2020 NHL Draft Thread: Devils: #7 Holtz!

[MadDog2020]

Check out NJDevs with the fancy new layout! 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

29 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

To be fair, Lou asked Jamie to waive his NTC and Jamie says he said no and was kind of miffed about it because they waited until September to ask him when his kids just went back to school and everything. Nothing else is really said about how Lou or the Org felt about it.

The whole debacle with the captain thing and being benched, on the surface, appears to be the rift between Jamie and Lemaire and doesn't involve Lou...but this is just surface level. Who knows for sure. Lemaire and Lou always were good ole boys.

What I wrote is misleading (the part you quoted)...I wasn’t trying to imply that Lou was necessarily trying to screw with Langs for the sake of it...I was more speaking generally, in that these non-universal appeal types who succeed (sometimes almost in spite of themselves) can have a tough time once they start turning on the guys who support them almost unconditionally.  But it wouldn’t surprise me much if Langs considered Lou and Lemaire as being on the same page, and was miffed with both of them at the end.

[HellOnICE]

Brendan Morrisson is on 31 Thoughts Extra Podcast this week too - tells his Lou story on what happened with him too.

[SterioDesign]

the cancel culture was done with Ellen Degeneres.. now they are coming for Lou lol The floodgate is open... everyone will come out with their own stories now that a few did it

Edited August 20, 2020 by SterioDesign

[jagknife]

7 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

the cancel culture was done with Ellen Degeneres.. now they are coming for Lou lol The floodgate is open... everyone will come out with their own stories now that a few did it

I know you were saying cancel culture in jest, but a lot of the people openly talking about their careers are guys out of the game, playing wise, and are willing to burn a GM bridge. Plus modern day platforms (podcasts, interviews, etc.) now give more people that platform to say, “That guy? Yeah fvck him, he’s a dick. He’s my story.”

Hell Scott Stevens was on Cam & Strick a few weeks ago (yes, I’m pretty behind) and he talked about how he got here, dragged his feet to do so and still signed an offersheet with the Blues, all to challenge Lou.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, jagknife said:

I know you were saying cancel culture in jest, but a lot of the people openly talking about their careers are guys out of the game, playing wise, and are willing to burn a GM bridge. Plus modern day platforms (podcasts, interviews, etc.) now give more people that platform to say, “That guy? Yeah fvck him, he’s a dick. He’s my story.”

Hell Scott Stevens was on Cam & Strick a few weeks ago (yes, I’m pretty behind) and he talked about how he got here, dragged his feet to do so and still signed an offersheet with the Blues, all to challenge Lou.

Goes the other way too...Neil Smith was the speaker at a jersey expo that DM84 attended (think DM84 showed a chunk of his collection while there), and Smith was VERY open about a lot of things, re:  his career as a GM...especially with how he couldn't stand Mike Keenan.  So yeah, when there's a little less to lose, sometimes guys will be far more open about certain events or behind-the-scenes happenings after the fact.

The funny thing re:  Lou is nothing that comes out about him is going to shock me much.  Like I said previously, did anyone think he was this consistently warm-and-fuzzy guy?  He definitely gained a softer spot for certain players for sure (that would develop over time), but quite clearly that wasn't who he was with everyone.  I'm sure he had a way of alienating some players and making others feel both underpaid and underappreciated.  And whenever he had the leverage, he would definitely use it to the fullest, sometimes not budging even a little.  

Stevens has been talked about before, but I could definitely understand why he wouldn't have wanted to come here initially...he had just built his dream home in St. Louis and the last thing that he was expecting was to be forced to move on after just one year with the Blues.  The Blues definitely dragged their feet in coming up with a fair compensation offer initially, but Rod Brind'Amour and Curtis Joseph couldn't be categorized as the Blues trying to pull a fast one...yeah, Brind'Amour's sophomore campaign had been disappointing and there were questions about his work ethic, and Joseph's potential durability (rather ironic, given how his career played out) was also considered an issue at the time, but they were clearly guys who had considerable upside.  If the arbitrator had awarded that package to the Devils over Stevens, it couldn't have been called a travesty by any stretch...I'm sure to both the Blues AND Stevens, they both thinking "What in actual fvck?!" when it was Stevens who became the compensation award.

It obviously all worked out for Scott in the end (3 Cups and forever remembered as Devils royalty will do that), but I think there was a part of him that always missed the Blues...to go full SD, the Blues were like that girlfriend that you had a great relationship with for about a year, no arguments, so many things in common, every moment is just so damned fun, and you can see yourselves getting married someday, easily...but then out of nowhere she gets transferred to a new city far way, and you are simply unable to pack up your life and follow her, so even though there's no issues in your relationship at all, you're painfully forced to break up.  You then get involved with someone else (probably too soon), and at first it's much more of a struggle...it's not all bad, but it's not as effortless and seamless and as easy and simple as it was with the girl you were forced to lose.  Yet somehow over time things get a little better, then a little more so, and you begin to better understand each other, with mutual respect building along the way...and suddenly, you look back and you've got three great kids and though you don't always see eye-to-eye with the woman who eventually became your wife, somehow you've been able to overcome the bad times and forge a solid relationship that works well, almost in spite of itself.

BUT, you can't help but wonder at times what life might have been like with the Girl Who Had to Leave.  I think the Blues were always that to Stevens, his "What if?"  Maybe even now, on some level.  It wouldn't even surprise me much if Stevens someday admitted that a part of him was hoping that Lou wouldn't match the offer sheet at the time. 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[SterioDesign]

On 8/19/2020 at 5:27 PM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Without getting into the usual debate, what I think you often miss SD is that people have been long aware that Lou wasn't always the fairest or nicest GM in the world, and could be an outright d!ck at times.  Just because some people have defended him in the past (and still might) doesn't mean they inhale Kool-Aid through a funnel and assume Lou couldn't possibly have ever made any mistakes...but being a GM is never a 100% success rate kind of business, and in spite of everything, his teams enjoyed success for a long long time.  We've already discussed to death what caused the Devils decline and eventual bottom-out of his era...some of it was inevitable, some of it was out of his control, but some of it was definitely self-inflicted.  No one disputes that he shoulders his own chunk of the blame.

But the reason I'm posting is to respond to your Steve Jobs point, and to piggyback off it...in some ways, I'd say that Lou reminds me a bit of former Mets manager Bobby Valentine, and famous director James Cameron.  They're all very smart in their own ways, and at times guilty of thinking they're smarter than everyone else.  Part of their success is rooted in having "disciples" who will follow them to the ends of the Earth, no matter what...Bobby V had players that he believed heavily in that rewarded him for that loyalty (that others didn't see having the same value), and Cameron had his share of actors that "got" him and could handle how incredibly tough he could be on them.  Lou had those guys too (Lemaire and Robinson as coaches, not to mention several players).  

Of course, what can start to happen with guys like that is as their disciples age and are moving on to other ventures or have simply had enough (think Brady with Belichick), there's a bit of "what now?"  It's similar to running low on prospects...suddenly replacements aren't necessarily there from outside that will be so willing to deal with your more prickly character traits, or have the thicker skin required to deal with you.  I don't think it was any coincidence that Lou had to go to the "former Devils" well a bit too often as the years went on...or had to keep guys that other teams might have moved on from earlier (even if there would have been an outcry initially).  

The big question is would a kinder, gentler, softer Lou had a better chance of sticking around here, had he been willing to change?  Some guys have definitely managed to pull that off, to great success...see Tom Coughlin with the Giants.  Even though I'm no Terry Collins fan, he went from being a guy no one could stand in his first two major-league managerial stints to a guy who was very much beloved by his third team (the Mets).  It really did feel like things ran their course here with Lou though, and it was simply time for a change, after so many years.  I don't follow the Islanders closely enough to know if he's mellowed noticeably, or drastically changed in other ways.  Could be that HE needed a fresh start as much as the Devils did, really.

And the worst thing these guys can do is turn on their disciples for what seem like odd reasons.  I’m sure Langs was probably flat-out hurt by the way he was treated at the end, after feeling like he had fully bought into Lou’s way and had been every bit the good soldier.  Like sundstrom alluded to, it feels like sometimes these guys will fvck with certain people for reasons that make sense only to them.  

With all due respect, that's probably how you remember it but that's just not the case lol

I was the ONE poster here who would dare say that Lou's ways were incredibly flawed and would bite us in the ass solid. YEARS before Parise left i was calling it already. 

I'm the one who had to reply to a dozen replies and attacks every. single. time. I'd mention something about Lou. Then  more people would reply to my replies and this board would constantly be SD vs NJDEVS cause i was basically the only one with that opinion. Again, even before it got really heated once we lost Parise. I remember very very very clearly how saying anything negative was basically like standing up at church and cursing jesus or God. Trust me the kool-aid was flowing hard and there was not a single soul here on my side. The narrative was truly that he could almost do no wrong, wtv way Lou was doing things, thats how it had to be done to the fans, no matter if it was logical or not.

So If someone would notice people coming around about it, it's me and it's only in recent years that some posters are actually pointing out some of his flaws. You really wouldn't see it when he was still here. Hell even Elias calling him out on exactly what i've been saying for years wasn't enough for people to admit. 

[SterioDesign]

Well we're getting pick 18 at least, could be 17 if MTL win their series. 

[Devilsfan118]

So, with the relevant series over in the first round.. we're currently looking at #7, #18, and somewhere between 24 and 31.

Vancouver going deep sucks, for us.  Their pick is quickly becoming pretty worthless.  Well, not worthless but I would've loved having two picks in the teens.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Devilsfan118

[SterioDesign]

47 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

So, with the relevant series over in the first round.. we're currently looking at #7, #18, and somewhere between 24 and 31.

Vancouver going deep sucks, for us.  Their pick is quickly becoming pretty worthless.  Well, not worthless but I would've loved having two picks in the teens.

yeahh but at least we get those 2 picks. it's a deep draft and we need talent now so the other scenario had them missing the playoffs and us only getting a 2021 pick... their team is getting better so it would likely be a similar pick but next year... so with all of that in mind... it could have been worst i guess.

Pastrnak was a #25 pick so let's hope we can get one like him there lol

[Nicomo]

Not only Pasta, Boeser was 23, Konecny 24...

If this draft is really one of the deepest in years there should be good players all throughout the 1st round. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Nicomo

[SterioDesign]

the rangers were able to land Trouba for a 20th pick + a prospect. Maybe we'll be in a position to pull that off

[Nicomo]

2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

the rangers were able to land Trouba for a 20th pick + a prospect. Maybe we'll be in a position to pull that off

Teams don’t bend over backwards to help the Devils like they do the Rags. 

[MadDog2020]

46 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

the rangers were able to land Trouba for a 20th pick + a prospect. Maybe we'll be in a position to pull that off

Trouba also demanded to be traded to the Rangers, and only the Rangers. 

[SterioDesign]

20 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Trouba also demanded to be traded to the Rangers, and only the Rangers. 

well my point is simply that it's possible to get a decent player for a late first and a prospect lol 

edit: wait, did he really? I'm not sure if i remember that? He did ask to be traded but i'm pretty sure the Jets picked the Rangers in order to get back their pick? 

Cause how can we forget Daniel's meltdown about us not matching that offer.

Edited August 22, 2020 by SterioDesign

[MadDog2020]

41 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

well my point is simply that it's possible to get a decent player for a late first and a prospect lol 

edit: wait, did he really? I'm not sure if i remember that? He did ask to be traded but i'm pretty sure the Jets picked the Rangers in order to get back their pick? 

Cause how can we forget Daniel's meltdown about us not matching that offer.

If memory serves, Trouba demanded the Rags. Part of it was his girlfriend is attending medical school in NYC.

Edited August 22, 2020 by MadDog2020

[jagknife]

7 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

If memory serves, Trouba demanded the Rags. Part of it was his girlfriend is attending medical school in NYC.

My memory's hazy but if he didn't outright demand NYR, he definitely had some kind of demand that said the States cause of the aforementioned fiance.

We could always package picks to a cap strapped team before someone else beats us to the punch.

[NJDevils1214]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

If memory serves, Trouba demanded the Rags. Part of it was his girlfriend is attending medical school in NYC.

Also, Pionk wasn't really a prospect anymore. At the time he was traded he was a minus D-man who put up 15-20 points a year. He actually had a pretty great year with WPG this year putting up 45 points and sporting a +10. Amazing what happens when you leave the urinal across the river.

EDIT: I'm not sure if him being a minus D-man vs a prospect supports SD's point or not. Maybe WPG saw something more in Pionk than what met the eye, but I doubt NJ has anything like that to offer.

Edited August 22, 2020 by NJDevils1214

[SterioDesign]

39 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Also, Pionk wasn't really a prospect anymore. At the time he was traded he was a minus D-man who put up 15-20 points a year. He actually had a pretty great year with WPG this year putting up 45 points and sporting a +10. Amazing what happens when you leave the urinal across the river.

EDIT: I'm not sure if him being a minus D-man vs a prospect supports SD's point or not. Maybe WPG saw something more in Pionk than what met the eye, but I doubt NJ has anything like that to offer.

my point was literally just "we may be able to package that late first with something else to get something good in return"

That's about it

[Devilsfan118]

42 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

my point was literally just "we may be able to package that late first with something else to get something good in return"

BAH GAWD THAT'S MARNER'S MUSIC

/s

[NJDevils1214]

12 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

BAH GAWD THAT'S MARNER'S MUSIC

/s

[Chuck the Duck]

On 8/22/2020 at 8:46 PM, Devilsfan118 said:

BAH GAWD THAT'S MARNER'S MUSIC

/s

Hell yeah!!!!

[MadDog2020]

Draft scheduled for 10/6-10/7: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/2020-nhl-draft-rescheduled-oct-6-7/

[Guadana]

59 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Draft scheduled for 10/6-10/7: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/2020-nhl-draft-rescheduled-oct-6-7/

What's the good news. My hands are already shaking.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

Draft scheduled for 10/6-10/7: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/2020-nhl-draft-rescheduled-oct-6-7/

They should've held a 3rd lottery to determine when the draft would be, followed by a 4th lottery to determine whether its live or virtual, and then if live, a 5th lottery to determine the city where it would be held followed by a 6th lottery to determine the venue.  

It also bears noting that should you believe in omens, good or bad, the draft is on my birthday. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by mfitz804