  And he's had some other deals not pay off as well...I feel for Shero in that I think moves like MoJo and Mueller were very reasonable ones to make at the time. 

The jury is out on his collection of young talent too...no one is wowing at Bingo right now...if you want to give them all incompletes, I would agree, it's too early to say that none of them will pan out, but it's hard to be thrilled with the returns to date.  Really hope Ty Smith is ready for next season. 

I'm still on Team Shero, and I think he's definitely been a little unlucky with some of his personnel moves as of late (but VERY lucky with getting to draft first overall twice)...but I think there's some reason for concern. 

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24 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I didn’t say most, I said half, and specifically excluded people dedicated enough to also post on this message board. 

You can determine that by watching STH’s stand with their back to the game or around the concourse instead of watching the game. I’ve noticed it at every game I’ve been to in the past 5 years. 

Which granted, isn’t as many as some because I’m not a STH. 

To be fair there are some STH’s who do other things at the game mainly because the team usually sucked over the last five years.

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20 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I didn’t say most, I said half, and specifically excluded people dedicated enough to also post on this message board. 

You can determine that by watching STH’s stand with their back to the game or around the concourse instead of watching the game. I’ve noticed it at every game I’ve been to in the past 5 years. 

Which granted, isn’t as many as some because I’m not a STH. 

I think half is still a huge over estimate, I just don't buy that many people aren't watching the game. There's no way you can even determine just by looking at me that I'm a STH holder because I don't wear a stupid lanyard, none of the STH around me that I know wear them either. 

There's always going to be people that are there just to socialize but I just don't think it's half the amount of STH the team has. 

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