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Ray Shero and Devils Part Ways Effective Immediately


NJDevils1214

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I went back through the drafts from Ray, and yes too early too tell - but one thing that strikes me is how few defemsemen he's picked with the higher picks he had. Taking out Nico/Jack where he had no choice, but his first three drafts he didn't really pick a lot of D, and most were later later picks which are more crapshoots. We're picking Ray apart now, but that's the gimmick when one gets fired.

I still think this game is won by D 1st - and we didn't invest enough in it.

Edited by HellOnICE
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15 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I’m afraid of having to one day fire Martin Brodeur. That’s why I’d prefer he not be GM.

This is also what I'm a little afraid of, but if Brodeur really wants the job, then I think they just have to be up front with him and he needs to be aware that one day the conversation could be "Marty, unfortunately this just isn't working out - we're going to go in another direction".  It doesn't have to affect his legacy as a player.  Hopefully if he does get the nod he is a fantastic GM and we have tons of success, but even if that's not the case, if the latter example is how it can be managed, I think it will be fine.

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35 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I’m afraid of having to one day fire Martin Brodeur. That’s why I’d prefer he not be GM.

I'm not so much afraid to fire him, you do what you gotta do, but what I am afraid of is what it does to what he has meant to this franchise. It is almost like you have to but a BUT in there describing him after if it goes south. Marty means a lot to this franchise yadda yadda reasons, BUT it's a shame he didn't work out as GM and the fans toppled his statue in championship plaza like Iraqi citizens following the removal of Saddam. 

JCYkCN.gif

 

Edited by NJDevils1214
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9 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Again, would it really be any worse than this...

 

I like you, but I want you banned for a day now.  Or just edit your post.  That image should not be allowed - so much so, that I removed it from the quote lol.

Edited by NJDfan1711
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9 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

I went back through the drafts from Ray, and yes too early too tell - but one thing that strikes me is how few defemsemen he's picked with the higher picks he had. Taking out Nico/Jack where he had no choice, but his first three drafts he didn't really pick a lot of D, and most were later later picks which are more crapshoots. We're picking Ray apart now, but that's the gimmick when one gets fired.

I still think this game is won by D 1st - and we didn't invest enough in it.

The two knocks (via some writers) that I'm seeing most about Ray after the fact are his not addressing the D enough (especially through the draft), and not having contingency plans when things went wrong....especially in the case of goaltending.  

As far as the goalies go, short of buying Cory out and accepting dead money for a number of years, I'm not sure exactly what Shero was supposed to do in that case.  I'm guessing that if Ray had stayed, Cory would've gotten bought out after this year.  But doing it before then would've been tough...and he did play well at the end of last year.  Maybe it was overly optimistic, but there were reasons to think Cory might not spit the bit yet again in 2019-20.  

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Of course we didn't draft a lot of good defensemen, that is the Pittsburgh draft model. Sink all money into top end forward talent, then go out and get a bunch of scrubs and castoffs for defense and a goaltender to hopefully stand on his head and win cups.

Seriously, look at the defense corps for Pitt on their last 2 cups and show me how those teams won the cup?

However, as much as I dislike the Pittsburgh model, Gary Bettman and friends love it and have been adding in new rules to help those teams as much as possible for years.  So, from that standpoint in makes sense to draft that way now.

Sinking high picks and money into defense and goaltending doesn't usually work anymore.  St. Louis has a great and expensive defense, but their goalie is on a rookie deal.  Compare that with the albatross of Carey Price in Montreal, which makes our Cory deal look pretty good.

Edited by Rob_Ottawa
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1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I think it's quite unfair to judge Marty without giving him a chance.  He was in St. Louis for a few years and I'm sure learned quite a bit, and he's been here for a couple.  I'm not going to say he's going to be great, but he should at least be given a shot before you say he won't do a good job.

Fair enough.  I wasn't diminishing his not yet made personnel decisions (though I can see how that reads)

Merely being involved as a GM or Asst. GM in an organization you ruled as a player is fraught with disaster

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19 hours ago, MB3 said:

He was the assistant GM of the st Luis blues, you dingus.

He was jettisoned from that role because he was absolutely useless. We had to take him back in something of a sympathy comeback because no other franchise was interested in Brodeur working in any sort of personnel or operations category. He should be nowhere near a job other than team ambassador or something. 

The team you openly root for on these boards, the Rangers, when they rebuffed Messier trying to muscle his way to the head coaching gig there. These on ice legends are not always great execs. Brodeur right now absolutely has got to be stopped from digging his claws into the ownership group and having any say over personnel decisions

Edited by '7'
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3 minutes ago, '7' said:

He was jettisoned from that role because he was absolutely useless. We had to take him back in something of a sympathy comeback because no other franchise was interested in Brodeur working in any sort of personnel or operations category. He should be nowhere near a job other than team ambassador or something. 

Would be interesting if he joined the alumni group with Driver, Marshall, Dowd and White.  He would stick out like a sore thumb and would be great for his ego signing free autographs in the corner at a viewing party at Calandra's.

Edited by DevsMan84
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2 minutes ago, '7' said:

He was jettisoned from that role because he was absolutely useless. We had to take him back in something of a sympathy comeback because no other franchise was interested in Brodeur working in any sort of personnel or operations category. He should be nowhere near a job other than team ambassador or something. 

Do you have a source for this? Because he finished out his entire contract with them. 

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50 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

I went back through the drafts from Ray, and yes too early too tell - but one thing that strikes me is how few defemsemen he's picked with the higher picks he had. Taking out Nico/Jack where he had no choice, but his first three drafts he didn't really pick a lot of D, and most were later later picks which are more crapshoots. We're picking Ray apart now, but that's the gimmick when one gets fired.

I still think this game is won by D 1st - and we didn't invest enough in it.

When he got here, everyone figured the D was going to be set to the point that in 2015 it was pretty much assumed that he shouldn't pick a defenseman in the first round under any circumstances.  After that, having Chycrun or McAvoy might help a little bit, but neither of them are the stalwarts they're made out to be.

The Devils very obviously had a plan for the defense, which was to  move away from smaller guys, to bigger players who may not be offensive dynamos, but who can handle themselves in their own end, are not be grenade throwers and who won't get pushed around.  It's why I thought that Vatanen was a goner. We'll see if that was a Shero plan that's now going out the window, or a Fitzgerald idea that will continue. 

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5 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Do you have a source for this? Because he finished out his entire contract with them. 

Going from an assistant GM to a front office "marketing" type role seems like a step back to me. Maybe there was no interest around the league, but I find it hard to believe that no one would offer him a job if he was so good at it we are now considering him as a replacement to Shero.

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11 minutes ago, '7' said:

He was jettisoned from that role because he was absolutely useless. We had to take him back in something of a sympathy comeback because no other franchise was interested in Brodeur working in any sort of personnel or operations category. He should be nowhere near a job other than team ambassador or something. 

The team you openly root for on these boards, the Rangers, when they rebuffed Messier trying to muscle his way to the head coaching gig there. These on ice legends are not always great execs. Brodeur right now absolutely has got to be stopped from digging his claws into the ownership group and having any say over personnel decisions

I seem to recall that he generally got positive reviews in St. Louis. 

In any event, the word is that he doesn't want to be GM, but wants to have the President's role, kind of like Shanahan.  I couldn't tell you whether he would do a good job there, I just fear that if it turns out he can't, it's hard to cut ties. 

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i don't quite understand why some are saying that our drafting has been bad. It's so early. And at worst we're on par or better than the decade before Shero took over if you go through our draft history. If we break it down by slices of 5 years. We already all know how bad the drafting was with Conte but it's like we don't hold shero to the same standard for wtv reasons... some blame him for his drafting even if many many players are still developing... Obviously having top picks will make the job way way way easier on you. 

2015-2019 (Shero)

NHLers: Hischier / Bratt / Hughes / Blackwood / Zacha

Jury is still on out: Boqvist / McLeod  / Anderson / Smith

and there’s probably more... let's remember Coleman took a long time to make the NHL and he's now one of our best player. Was drafted in 2011 and played his first full season in 2017. So it took him 6 years !

2010-2014

NHLers: Wood / Severson / Kerfoot / Larsson / Coleman / Merrill

Mehhh: Quenneville / Santini / Boucher

2005-2009

NHLers: Zajac / Henrique

mehh: Josefson / Gelinas / Tedenby / Bergfors / Fayne

 

Again... context. 

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11 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Do you have a source for this? Because he finished out his entire contract with them. 

They had no interest in retaining him. No interest in using him within the organization anywhere regarding any matters of hockey operations. Apparently no other team did either. He came here to do "business development" whatever that even means. He doesn't seem like anybody who is in any kind of demand league wide for his expertise of hockey operations. 

Indeed those would be very tough ties to sever. I just hope he's not granted too much power in terms over overseeing what's going on on the ice

Edited by '7'
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1 minute ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Going from an assistant GM to a front office "marketing" type role seems like a step back to me. Maybe there was no interest around the league, but I find it hard to believe that no one would offer him a job if he was so good at it we are now considering him as a replacement to Shero.

I'm not sure why Marty is being brought up as a potential replacement GM...Fitz is the actual interim GM and who knows if he gets the job (though he sounds like a legit candidate for it).  Dust has to settle on this one.  

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4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i don't quite understand why some are saying that our drafting has been bad. It's so early. And at worst we're on par or better than the decade before Shero took over if you go through our draft history. If we break it down by slices of 5 years. We already all know how bad the drafting was with Conte but it's like we don't hold shero to the same standard for wtv reasons... some blame him for his drafting even if many many players are still developing... Obviously having top picks will make the job way way way easier on you. 

2015-2019 (Shero)

NHLers: Hischier / Bratt / Hughes / Blackwood / Zacha

Jury is still on out: Boqvist / McLeod  / Anderson / Smith

and there’s probably more... let's remember Coleman took a long time to make the NHL and he's now one of our best player. Was drafted in 2011 and played his first full season in 2017. So it took him 6 years !

2010-2014

NHLers: Wood / Severson / Kerfoot / Larsson / Coleman / Merrill

Mehhh: Quenneville / Santini / Boucher

2005-2009

NHLers: Zajac / Henrique

mehh: Josefson / Gelinas / Tedenby / Bergfors / Fayne

 

Again... context. 

If only Lou had 2 #1OA's to pad his resume....

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I don’t really understand the fear that Marty would be hard to replace if it goes south. Again, these owners have no loyalty to him. He never played for them. They’re not fans. They probably wouldn’t even think twice about firing him if they had to. 

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4 minutes ago, aylbert said:

To be fair, Larsson was a lottery pick for us.

yeah and if we didn't win the lottery we might have ended up with Hamilton or Couturier, which in hindsight may or may not have been better. Still all NHLers

The point here is not to bash Lou or wtv. It's just showing that in the last five years we got as many or more NHLers than the previous 2 5 years. Thats it. 

Edited by SterioDesign
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