Subban

[Daniel]

27 minutes ago, Guadana said:

If we will trade hall and he doesn’t want to sign with us - is tanking really bad. Guys are to softy and young, def corpse is empty,  devs don’t  claim for something. It’s a reality. Rebuilding isn’t in the end. Rebuilding is in the middle. 

I agree there's no choice but to do that for this year.  It just can't be the constant fallback plan.

[NJDevs4978]

Geez Daniel don’t you have enough threads to complain about Shero and Hynes? There’s (unfortunately) a legit discussion to be had over whether Subban is affected by the system, hurt, over the hill or turning into a fat cat but this thread is just the same discussion any number of other threads already are.

Edited December 5, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Geez Daniel don’t you have enough threads to complain about Shero and Hynes? There’s (unfortunately) a legit discussion to be had over whether Subban is affected by the system, hurt, over the hill or turning into a fat cat but this thread is just the same discussion any number of other threads already are.

If you look, there's a certain poster who is responsible for derailing the discussions, and it isn't me.

My position on Subban has been very straightforward.  We don't yet know if he's just no longer a good player because the team is very poorly coached as evidenced by the fact that virtually everyone on the team has underperformed and we are sitting in second to last place.

What we do know is that he's here for two more years after this no matter what.  The good news is that his salary does not matter because it won't prevent the Devils from doing something they otherwise would want to especially now that Taylor Hall is not in the team's future. 

So I hope there has been some discussion between Subban and Ray that this year is a mulligan, but that he's got to screw his head on straight once the season ends.  That needs to be the message to a lot of players probably.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

No it’s not. If losing was the intention why not just stay with Hynes the rest of the season? He was certainly good at it. 

Yup. And Cory.

[DJ Eco]

I'm still giving Subban somewhat of a benefit of a doubt. That he doesn't have any PP points whatsoever is just freakish, and really points to a fundamental deficiency in the systems and powerplay setup our coaches have set up.

His shot alone makes him an asset on any marginally well-coached PP in the league, you have to try hard to make his one-timer NOT to make a dent in a single PP this season, and for at least the first 10-15 games, I noticed the PP was not drawn up to set P.K. up for the shot; and when he took it upon himself to create the shot, there were never any bodies in front, so that says it all. Our coaches have misutilized him, as they have many of our players, in a woefully ineffective system.

Everyone knows players like Ovechkin or Weber or Burns are going to take the big one-timer on the PP, but their PP is designed foolproof to make sure they get the shot anyway, and the same should've been in place for Subban. Put him on the 2nd PP unit (where we have fewer tools), and set it up so he can get 2-3 one-timers every PP with 2 bodies in front, it's that simple, but you watch our PPs and everyone's just free-skating around trying to make the perfect plays.

Edited December 5, 2019 by DJ Eco

[mfitz804]

7 minutes ago, DJ Eco said:

I'm still giving Subban somewhat of a benefit of a doubt. That he doesn't have any PP points whatsoever is just freakish, and really points to a fundamental deficiency in the systems and powerplay setup our coaches have set up.

His shot alone makes him an asset on any marginally well-coached PP in the league.

I feel the same way, if anything, he's trying to do too much because the defense is a dumpster fire. I think if they were more settled, we'd be seeing a different performance from him. 

[titans04]

Could be but when you're paid as a top three in the league you should be a difference maker at the highest level in a positive way. He should be making whoever he's out with better and instead he can barely keep his own head above water that's on him not who's behind the bench. 

I would think he's gonna have some good moments over the remainder of the season but there's nothing so far to indicate he's capable of doing it consistently. I do hope he wakes the fvck up because they can't afford for him to continue to stink it up.

[Devil Dan 56]

21 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Could be but when you're paid as a top three in the league you should be a difference maker at the highest level in a positive way. He should be making whoever he's out with better and instead he can barely keep his own head above water that's on him not who's behind the bench. 

I would think he's gonna have some good moments over the remainder of the season but there's nothing so far to indicate he's capable of doing it consistently. I do hope he wakes the fvck up because they can't afford for him to continue to stink it up.

I don't think "waking up" fixes anything when nearly every player outside of Coleman and maybe one or two others has been a disappointment. If PK was playing poorly and everyone else was fine that would make sense, but this goes deeper than one guy. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Devil Dan 56

[titans04]

2 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I don't think "waking up" fixes anything when nearly every player outside of Coleman and maybe one or two others has been a disappointment. If PK was playing poorly and everyone else was fine that would make sense, but this goes deeper than one guy. 

They brought this specific guy in to be  stud and to elevate the D play, he's not done that do date. You can count on one hand how many guys on this roster had stud expectations going in (realistically anyway). They wouldn't of paid him superstar money to be a passenger. As for the rest of the roster in general I don't think at this point of their careers the expectations should of been high at all.  On a side note for Chico to come out and say Hall (regardless of his assists) needs to do much more speaks volumes.

[NewarkDevil5]

You could bring in Bobby Orr and with the way this team has been coached to play we'd be wondering if he was worth league minimum. If four other guys have their heads in their rear the fifth will look bad too. The team has been coached to force the dangerous play over the safe one each and every time (which would be unpredictable in a "no one could be that stupid" kind of way the first couple of times it happens but eventually teams catch on and exploit it).

[titans04]

1 hour ago, NewarkDevil5 said:

You could bring in Bobby Orr and with the way this team has been coached to play we'd be wondering if he was worth league minimum. If four other guys have their heads in their rear the fifth will look bad too. The team has been coached to force the dangerous play over the safe one each and every time (which would be unpredictable in a "no one could be that stupid" kind of way the first couple of times it happens but eventually teams catch on and exploit it).

Sure PK needs to get back to the way he's always played - making the safe play. Plus his track record according to guys here that have followed him more closely always indicated he played exactly the way his coaches wanted him to. The excuses for a 9M "premier free agent" are great I'm sure he appreciates them.  

[Daniel]

23 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Sure PK needs to get back to the way he's always played - making the safe play. Plus his track record according to guys here that have followed him more closely always indicated he played exactly the way his coaches wanted him to. The excuses for a 9M "premier free agent" are great I'm sure he appreciates them.  

I don’t care how much money he makes.  I’m not paying it and the cap hit doesn’t mean anything for the team based on who might realistically be on the roster in the next two years.  And otherwise, I don’t think we really gave up all that much to get him, although that second round pick this year would be nice to have.  
 

I didn’t think we were getting the Norris trophy version of him, but I did think we were getting a legitimate top pairing defenseman who can play all situations, play a ton of minutes and put up at least 40 points a season.  I don’t think all hope is lost there.  Even though I have no faith in Nass, the change of a coach itself no matter who it is will often have some short term effect.  So if we see something in the next five to ten games, even if he falls back to earth after, I’ll be more optimistic about the next two years.

[titans04]

[Anhkheg]

Leave Daniel alone, I like him, especially when he is wrong at the end 😀😀. But he is so damn passionate about this team, I love it.

[NJDevs4978]

12 hours ago, Daniel said:

If you look, there's a certain poster who is responsible for derailing the discussions, and it isn't me.

It's hard for me to take the 'who started it' angle seriously when you've had like thirty posts in this thread on it.  You've become little better than a troll at this point, lying in wait for a post to respond with your talking points on.

[Daniel]

8 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

It's hard for me to take the 'who started it' angle seriously when you've had like thirty posts in this thread on it.  You've become little better than a troll at this point, lying in wait for a post to respond with your talking points on.

I was happy to talk about Subban here, and thought what I said was reasonable enough, then something happened, which I won’t say, but it involves a guy who still brings up not trading Zach Parise.

2 hours ago, Anhkheg said:

Leave Daniel alone, I like him, especially when he is wrong at the end 😀😀. But he is so damn passionate about this team, I love it.

I started a thread correctly calling for the firing of the coach.

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

I was happy to talk about Subban here, and thought what I said was reasonable enough, then something happened, which I won’t say, but it involves a guy who still brings up not trading Zach Parise.

I started a thread correctly calling for the firing of the coach.

lol dude. You're aware anyone can go and read the thread and see that you're full of sh!t right? Without quoting anyone you just posted this comment at the end of your post. i had NOTHING to do with it. 

"We're tanking the rest of the season.  That much has to be painfully obvious to everyone.  Hopefully, hopefully Ray finally hires a real coach for the first time in his career and we'll know what we have."

Which made me and other posters comment on your whole "tanking the season thing".

You've been a pain in the ass to read here for months now, you just turn about anything into a fvck Shero / Hynes fest, you straight up make stuff up, put words in people's mouth and you started god knows how many threads  just to bitch about Shero/Hynes on top of that, do you really think anyone here will believe that you needed someone to twist your arm to get you to open up about it? Come on now

Edited December 6, 2019 by SterioDesign

[Devilsfan118]

22 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Yup. And Cory.

I don't think you could continue to trott Cory out there in good conscience.  He'd be getting the boobirds for the rest of the year... no sense subjecting a nice guy to that abuse.  Like it'd almost be cruel to do so.

Likewise with Hynes - the "FIRE HYNES" chants would only get louder and louder.  Kinda brutal to subject him to that stuff in the name of tanking.

[titans04]

 

[DevsMan84]

3 minutes ago, titans04 said:

 

What a horrible, sh!t take by Cyrgalis.  No wonder players have little respect for him and that he looks like he got atomic wedgied throughout high school by the jocks.

This is not like KK who was caught on twitter blocking people during the intermission of a game. PK is literally doing these appearances on his own time.  He is also not posting or making videos during the games or practices.  He is not skipping practices or games to gallivant around in NYC.  Is he supposed to sit at home and sulk?  Is getting an extra 30 minutes in on the treadmill going to change things?

[mfitz804]

22 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

What a horrible, sh!t take by Cyrgalis.  No wonder players have little respect for him and that he looks like he got atomic wedgied throughout high school by the jocks.

This is not like KK who was caught on twitter blocking people during the intermission of a game. PK is literally doing these appearances on his own time.  He is also not posting or making videos during the games or practices.  He is not skipping practices or games to gallivant around in NYC.  Is he supposed to sit at home and sulk?  Is getting an extra 30 minutes in on the treadmill going to change things?

Yup that article is incredibly stupid. 

[StarDew]

16 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

lol dude. You're aware anyone can go and read the thread and see that you're full of sh!t right? Without quoting anyone you just posted this comment at the end of your post. i had NOTHING to do with it. 

"We're tanking the rest of the season.  That much has to be painfully obvious to everyone.  Hopefully, hopefully Ray finally hires a real coach for the first time in his career and we'll know what we have."

Which made me and other posters comment on your whole "tanking the season thing".

You've been a pain in the ass to read here for months now, you just turn about anything into a fvck Shero / Hynes fest, you straight up make stuff up, put words in people's mouth and you started god knows how many threads  just to bitch about Shero/Hynes on top of that, do you really think anyone here will believe that you needed someone to twist your arm to get you to open up about it? Come on now

Then don't read his posts.  You're no prize package to read. And yeah, I am down to reading only 2% of your insanity and it is quickly falling to 0%. Sheesh!

[titans04]

He could of stopped after his game is in shambles and the team is a mess. Nailed that part to a T. 

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, titans04 said:

 

Not saying he's right in this article. But it's at least fair to question if Subban doesn't have too much on his plate outside of the rink and that it could be impacting his focus. I mean he's human, and we all know that when we have too much on the go that some aspect of our lives can lose focus. Subban will always give 200% "physically" on every shift but the knock on him was always his decision making so if he's less focus than he was, that could be part of the reason why he's been so bad

After all it was for that specific reason that Lou didn't want his players to do much with fans and social media lol he wanted them to focus on hockey only.

Of course Lou was WAY too strict and Subban is WAY too engaged.

Man I can't imagine a worst match than Lou and Subban in the NHL lol My boys ! 

[Devil Dan 56]

5 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

What a horrible, sh!t take by Cyrgalis.  No wonder players have little respect for him and that he looks like he got atomic wedgied throughout high school by the jocks.

 

From the looks of his other articles, it appears he's the Rags towel boy. 

 

5 hours ago, titans04 said:

 

BREAKING NEWS! Player does things on days off!

Edited December 7, 2019 by Devil Dan 56