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SterioDesign

Shero's Track Record

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Ok so there is no precise timeline.  Does that mean we suck into perpetuity then?  Does that mean we are actually worse now than where we were 5-6 years ago?  What should we do when all these "makes sense" moves suddenly start to not work out more than it should (which has been starting to happen in the past couple of years)?

The point of all this is to put forward a contending team.  Eventually you have to get over the hump and start winning games.  Five years isn't eternity, but it's not yesterday either.

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40 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Ok so there is no precise timeline.  Does that mean we suck into perpetuity then?  Does that mean we are actually worse now than where we were 5-6 years ago?  What should we do when all these "makes sense" moves suddenly start to not work out more than it should (which has been starting to happen in the past couple of years)?

The point of all this is to put forward a contending team.  Eventually you have to get over the hump and start winning games.  Five years isn't eternity, but it's not yesterday either.

No and i get it dude but it doesn't mean that we have to suck. I think as long as we're seeing "progress" heading in the right direction in term of roster and assets, that's what we need to see. But as you rebuild you need to have a plan but also be flexible and know how to respond to wtv is presenting itself.

From all the moves Shero did... I think his #1 goal was to rebuild a young team. But if he had an opportunity to get an established player on the cheap that he'd take it.

He got a good deals on Palms, Hall and Mojo... then we landed a first overall pick and made the playoffs... we all know we overachieved that season and it made Shero go out of his way a bit (trading for maroon and Grabner).We all thought Grabner was a perfect trade based on our new identity and all went "who?" for Maroon... again... Grabner was abnormally bad and Maroon was amazing lol

So i think his plan was always to rebuild as young as possible and surround Nico... but a few opportunities presented themselves that could potentially make us competitive... again... "on paper" landing a first overall pick... landing the "best player outside the NHL" and one of the top offensive forwards (let's remember... all "deals", he didnt sell he farm for those guys).

I guess just like i said this summer... it looked like we could potentially have 2 windows to a cup... with Hall, Subban, Palms, Gusev, Vats all in their prime... and our young guys like Nico, Bratt, hughes etc as a supporting cast "for now", knowing they were the real rebuild. Well it didn't pan out so i think it made Shero realize the goal was really to surround Nico and Hughes. So Hall didn't fit the timeline anymore.

Personally im really optimistic about the future, there's no guarantee but at least we have something to look forward too. A young team that should improve together.

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3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Well it's not that clear cause you're having it all wrong lol

The fvcking goal of this thread is a response to all the haters who don't understand that building a hockey team is not something you can put a precise timeline on. To give context as to how hard it is to build a competitive team. The fact that some fans here are somehow assuming that within X amount of years a team should be competitive again is just ridiculous. That's simply not something you can control, even if you're the best GM in the league. So to say that if a GM cannot get a team up and running in such a short amount of time is just unfair. Again i'm not bringing up the 2015 team to bash Lou. I'm bringing it up as context that even if you give the best carpenter in the world a screwdriver, 4 bricks and a 2x4... he's not going to build you a whole fvcking house in a week. It's gonna take awhile before he can gather all the materials.

You can potentially get better by

1- Developing the talent you're drafting

2- Signing free agents

3- Through trades

4- Getting the right coaching staff and the right mix of players in place.

So by showing what was available each off season and what moves we made. It's easy to see we didn't make many bad decisions, things just didn't go our way.

There's so many moving parts and things that can go wrong. You can make the best possible decision based on everything you know but then it doesnt pan out. In 2014, how many teams were sure they made the right choice at the draft based on the information they had? how many of them would draft Pastrnak instead if they could?

We drafted the BEST prospect according to every single scouts in the world twice. We traded for one of the "top offensive defenseman", we traded for the "best player outside of the NHL"... so far it didn't pan out. I suspect every single GM in the NHL would have made the same moves if they could of at the time. But it didn't pan out, there's rarely any guaranteed anything you do as a GM. You can't just look at results and go "well that's all on the GM".

 

For fvck's sake, everyone who is trying to engage you on this is telling you that the problem they see with Shero is point number 4 especially when it comes to coaching, which is literally how you build a team that wins.  The other three points are truisms.

 

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16 minutes ago, Daniel said:

For fvck's sake, everyone who is trying to engage you on this is telling you that the problem they see with Shero is point number 4 especially when it comes to coaching, which is literally how you build a team that wins.  The other three points are truisms.

You're 100% missing the point I made with that list and actually this whole thread. Again. 

I'd explain it again but let's be honest here. There's no point right? Honestly why are we still even engaging with each others? Clearly no good will come out of it

Edited by SterioDesign

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Shero's drafting hasnt been great so far but he hasnt made any picks where I said to myself "wtf is he thinking". 

And just to head off the inevitble "BuT wE cOUld HaVE Had BaRzAl!!!!!!!" posts, 16 other teams passed on him before the Islanders. The confirmation bias that goes on with this draft pick is really something and I'm tired of it.  

McLeod has not been great, but has looked better lately, and we drafted right out of the top tier of picks here. The only thing you can criticise him for is not taking Logan Brown (who has played 22 NHL games), but we got an extra pick in this deal (no idea who we used it on). 

 

Edited by Toasterleavins

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10 minutes ago, Toasterleavins said:

McLeod has not been great, but has looked better lately

Two wins out of three since he replaced Hall on the roster. He fixed all of our problems. 

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1 hour ago, Toasterleavins said:

Shero's drafting hasnt been great so far but he hasnt made any picks where I said to myself "wtf is he thinking". 

And just to head off the inevitble "BuT wE cOUld HaVE Had BaRzAl!!!!!!!" posts, 16 other teams passed on him before the Islanders. The confirmation bias that goes on with this draft pick is really something and I'm tired of it.  

McLeod has not been great, but has looked better lately, and we drafted right out of the top tier of picks here. The only thing you can criticise him for is not taking Logan Brown (who has played 22 NHL games), but we got an extra pick in this deal (no idea who we used it on). 

 

We also knew once Jost was drafted that there was a huge drop in talent that year. We even traded down so it's really not like there was someone we REALLY wanted around that spot

 

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The lack of drafting/developing a single NHL level defense-men is my main knock with how Shero has operated. It was a position that was aging and weak when he arrived and it remains aging and weak after 5 years. Ty Smith is the only guy drafted you can point to as having a good chance to have an NHL career...Defense is the position that I don't have a clear vision of how they'll build it to a strength and I fear it will be what holds back the Hughes/Nico core from competing. 

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29 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

The lack of drafting/developing a single NHL level defense-men is my main knock with how Shero has operated. It was a position that was aging and weak when he arrived and it remains aging and weak after 5 years. Ty Smith is the only guy drafted you can point to as having a good chance to have an NHL career...Defense is the position that I don't have a clear vision of how they'll build it to a strength and I fear it will be what holds back the Hughes/Nico core from competing. 

we drafted more dmen than any other positions tho... so how did you want him to "operate" differently? 

Since Shero is here we drafted...

13 Dmen (we traded 2 of them tho)

11 Centers

8 Right Wingers

4 Left Wingers

4 Goalies

And we all know dmen usually take longer to develop especially so we're still within the window where they are developing in juniors or college. 

Edited by SterioDesign

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We also have traded for Dahl now...  so it's not like Shero is delusional with our defensive prospects either... 

Hopefully we can draft a defensemen with the 1st round pick from Arizona as well (with our pick hopefully grabbing another forward)... 

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20 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

we drafted more dmen than any other positions tho... so how did you want him to "operate" differently? 

Since Shero is here we drafted...

13 Dmen (we traded 2 of them tho)

11 Centers

8 Right Wingers

4 Left Wingers

4 Goalies

And we all know dmen usually take longer to develop especially so we're still within the window where they are developing in juniors or college. 

Yeah that's actually a fair point in terms of quantity drafted, but that is a bit skewed considering 4 of those were 7th round selections. But yeah in terms of process the only thing I can point to is maybe having used more top half of the draft selections on Defense (that did change in the 2019 draft and agreed that those windows are wide open for some NHLers to emerge). Agreed that there is still hope for some of these guys to develop for sure and hopefully my gripe falls away because of that.  (Zaitsev and Misyul both playing in the KHL, Walsh looking like he could be an NHL player, 4 taken in 2019). Obviously everyone is looking for these guys, but today I don't see a top pairing guy in the system and we'll need 1 or 2 of those to compete, so even though they are extremely hard to find it is a failure of Shero to have not found one to this point. But point taken that I don't have much of an idea on how I would have preferred he operated, so maybe I'm just complaining to complain here. 

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27 minutes ago, aylbert said:

We also have traded for Dahl now...  so it's not like Shero is delusional with our defensive prospects either... 

Hopefully we can draft a defensemen with the 1st round pick from Arizona as well (with our pick hopefully grabbing another forward)... 

Bahl also fits into what kind of defense Shero wants the team to have down the road.  If you look at last year's draft, he spent almost half of his picks on big defensemen with limited offensive upside (Ohyutuk, McCarthy, Vuykovic, Misyul).  I wouldn't be surprised if the Devils actually preferred Bahl to Soderstrom but still initially asked for Soderstrom just to be able to get more with Bahl. 

The Devils defense of the future will at most of have two lighter defensemen and Ty Smith will be one of them. 

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6 hours ago, Steadevils said:

Yeah that's actually a fair point in terms of quantity drafted, but that is a bit skewed considering 4 of those were 7th round selections. But yeah in terms of process the only thing I can point to is maybe having used more top half of the draft selections on Defense (that did change in the 2019 draft and agreed that those windows are wide open for some NHLers to emerge). Agreed that there is still hope for some of these guys to develop for sure and hopefully my gripe falls away because of that.  (Zaitsev and Misyul both playing in the KHL, Walsh looking like he could be an NHL player, 4 taken in 2019). Obviously everyone is looking for these guys, but today I don't see a top pairing guy in the system and we'll need 1 or 2 of those to compete, so even though they are extremely hard to find it is a failure of Shero to have not found one to this point. But point taken that I don't have much of an idea on how I would have preferred he operated, so maybe I'm just complaining to complain here. 

yeah i mean if it was that easy to find  a top 2 dman.

Just for fun and if you have time... go here... http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2015e.html

and go through the draft and note how many top 2 dmen there is in there... then check 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019... and let me know how many we missed... obviously hindsight 20/20 helps... but i still suspect there's not many in there

let me know

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