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26 minutes ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

How ridiculous that Hynes is the fifth longest tenured coach. Clearly he has done nothing to warrant this top 5 distinction. Fire him yesterday.

There are questions about Babcock but on his worst day he would be an upgrade over our loser of a head coach. And fire him whether Babcock wants to come here or not.   

I mean, tbf, different situations on the hire. 

2015-16 roster was interesting...

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I will take perennial playoff loser than a perennial no-playoffs loser.

Hynes could be the coolest guy in the locker room. 90% of our roster may hate the idea of replacing him but if another guy rights the ship, the team will be feeling much better. Still, my gut feeling

I would rather have a bottle of hines ketchup behind the bench then hynes...

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A cursory glance at the numbers re: the Leafs' offense, would make one think that Babcock is a natural choice to replace Hynes. But to an extent, some of the problems the Leafs are currently having echo the ones the Devils are having - problems which Babcock, like Hynes, has been unable to solve with better offensive firepower.

That's not to say Babcock isn't a good choice - there's many more variables to consider and the Leafs have performed very well under Babcock in the past - but the point is, there are reasons to be cautious.

Edited by Neb00rs
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18 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

A cursory glance at the numbers re: the Leafs' offense, would make one think that Babcock is a natural choice to replace Hynes. But to an extent, some of the problems the Leafs are currently having echo the ones the Devils are having - problems which Babcock, like Hynes, has been unable to solve with better offensive firepower.

That's not to say Babcock isn't a good choice - there's many more variables to consider and the Leafs have performed very well under Babcock in the past - but the point is, there are reasons to be cautious.

People are really over thinking this.  It’s implausible that after three straight seasons where the Leafs won a lot more games than they lost that came on the heels of a tanking team, Babcock all the sudden can’t coach because the Leafs are a game under NHL .500 twenty games into the season with Mitch Marner being hurt recently.  

I also find it highly implausible that at age 30, PK Subban, who is still in peak physical condition, all the sudden has no idea how to play hockey anymore.  It’s also implausible that a team with these forwards has a power play that cannot gets out of its own way.

You have to believe all of this not to think it’s a no brainer to fire Hynes right now and replace him with Babcock if the latter is willing to coach here.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

People are really over thinking this.  It’s implausible that after three straight seasons where the Leafs won a lot more games than they lost that came on the heels of a tanking team, Babcock all the sudden can’t coach because the Leafs are a game under NHL .500 twenty games into the season with Mitch Marner being hurt recently.  

I also find it highly implausible that at age 30, PK Subban, who is still in peak physical condition, all the sudden has no idea how to play hockey anymore.  It’s also implausible that a team with these forwards has a power play that cannot gets out of its own way.

You have to believe all of this not to think it’s a no brainer to fire Hynes right now and replace him with Babcock if the latter is willing to coach here.  

 

No one here is saying Babcock "forgot how to coach" but presumably more goes into the hiring of a coach then, "HIRE BABCOCK NOW!"

There are things to keep in mind with Babcock - and how the Leafs have performed lately relative to the Devils. Just because your analysis doesn't go any deeper than "the Devils powerplay cannot get out of its own way," doesn't mean there aren't actual tangible things we can pinpoint to discuss the pros and cons of bringing in Babcock in an intelligent way. If your definition of "overthinking" is "any thinking" though, there's no post I could make on the subject save for "HIRE BABCOCK NOW!" that would satisfy you.

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No enthusiasm for Babcock. 6 million $ man. Not sure anyone can turn this team around quickly.  I'd like a defense 1st coach (Trotz/Tippett) for a change. Not exciting hockey, but wins games. I remember listening to how Jacque ruined the game years ago, but no one came into our building g thinking Devils are a piece of cake. 

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24 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

No one here is saying Babcock "forgot how to coach" but presumably more goes into the hiring of a coach then, "HIRE BABCOCK NOW!"

There are things to keep in mind with Babcock - and how the Leafs have performed lately relative to the Devils. Just because your analysis doesn't go any deeper than "the Devils powerplay cannot get out of its own way," doesn't mean there aren't actual tangible things we can pinpoint to discuss the pros and cons of bringing in Babcock in an intelligent way. If your definition of "overthinking" is "any thinking" though, there's no post I could make on the subject save for "HIRE BABCOCK NOW!" that would satisfy you.

I’m a simple man.  On the one hand I see a coach that has done a whole lot of winning for more than a decade, who immediately turned around a team that was tanking one year.  On the other I see our coach, who has not accomplished anything at the NHL level, who has a talented roster yet the team loses a lot and in embarrassing fashion.  
 

At least one thing is for certain, Mike Babcock is a better head coach than John Hynes and he’s a better head coach than whoever in the organization that might replace him.   

Or Ray can do the only thing he knows how to do, luck into a generational talent that allows him to sit in office and play spider solitaire and convince himself he’s a genius.  

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3 minutes ago, Aitchmack said:

With a name like Babcock your memes will never stay PG-13. But it'll be fun watching you try.

Yeah that’s a suspension waiting to happen.

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1 hour ago, pumpkin cutter said:

I would like him here for at least the remainder of the season. Hynes’ fast attacking supportive bs has never came to fruition. Team needs to wash the stink off of them. 

Babcock isn't an interim. You hire him or a Cooper with multi-years and money. If the Devils wants to fire Hynes and go Interim until they find a fit, whether they go a week, a month, the summer - cool by me. I still don't think Hynes or his staff is going to lead this team to the next level. 

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9 hours ago, vadvlfan said:

No enthusiasm for Babcock. 6 million $ man. Not sure anyone can turn this team around quickly.  I'd like a defense 1st coach (Trotz/Tippett) for a change. Not exciting hockey, but wins games. I remember listening to how Jacque ruined the game years ago, but no one came into our building g thinking Devils are a piece of cake. 

Bring back the trap ! lol

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11 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

A cursory glance at the numbers re: the Leafs' offense, would make one think that Babcock is a natural choice to replace Hynes. But to an extent, some of the problems the Leafs are currently having echo the ones the Devils are having - problems which Babcock, like Hynes, has been unable to solve with better offensive firepower.

That's not to say Babcock isn't a good choice - there's many more variables to consider and the Leafs have performed very well under Babcock in the past - but the point is, there are reasons to be cautious.

 

10 hours ago, Neb00rs said:

No one here is saying Babcock "forgot how to coach" but presumably more goes into the hiring of a coach then, "HIRE BABCOCK NOW!"

There are things to keep in mind with Babcock - and how the Leafs have performed lately relative to the Devils. Just because your analysis doesn't go any deeper than "the Devils powerplay cannot get out of its own way," doesn't mean there aren't actual tangible things we can pinpoint to discuss the pros and cons of bringing in Babcock in an intelligent way. If your definition of "overthinking" is "any thinking" though, there's no post I could make on the subject save for "HIRE BABCOCK NOW!" that would satisfy you.

Since these posts are going more in depth than "FIRE HYNES!  ACQUIRE BABCOCK NOW!!! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!", I'll piggyback off these.

It seems like everyone's assuming that the ball is firmly in Shero's court, and that all he has to do is can Hynes, make a phone call, and just like that, Babcock is here.  One problem with that is that it doesn't take into account that Babcock was fired with another three seasons left on his deal after this one...he can make a fortune just sitting around doing absolutely nothing for the next few years, if so inclined...but at the very least, it also affords him plenty of patience, in that if he does still want to coach, he doesn't necessarily have to jump right back in if he's feeling a little burned out or needs to recharge.  He can wait until a situation that he considers to be ideal for him opens up. 

And it's not like he's had any great run of success in Toronto, given the talent that he had to work with...yes, he won a Cup back in 2008 with Detroit, but his teams have also won a grand total of 3 playoff series in his last 10 seasons (going back to his Red Wings days)...and not a single one in the last six. 

Though the Leafs have a seemingly endless amount of money to burn, it's also very telling that they were willing to let him going with SO much money and term left on his deal...not that the Leafs aren't immune to making rash decisions, but that's still a hell of lot of money to pay a guy to do nothing at all.  They couldn't have come to that decision without thinking it through on some level, and simply concluding that as costly as firing Babcock was going to be, that they had no other choice.

Anyway, not saying that I'm dead-set against the Devils hiring him...assuming Babcock wants to jump right into another HC gig, the Devils may not have to offer him a crazy term with a lot of money...Babcock's got so much money coming from Toronto that maybe he's open to the idea of finishing out this season and coaching three more, on a reasonably-priced contract.  But like Neb00rs has pointed out, this is not an absolute no-brainer slamdunk kind of move.  I get it, he's Not-Hynes, just like Domingue is Not-Schneider, so Babcock already is an attractive candidate right there.  But let's not completely overlook the red flags that come with him...one being that his shelf-life might be shorter now than it's ever been.  Should the Devils hire him through the end of 2023, it's not insane to think he might not make it to the end of that deal.  There's some blowup potential with him.

All this being said, if push comes to shove, I have to at least look into it if I'm Shero.  I know Shero probably wants to give Hynes one last benefit of the doubt now that Schneider's out of the picture for the moment, and Vatanen's in over Tennyson.  But I think you're just pumping a dry well with Hynes at this point.  It really feels like it's time to move on.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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10 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I will take perennial playoff loser than a perennial no-playoffs loser.

Perennial bad enough to get two number 1 overall picks who proceed underperform while losing to Ottawa.

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32 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I will take perennial playoff loser than a perennial no-playoffs loser.

To be fair, Babcock has had a lot more to work with through the years than Hynes has in his much shorter sample.  Obviously I'm not a huge Hynes guy at this point and I'm not going to be heartbroken if he doesn't survive the season, but it's only right to point that out. 

24 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

With a Stanley Cup to his name. Real loser.

Mike Keenan technically has a Cup to his name too (even if it was Messier who really held the team together).  Dan Bylsma and Randy Carlyle do too.  Want either one of them? 

Babcock's teams have gone a combined 32-42 in the playoffs over the last 10 years (winning three series).  Like I said in my previous post, I'm not completely against the idea of Babcock coming aboard and I think Shero has to least look into it, but I think a lot of Devils fans think he's going to turn this around very quickly and in time will almost definitely take this team deep into the playoffs.  I don't think he'll have as much of an impact as fans expect...I think the fact that he's Not-Hynes and won a Cup (almost 12 years now) has fans thinking he's as close to a sure thing as there is.  That I don't see (I do think he should represent an upgrade over Hynes, but I'm not sure if he's the RIGHT one).   

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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