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Hall or Hynes, who is gone first?


Hall or Hynes: Who is gone first?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is gone first

    • Hall
      35
    • Hynes
      13


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1 minute ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Fair points, and I agree with most of them.  Not saying it would be the easiest thing to do, but depending on the GM and how much they're able to handle/tolerate difficult situations, I think they might be OK with being tightly pressed for cap space year after year, assuming they're always in contention and getting playoff berth after playoff berth.  It makes them look good that they're able to assembly a talented roster and be competitive, and if it doesn't work out, eventually owners give them the axe, and you'd think they'd have a hard time finding work after putting their teams in a tight spot, but that doesn't really seem to be the case.  Just look at our former GM - granted Lou got us 3 Cups and was a great GM here for a long time, but eventually he made some decisions towards the end of his tenure here that were less than ideal, and it resulted in us not having much cap room, and worse, having even less talent, yet he was seemingly able to get not one, but TWO jobs right after, and he's now enjoying the #2 overall spot in the standings.  While I'm sure he will always love the Devils and our organization, I'd have to bet he doesn't give a sh!t about any of the times he may have been up against the cap and struggling to bring in high-dollar players.

Yzerman is another great example - dude was bringing in people left and right, dolling out crazy high contract after crazy high contract and everyone was wondering how they were going to keep it up - well, he's no longer with them (yes, I realize he left on his own accord, but he still put them in a tough spot) - and he got a job right away, not having to worry about the mess he made with his former organization.  It's almost like some of these guys get a free pass, which is sort of amazing.  So I mean, why not go for the gusto?  Ideally it brings you a Cup or two, and if it does, guys will likely want to stick around your organization for cheaper and take hometown discounts, and if it doesn't, well like I said you might get a pink slip, but judging by recent history you may get another job pretty quickly. 🤷‍♂️

Yzerman did it, but it's one thing to create room for guys who are already on the team like a Kucherov or Stamkos. The only person was McD he brought in, and he wasn't going to be making 9M. I can't see Hall coming in to Tampa, and making more than Stamkos? Do we? And yes, Tampa's much better than we are, but the standings today? oooooof. 

I think there's few teams who want to pay Taylor the kind of money his agent wants him to be making. And maybe I'm wrong, and he's not looking for a Tavares like deal, but something in the 9M range, which makes him more affordable. Also, and I've said this previously, aside from Marian Hossa and Zdeno Chara (oddly enough both Slovak and 10 years or more years ago), when was the last-time a mega free agent changed teams, became their highest-ish paid player, and won a Cup?

 

 

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Obviously, the trade is one for one. 

His value goes down the closer you get to the trade deadline. The only way it goes up is if there is a bidding war. Teams will pay more to have him for 4 months + playoffs than to have him for 2.5 or

Between this and Babcock being available, there couldn’t be any larger writing on the wall. 

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54 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

 Also, and I've said this previously, aside from Marian Hossa and Zdeno Chara (oddly enough both Slovak and 10 years or more years ago), when was the last-time a mega free agent changed teams, became their highest-ish paid player, and won a Cup?

 

 

True, it might seldom work or result in an immediate or near-term Cup, but I still don't think that would/will stop GMs from potentially trying it.  If you're trying to win a drag race, you're going to look at a Lamborghini and pay top dollar for it.  You might not come in first, but it's still likely your best chance at winning.

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24 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

True, it might seldom work or result in an immediate or near-term Cup, but I still don't think that would/will stop GMs from potentially trying it.  If you're trying to win a drag race, you're going to look at a Lamborghini and pay top dollar for it.  You might not come in first, but it's still likely your best chance at winning.

I disagree. This isn't a Cap-Free world, maybe pre-cap sure - but this isn't "hey let's throw 5M at this guy" - you're talking about paying top dollar for a core player, which brings me back to my original point - which is what "Hall wants to win a Cup now" team can afford this kind of contract for  7 or 8 seasons at a big big number. Teams that are "win now" have those core players. Especially on wing. 

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I’m starting to understand Shero’s loyalty to Hynes a little better. Hynes coached garbage AHL quality teams for most of his time in NJ and now that he finally has a somewhat talented team doesn’t he deserve a little slack after having nothing to work with?

The question is how long? Losing Hall would almost guarantee this team will be bad again at least next season. But it seems keeping Hynes almost guarantees losing Hall because this team just isn’t responding. 

So should we expect to lose Hall this season and see Hynes start the year next season? Personally I believe that’s what’s going to happen. 

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8 minutes ago, Jerzey said:

I’m starting to understand Shero’s loyalty to Hynes a little better. Hynes coached garbage AHL quality teams for most of his time in NJ and now that he finally has a somewhat talented team doesn’t he deserve a little slack after having nothing to work with?

The question is how long? Losing Hall would almost guarantee this team will be bad again at least next season. But it seems keeping Hynes almost guarantees losing Hall because this team just isn’t responding. 

So should we expect to lose Hall this season and see Hynes start the year next season? Personally I believe that’s what’s going to happen. 

He should have had a shorter leash than Babcock, in my honest opinion. This roster is far too talented on paper, performance or not, to be jockeying at the bottom of the league again. He's done more with less, and now that he has actual talent, he isn't getting them to perform to their abilities.

The fact he's also the 5th longest tenured coach out there, with only one playoff appearance, bothers me a little. Yes, I know he's had jack to work with, and through no fault of his own, but this acceptance of mediocracy the organization seems to have currently is flat out unacceptable.

I'd love to be able to pick Shero's brain for just a half hour and try to understand the method to his madness cause it is driving me insane to see the team that had so much promise be so damn streaky.

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12 minutes ago, Jerzey said:

I’m starting to understand Shero’s loyalty to Hynes a little better. Hynes coached garbage AHL quality teams for most of his time in NJ and now that he finally has a somewhat talented team doesn’t he deserve a little slack after having nothing to work with?

The question is how long? Losing Hall would almost guarantee this team will be bad again at least next season. But it seems keeping Hynes almost guarantees losing Hall because this team just isn’t responding. 

So should we expect to lose Hall this season and see Hynes start the year next season? Personally I believe that’s what’s going to happen. 

You’re overestimating how long a reasonable leash is for an NHL head coach. 

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so is this a rift between player and coach or do they get along or did they have a falling out.

 

hard to say, but if that is the case then the coach goes first.

 

edit: in other words, blow it up, hynes is not the talent.

Edited by lazer
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33 minutes ago, jagknife said:

He should have had a shorter leash than Babcock, in my honest opinion. This roster is far too talented on paper, performance or not, to be jockeying at the bottom of the league again. He's done more with less, and now that he has actual talent, he isn't getting them to perform to their abilities.

The fact he's also the 5th longest tenured coach out there, with only one playoff appearance, bothers me a little. Yes, I know he's had jack to work with, and through no fault of his own, but this acceptance of mediocracy the organization seems to have currently is flat out unacceptable.

I'd love to be able to pick Shero's brain for just a half hour and try to understand the method to his madness cause it is driving me insane to see the team that had so much promise be so damn streaky.

I don't think it's acceptance of mediocrity, it's reality. We're in a rebuild, starting from a way worse place than even a Rangers did. We had ZERO assets. I haven't really minded the leash until now, because I don't think the team is this bad. 

I'm not so sure losing Hall would be the end of the world, especially if it's for a good return in a trade and where else that money went to. I mean the Islanders had a decent rebound after Tavares, I think the situations could be similar.

 

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13 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

I don't think it's acceptance of mediocrity, it's reality. We're in a rebuild, starting from a way worse place than even a Rangers did. We had ZERO assets. I haven't really minded the leash until now, because I don't think the team is this bad. 

I'm not so sure losing Hall would be the end of the world, especially if it's for a good return in a trade and where else that money went to. I mean the Islanders had a decent rebound after Tavares, I think the situations could be similar.

 

I firmly believe the biggest x-factor in the Isles maintaining and then excelling after JT was hiring Trotz. He gets the most from what he has. Yes they had a good core as well, but is their core really that much better than ours?

I do not believe Hynes is that answer.

Edited by jagknife
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How about this..

Hall gets traded and the Devils bring in some assets, maybe a decent roster player.  Then after he goes on to win his Stanley Cup, he signs an $85 million deal with the Devils!

Taylor gets his playoff wishes out of his system for the time being and his mega contract, the team gets some trade return, a high draft pick, and another year of experience for the kids.

It's win-freaking-win, baby!

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28 minutes ago, Crisis said:

How about this..

Hall gets traded and the Devils bring in some assets, maybe a decent roster player.  Then after he goes on to win his Stanley Cup, he signs an $85 million deal with the Devils!

Taylor gets his playoff wishes out of his system for the time being and his mega contract, the team gets some trade return, a high draft pick, and another year of experience for the kids.

It's win-freaking-win, baby!

I don’t think there’s a competitive person in sports that will win a championship and then say “this was fun but you know what would be more fun? Going back to a terrible fvckin hockey team that’s going nowhere, where the fans and I got into fights.”

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1 hour ago, jagknife said:

He should have had a shorter leash than Babcock, in my honest opinion. This roster is far too talented on paper, performance or not, to be jockeying at the bottom of the league again. He's done more with less, and now that he has actual talent, he isn't getting them to perform to their abilities.

The fact he's also the 5th longest tenured coach out there, with only one playoff appearance, bothers me a little. Yes, I know he's had jack to work with, and through no fault of his own, but this acceptance of mediocracy the organization seems to have currently is flat out unacceptable.

I'd love to be able to pick Shero's brain for just a half hour and try to understand the method to his madness cause it is driving me insane to see the team that had so much promise be so damn streaky.

 

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

You’re overestimating how long a reasonable leash is for an NHL head coach. 

I’m just trying to empathize with Ray to try to see where he’s coming from. I think it’s that kind of loyalty that gets him in trouble though. I think you’re both right though and Hynes should not be getting this long of a leash especially in this important season that we were supposed to be proving to Hall and everyone else that we are going to be competitive going forward. We obviously already failed at that. 

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1 hour ago, jagknife said:

I firmly believe the biggest x-factor in the Isles maintaining and then excelling after JT was hiring Trotz. He gets the most from what he has. Yes they had a good core as well, but is their core really that much better than ours?

I do not believe Hynes is that answer.

I think we're somewhat in agreement there.

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43 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I don’t think there’s a competitive person in sports that will win a championship and then say “this was fun but you know what would be more fun? Going back to a terrible fvckin hockey team that’s going nowhere, where the fans and I got into fights.”

We don't know how Taylor feels. Is there a situation where I see Taylor look at this team, maybe a new coach, gets traded brings back assets, he could very well join a team that loses in the first round - gets to free agency - looks around, sees what deals are on the table and decides to come back. It's certainly unusual, but it's not crazy.

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1 hour ago, MB3 said:

I don’t think there’s a competitive person in sports that will win a championship and then say “this was fun but you know what would be more fun? Going back to a terrible fvckin hockey team that’s going nowhere, where the fans and I got into fights.”

I agree, but I think that one incident with the booing isn’t exactly a history of a bad relationship with the fans. You’re over dramatizing that.

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1 hour ago, MB3 said:

I don’t think there’s a competitive person in sports that will win a championship and then say “this was fun but you know what would be more fun? Going back to a terrible fvckin hockey team that’s going nowhere, where the fans and I got into fights.”

Yeah well you obviously haven't been in my fantasy world then, have you?

EDIT: Lemme know if you want to though.

Edited by Crisis
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3 hours ago, jagknife said:

I firmly believe the biggest x-factor in the Isles maintaining and then excelling after JT was hiring Trotz. He gets the most from what he has. Yes they had a good core as well, but is their core really that much better than ours?

I do not believe Hynes is that answer.

Trotz is the main reason that team has been successful. That roster ain’t that impressive. And they still aren’t winning anything significant with Thomas Greiss in net come Spring.

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On 11/20/2019 at 6:14 PM, Daniel said:

Per my post in the Babcock thread, there have been some bluecheck rumblings that Babcock saw this coming and had sent out feelers to other teams over the past couple of days.  So there’s a small chance that Babcock’s availability is what has taken Ray so long to fire Hynes.

 So if Babcock is going to be our new coach sooner rather than later, I see if he can turn around the team’s fortunes with Hall.  In the meantime, I only ask for a ridiculous overpay: Caufield from Montreal, Byram from Colorado, or Gaudreau from Calgary.  We can always get the B prospect and first round pick package closer to the trade deadline.  

Whoa, isn’t that some sort of violation of NHL labor policy if Babcock did this while still coach?  Or am I misunderstanding your point?  A team contacting a player under contract would be clear tampering, but aren’t the same rules essentially in force for coaches?  After all, it isn’t like players can conduct their own search for trades while under contract unless given explicit permission to do so (at least in most leagues.... can’t keep track of all these different policies).

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14 minutes ago, AEWHistory said:

Whoa, isn’t that some sort of violation of NHL labor policy if Babcock did this while still coach?  Or am I misunderstanding your point?  A team contacting a player under contract would be clear tampering, but aren’t the same rules essentially in force for coaches?  After all, it isn’t like players can conduct their own search for trades while under contract unless given explicit permission to do so (at least in most leagues.... can’t keep track of all these different policies).

The coaches aren’t governed by the CBA, but obviously you can’t tamper when someone is under contract and definitely someone who is still coaching.  Still I imagine there are grey areas, like Babcock’s agent getting a sense of whether certain teams are likely to fire their coach at some point during the season and the type of replacement they’d be looking for.

Anyway, it was just a rumor, although plausible so far as they go.

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18 hours ago, jagknife said:

I firmly believe the biggest x-factor in the Isles maintaining and then excelling after JT was hiring Trotz. He gets the most from what he has. Yes they had a good core as well, but is their core really that much better than ours?

I do not believe Hynes is that answer.

I was invited to the isles-penguins game last night by a friend and I was really impressed with how confident the Islanders are as a team. The excitement and energy in the building was evident too. I felt bummed knowing how weak the our team is compared to that. One organization is in the toilet, the other....riding high with talent, confidence and enthusiasm. It was very depressing to be there as a Devils fan. 

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