NJDfan1711 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 54 minutes ago, HellOnICE said: Also, and I've said this previously, aside from Marian Hossa and Zdeno Chara (oddly enough both Slovak and 10 years or more years ago), when was the last-time a mega free agent changed teams, became their highest-ish paid player, and won a Cup? True, it might seldom work or result in an immediate or near-term Cup, but I still don't think that would/will stop GMs from potentially trying it. If you're trying to win a drag race, you're going to look at a Lamborghini and pay top dollar for it. You might not come in first, but it's still likely your best chance at winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: True, it might seldom work or result in an immediate or near-term Cup, but I still don't think that would/will stop GMs from potentially trying it. If you're trying to win a drag race, you're going to look at a Lamborghini and pay top dollar for it. You might not come in first, but it's still likely your best chance at winning. I disagree. This isn't a Cap-Free world, maybe pre-cap sure - but this isn't "hey let's throw 5M at this guy" - you're talking about paying top dollar for a core player, which brings me back to my original point - which is what "Hall wants to win a Cup now" team can afford this kind of contract for 7 or 8 seasons at a big big number. Teams that are "win now" have those core players. Especially on wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I’m starting to understand Shero’s loyalty to Hynes a little better. Hynes coached garbage AHL quality teams for most of his time in NJ and now that he finally has a somewhat talented team doesn’t he deserve a little slack after having nothing to work with? The question is how long? Losing Hall would almost guarantee this team will be bad again at least next season. But it seems keeping Hynes almost guarantees losing Hall because this team just isn’t responding. So should we expect to lose Hall this season and see Hynes start the year next season? Personally I believe that’s what’s going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jerzey said: I’m starting to understand Shero’s loyalty to Hynes a little better. Hynes coached garbage AHL quality teams for most of his time in NJ and now that he finally has a somewhat talented team doesn’t he deserve a little slack after having nothing to work with? The question is how long? Losing Hall would almost guarantee this team will be bad again at least next season. But it seems keeping Hynes almost guarantees losing Hall because this team just isn’t responding. So should we expect to lose Hall this season and see Hynes start the year next season? Personally I believe that’s what’s going to happen. He should have had a shorter leash than Babcock, in my honest opinion. This roster is far too talented on paper, performance or not, to be jockeying at the bottom of the league again. He's done more with less, and now that he has actual talent, he isn't getting them to perform to their abilities. The fact he's also the 5th longest tenured coach out there, with only one playoff appearance, bothers me a little. Yes, I know he's had jack to work with, and through no fault of his own, but this acceptance of mediocracy the organization seems to have currently is flat out unacceptable. I'd love to be able to pick Shero's brain for just a half hour and try to understand the method to his madness cause it is driving me insane to see the team that had so much promise be so damn streaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazer Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) so is this a rift between player and coach or do they get along or did they have a falling out. hard to say, but if that is the case then the coach goes first. edit: in other words, blow it up, hynes is not the talent. Edited November 21, 2019 by lazer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, jagknife said: He should have had a shorter leash than Babcock, in my honest opinion. This roster is far too talented on paper, performance or not, to be jockeying at the bottom of the league again. He's done more with less, and now that he has actual talent, he isn't getting them to perform to their abilities. The fact he's also the 5th longest tenured coach out there, with only one playoff appearance, bothers me a little. Yes, I know he's had jack to work with, and through no fault of his own, but this acceptance of mediocracy the organization seems to have currently is flat out unacceptable. I'd love to be able to pick Shero's brain for just a half hour and try to understand the method to his madness cause it is driving me insane to see the team that had so much promise be so damn streaky. I don't think it's acceptance of mediocrity, it's reality. We're in a rebuild, starting from a way worse place than even a Rangers did. We had ZERO assets. I haven't really minded the leash until now, because I don't think the team is this bad. I'm not so sure losing Hall would be the end of the world, especially if it's for a good return in a trade and where else that money went to. I mean the Islanders had a decent rebound after Tavares, I think the situations could be similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagknife Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, HellOnICE said: I don't think it's acceptance of mediocrity, it's reality. We're in a rebuild, starting from a way worse place than even a Rangers did. We had ZERO assets. I haven't really minded the leash until now, because I don't think the team is this bad. I'm not so sure losing Hall would be the end of the world, especially if it's for a good return in a trade and where else that money went to. I mean the Islanders had a decent rebound after Tavares, I think the situations could be similar. I firmly believe the biggest x-factor in the Isles maintaining and then excelling after JT was hiring Trotz. He gets the most from what he has. Yes they had a good core as well, but is their core really that much better than ours? I do not believe Hynes is that answer. Edited November 21, 2019 by jagknife 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 How about this.. Hall gets traded and the Devils bring in some assets, maybe a decent roster player. Then after he goes on to win his Stanley Cup, he signs an $85 million deal with the Devils! Taylor gets his playoff wishes out of his system for the time being and his mega contract, the team gets some trade return, a high draft pick, and another year of experience for the kids. It's win-freaking-win, baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, jagknife said: He should have had a shorter leash than Babcock, in my honest opinion. This roster is far too talented on paper, performance or not, to be jockeying at the bottom of the league again. He's done more with less, and now that he has actual talent, he isn't getting them to perform to their abilities. The fact he's also the 5th longest tenured coach out there, with only one playoff appearance, bothers me a little. Yes, I know he's had jack to work with, and through no fault of his own, but this acceptance of mediocracy the organization seems to have currently is flat out unacceptable. I'd love to be able to pick Shero's brain for just a half hour and try to understand the method to his madness cause it is driving me insane to see the team that had so much promise be so damn streaky. 1 hour ago, MB3 said: You’re overestimating how long a reasonable leash is for an NHL head coach. I’m just trying to empathize with Ray to try to see where he’s coming from. I think it’s that kind of loyalty that gets him in trouble though. I think you’re both right though and Hynes should not be getting this long of a leash especially in this important season that we were supposed to be proving to Hall and everyone else that we are going to be competitive going forward. We obviously already failed at that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, jagknife said: I firmly believe the biggest x-factor in the Isles maintaining and then excelling after JT was hiring Trotz. He gets the most from what he has. Yes they had a good core as well, but is their core really that much better than ours? I do not believe Hynes is that answer. I think we're somewhat in agreement there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 43 minutes ago, MB3 said: I don’t think there’s a competitive person in sports that will win a championship and then say “this was fun but you know what would be more fun? Going back to a terrible fvckin hockey team that’s going nowhere, where the fans and I got into fights.” We don't know how Taylor feels. Is there a situation where I see Taylor look at this team, maybe a new coach, gets traded brings back assets, he could very well join a team that loses in the first round - gets to free agency - looks around, sees what deals are on the table and decides to come back. It's certainly unusual, but it's not crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, MB3 said: I don’t think there’s a competitive person in sports that will win a championship and then say “this was fun but you know what would be more fun? Going back to a terrible fvckin hockey team that’s going nowhere, where the fans and I got into fights.” I agree, but I think that one incident with the booing isn’t exactly a history of a bad relationship with the fans. You’re over dramatizing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MB3 said: I don’t think there’s a competitive person in sports that will win a championship and then say “this was fun but you know what would be more fun? Going back to a terrible fvckin hockey team that’s going nowhere, where the fans and I got into fights.” Yeah well you obviously haven't been in my fantasy world then, have you? EDIT: Lemme know if you want to though. Edited November 21, 2019 by Crisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 hours ago, jagknife said: I firmly believe the biggest x-factor in the Isles maintaining and then excelling after JT was hiring Trotz. He gets the most from what he has. Yes they had a good core as well, but is their core really that much better than ours? I do not believe Hynes is that answer. Trotz is the main reason that team has been successful. That roster ain’t that impressive. And they still aren’t winning anything significant with Thomas Greiss in net come Spring. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEWHistory Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/20/2019 at 6:14 PM, Daniel said: Per my post in the Babcock thread, there have been some bluecheck rumblings that Babcock saw this coming and had sent out feelers to other teams over the past couple of days. So there’s a small chance that Babcock’s availability is what has taken Ray so long to fire Hynes. So if Babcock is going to be our new coach sooner rather than later, I see if he can turn around the team’s fortunes with Hall. In the meantime, I only ask for a ridiculous overpay: Caufield from Montreal, Byram from Colorado, or Gaudreau from Calgary. We can always get the B prospect and first round pick package closer to the trade deadline. Whoa, isn’t that some sort of violation of NHL labor policy if Babcock did this while still coach? Or am I misunderstanding your point? A team contacting a player under contract would be clear tampering, but aren’t the same rules essentially in force for coaches? After all, it isn’t like players can conduct their own search for trades while under contract unless given explicit permission to do so (at least in most leagues.... can’t keep track of all these different policies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, AEWHistory said: Whoa, isn’t that some sort of violation of NHL labor policy if Babcock did this while still coach? Or am I misunderstanding your point? A team contacting a player under contract would be clear tampering, but aren’t the same rules essentially in force for coaches? After all, it isn’t like players can conduct their own search for trades while under contract unless given explicit permission to do so (at least in most leagues.... can’t keep track of all these different policies). The coaches aren’t governed by the CBA, but obviously you can’t tamper when someone is under contract and definitely someone who is still coaching. Still I imagine there are grey areas, like Babcock’s agent getting a sense of whether certain teams are likely to fire their coach at some point during the season and the type of replacement they’d be looking for. Anyway, it was just a rumor, although plausible so far as they go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 18 hours ago, jagknife said: I firmly believe the biggest x-factor in the Isles maintaining and then excelling after JT was hiring Trotz. He gets the most from what he has. Yes they had a good core as well, but is their core really that much better than ours? I do not believe Hynes is that answer. I was invited to the isles-penguins game last night by a friend and I was really impressed with how confident the Islanders are as a team. The excitement and energy in the building was evident too. I felt bummed knowing how weak the our team is compared to that. One organization is in the toilet, the other....riding high with talent, confidence and enthusiasm. It was very depressing to be there as a Devils fan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 15 hours ago, MadDog2020 said: Trotz is the main reason that team has been successful. That roster ain’t that impressive. And they still aren’t winning anything significant with Thomas Greiss in net come Spring. They’ve impressed me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: They’ve impressed me... Me too. I havent seen a Devils team playing that confidently in a very, very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: They’ve impressed me... Switch Hynes and Trotz and see what happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Switch Hynes and Trotz and see what happens. Obviously, the trade is one for one. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJD67 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Owner needs to fire fire Shiro and Hynes.They are in cahoots and will destroy the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEWHistory Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 23 hours ago, Daniel said: The coaches aren’t governed by the CBA, but obviously you can’t tamper when someone is under contract and definitely someone who is still coaching. Still I imagine there are grey areas, like Babcock’s agent getting a sense of whether certain teams are likely to fire their coach at some point during the season and the type of replacement they’d be looking for. Anyway, it was just a rumor, although plausible so far as they go. Cool, thanks for the feedback Daniel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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