Daniel Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: i don't quite understand why some are saying that our drafting has been bad. It's so early. And at worst we're on par or better than the decade before Shero took over if you go through our draft history. If we break it down by slices of 5 years. We already all know how bad the drafting was with Conte but it's like we don't hold shero to the same standard for wtv reasons... some blame him for his drafting even if many many players are still developing... Obviously having top picks will make the job way way way easier on you. 2015-2019 (Shero) NHLers: Hischier / Bratt / Hughes / Blackwood / Zacha Jury is still on out: Boqvist / McLeod / Anderson / Smith and there’s probably more... let's remember Coleman took a long time to make the NHL and he's now one of our best player. Was drafted in 2011 and played his first full season in 2017. So it took him 6 years ! 2010-2014 NHLers: Wood / Severson / Kerfoot / Larsson / Coleman / Merrill Mehhh: Quenneville / Santini / Boucher 2005-2009 NHLers: Zajac / Henrique mehh: Josefson / Gelinas / Tedenby / Bergfors / Fayne Again... context. You miss out on the "context" of Shero having two number 1 overalls, number 11 overall and 17 overall. From 2005 through 2014, the Devils had exactly 2 picks higher than 17, one of whom they traded for Cory Schneider. The story now is that Ray Shero got fired, not Lou. So you don't need to keep turning to what the team looked like when Shero got here. Everyone gets it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Daniel said: This sounds like he's the hockey guy that will report to Harris and Blitzer about what's going on and provide either confirmation or rebuttal to the moves that the GM does. Harris and Blitzer know wins and losses and $. Marty knows hockey - they'll use him for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nicomo said: I don’t really understand the fear that Marty would be hard to replace if it goes south. Again, these owners have no loyalty to him. He never played for them. They’re not fans. They probably wouldn’t even think twice about firing him if they had to. One of those guys made an effort to get him back to NJ.(sure as hell wasn't Shero) And not to be Hugh's assistant. They had something in mind more long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Daniel said: You miss out on the "context" of Shero having two number 1 overalls, number 11 overall and 17 overall. From 2005 through 2014, the Devils had exactly 2 picks higher than 17, one of whom they traded for Cory Schneider. The story now is that Ray Shero got fired, not Lou. So you don't need to keep turning to what the team looked like when Shero got here. Everyone gets it. Yup and the other conveniently left out information is that from 2005-2014 we only missed the playoffs in 2011 / 2013 and 2014 and won the division 4 times and made the finals in 2012. Just had to add some even more context to your post. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 20 hours ago, SterioDesign said: Maybe the owners really wanted to tank for Lafreniere and Shero didn't want to put his name on that. I think it is the opposite. Based upon the press conference, it sounds like Ray was ready to break it down and start Rebuild 2.0, while the owners want to win now and aren't ready to wait for another 3-5 years before we can contend for a playoff spot. Basically the exact opposite of trusting the process and what they did with the 76ers. The way they approach the trade deadline will be telling. This is just a mess now. I don't understand not offering Hall any contract at all, allowing Ray to trade him, then firing the guy a few weeks later saying that the team doesn't win enough as the reason for his dismissal. Hall was the best player on this team. If you are going to try to contend in the near term, you need players like him in your lineup. IMO, when Ray came to the owners and said his plan was to trade Hall, that would have been the time to fire him based upon their lame reasoning given in yesterday's press conference. I started watching the Devils in 1985. Maybe its selective memory or the fact that I was young and didn't comprehend or care about the front office stuff, only what was happening on the ice, but while they were bad back then, I don't remember this level of dysfunction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, vadvlfan said: One of those guys made an effort to get him back to NJ.(sure as hell wasn't Shero) And not to be Hugh's assistant. They had something in mind more long term. Sounds like he’s not in the running anyway, so everyone can calm down lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Daniel said: You miss out on the "context" of Shero having two number 1 overalls, number 11 overall and 17 overall. From 2005 through 2014, the Devils had exactly 2 picks higher than 17, one of whom they traded for Cory Schneider. The story now is that Ray Shero got fired, not Lou. So you don't need to keep turning to what the team looked like when Shero got here. Everyone gets it. That's not the point of my post at all. I could of picked any team in the NHL and do the same thing and i'm sure our last 5 years is not that abnormal with the amount of NHLers it produced so far. Here. I randomly picked a team. Took Minny which were always a kind of bubble team in the last 5 years.. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00006879.html last5 years... only a few meh players or players that may develop into something so far drafted. No legit NHLer http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007089.html Rangers... Chytil and Kakko looks like the only good picks so far in the last 5 years http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00006929.html Montreal... Kotkaniemi, sergachev, mete are NHLers... then a few jury is still out in the last 5... http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007439.html philly... Hart, Farabe, Patrick, provorov, konecny then a bunch of maybes in the last 5 years... Go check for yourself. Look at any slice of 5 years for any teams and ours really doesn't look terrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: i don't quite understand why some are saying that our drafting has been bad. It's so early. And at worst we're on par or better than the decade before Shero took over if you go through our draft history. If we break it down by slices of 5 years. We already all know how bad the drafting was with Conte but it's like we don't hold shero to the same standard for wtv reasons... some blame him for his drafting even if many many players are still developing... Obviously having top picks will make the job way way way easier on you. 2015-2019 (Shero) NHLers: Hischier / Bratt / Hughes / Blackwood / Zacha Jury is still on out: Boqvist / McLeod / Anderson / Smith and there’s probably more... let's remember Coleman took a long time to make the NHL and he's now one of our best player. Was drafted in 2011 and played his first full season in 2017. So it took him 6 years ! 2010-2014 NHLers: Wood / Severson / Kerfoot / Larsson / Coleman / Merrill Mehhh: Quenneville / Santini / Boucher 2005-2009 NHLers: Zajac / Henrique mehh: Josefson / Gelinas / Tedenby / Bergfors / Fayne Again... context. Since you’re a proponent of context , a lot of those 2005-2014 picks were late round because the team was usually in the playoffs. I'm pretty sure if you took a cross section of lets say the 21st or 25th overall pick every year the rate of success is probably going to be pretty similar. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: Since you’re a proponent of context , a lot of those 2005-2014 picks were late round because the team was usually in the playoffs. I'm pretty sure if you took a cross section of lets say the 21st or 25th overall pick every year the rate of success is probably going to be pretty similar. Well that's my point. To show that our rate right now is pretty average and not bad. I even gave multiple other teams with similar or worst last 5 years... to compare ours to. I just compared it to other 5 years slices. If everyone would stop taking my posts as if my intend was to bash lou it would actually be amazing. Edited January 13, 2020 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, SterioDesign said: Well that's my point. To show that our rate right now is pretty average and not bad. I even gave multiple other teams with similar or worst last 5 years... to compare ours to. I just compared it to other 5 years slices. If everyone would stop taking my posts as if my intend was to bash lou it would actually be amazing. Maybe if you didn't use all of your posts to compare Ray to Lou people wouldn't take them that way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: Maybe if you didn't use all of your posts to compare Ray to Lou people wouldn't take them that way. Well tell me how to respond to someone who blames Shero for having a sh!t roster in first few seasons without bringing up what he started with? How is that even possible? Edited January 13, 2020 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Nicomo said: Again, would it really be any worse than this... Man that's one hell of an impressive photoshop, almost had me going for a second there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: Well tell me how to respond to someone who blames Shero for having a sh!t roster in first few seasons without bringing up what he started with? How is that even possible? Nobody is talking about his first few years. They’re talking about the current team that is overwhelmingly his guys, and is in last place. Again... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Chuck the Duck said: I think it is the opposite. Based upon the press conference, it sounds like Ray was ready to break it down and start Rebuild 2.0, while the owners want to win now and aren't ready to wait for another 3-5 years before we can contend for a playoff spot. Basically the exact opposite of trusting the process and what they did with the 76ers. The way they approach the trade deadline will be telling. This is just a mess now. I don't understand not offering Hall any contract at all, allowing Ray to trade him, then firing the guy a few weeks later saying that the team doesn't win enough as the reason for his dismissal. Hall was the best player on this team. If you are going to try to contend in the near term, you need players like him in your lineup. IMO, when Ray came to the owners and said his plan was to trade Hall, that would have been the time to fire him based upon their lame reasoning given in yesterday's press conference. I started watching the Devils in 1985. Maybe its selective memory or the fact that I was young and didn't comprehend or care about the front office stuff, only what was happening on the ice, but while they were bad back then, I don't remember this level of dysfunction. I think for me the worst was in 2014... We had a terrible roster, old and slow, we were obviously not good enough to make it to the next level, we had no prospects or long-term plan to look forward to, no-core players to build around, most of our players we're retiring soon and we had no idea how we'd replace them cause we didn't have prospects that could do the job, we had to throw horrible contracts to patch holes. We signed Cammalleri, Havlat, Clemmenson, tootoo and fvcking Gomez lol Some "paper moves" went bad when Elias came back from injury and had to be taken off the injury list but we were above the limit or something and we had to play a game down a man, could only dress 11 forwards. I've never seen that in my entire life. Then Deboer was fired and replaced by the 3 headed headcoaching staff of Stevens, Oat and Lou... i mean jesus christ, that's a mickey mouse organization right there. We had nothing to be excited for in the moment and absolutely nothing to look forward to. Corey Schneider was our only bright light... and that's even sadder to think about that now lol God knows if we'll have success with this group but at least now we have a young group of talented players to build around edit: ugh i was just reminded that 2014 is the year we got Quenneville out of not giving up a fvcking 30th pick when it was the best possible scenario for us. Yeah fvck that year. Edited January 13, 2020 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: Well tell me how to respond to someone who blames Shero for having a sh!t roster in first few seasons without bringing up what he started with? How is that even possible? Just as soon as someone mentions his first few years I will. This is 2020. This is not the first few years anymore. Before Ray was fired, he was trading away the same players he brought in to fix things. It was just constant rebuilding 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nicomo said: Nobody is talking about his first few years. They’re talking about the current team that is overwhelmingly his guys, and is in last place. Again... That's not true at all. Many posters are going for the "1 playoffs appearance in 5 years to show for". Off the top of my head Satan Devils or wtv what his name is posted exactly that plus a breakdown of the result of every seasons yesterday. Early this season we had an incredible amount of young guys, new guys, we were getting teeeerrible goaltending, a leader with a foot out the door and a coach who couldnt get anything out of his players anymore. I think the way we've been playing lately is a better representation of what this team should be... which in my opinion would be a bubble team at best. Just look at Florida the year we made the playoffs... they missed the playoffs cause they dug themselves a huge hole early in the season. By the end of the season they were one of the best team in the league but still missed the playoffs... right now we're better than the position we're in. You can't just look at results like that. But we may be this bad depending on his we're selling some of our guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazer Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I agree not giving up the 30th pick or wtv for matteu was one of the dumbest moves to this day, maybe lou knew kovy was walking and thought he needs another body , i have no idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, lazer said: I agree not giving up the 30th pick or wtv for matteu was one of the dumbest moves to this day, maybe lou knew kovy was walking and thought he needs another body , i have no idea. omg you're right that was 2014 too..... ughhh yeah by far the worst year as a Devils fan for me lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: That's not true at all. Many posters are going for the "1 playoffs appearance in 5 years to show for". Off the top of my head Satan Devils or wtv what his name is posted exactly that plus a breakdown of the result of every seasons yesterday. Early this season we had an incredible amount of young guys, new guys, we were getting teeeerrible goaltending, a leader with a foot out the door and a coach who couldnt get anything out of his players anymore. I think the way we've been playing lately is a better representation of what this team should be... which in my opinion would be a bubble team at best. Just look at Florida the year we made the playoffs... they missed the playoffs cause they dug themselves a huge hole early in the season. By the end of the season they were one of the best team in the league but still missed the playoffs... right now we're better than the position we're in. You can't just look at results like that. But we may be this bad depending on his we're selling some of our guys No one was expecting a Stanley Cup, but finishing better than 7th or 8th in an 8 team division after 5 years isn't asking for a ton. This isn't Montreal or Toronto. If a team isn't winning down here, no ones buying tickets. Some of these owners don't want to or can't wait 8-10 years and hope it works out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 What about Hextall ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: No one was expecting a Stanley Cup, but finishing better than 7th or 8th in an 8 team division after 5 years isn't asking for a ton. This isn't Montreal or Toronto. If a team isn't winning down here, no ones buying tickets. Some of these owners don't want to or can't wait 8-10 years and hope it works out. Yeah but how 'bout the fact that we made the playoffs in year 3? Which was an absolute miracle. We overachieved for sure but that's still clear progress. Then the next year our MVP and a bunch of players got injured and that this year started badly but we're competing with any team now. I don't think we're beating any top teams like we did any day of the week but we can finally say that we have a group that proved he can "compete" vs the mess earlier this season That's all stuff we need to look at. And NOBODY wants to wait 8-10 years to see their team winning. But sometimes that's what its going to take. There's always a reason to not be happy. The Leafs have a powerhouse on paper right now... if they don't make it past the first round soon you can be sure heads will roll... but that's obviously not on the GM, Lou too. They build a very strong team on paper and brought in proven coaches. They just didnt get it done so far and they might not. Just like the Sharks and just like many playoffs team who were never able to get to the next level. There's never any guarantee Edited January 13, 2020 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: Yeah but how 'bout the fact that we made the playoffs in year 3? Which was an absolute miracle. We overachieved for sure but that's still clear progress. Then the next year our MVP and a bunch of players got injured and that this year started badly but we're competing with any team now. I don't think we're beating any top teams like we did any day of the week but we can finally say that we have a group that proved he can "compete" vs the mess earlier this season That's all stuff we need to look at. And NOBODY wants to wait 8-10 years to see their team winning. But sometimes that's what its going to take. There's always a reason to not be happy. The Leafs have a powerhouse on paper right now... if they don't make it past the first round soon you can be sure heads will roll... but that's obviously not on the GM, Lou too. They build a very strong team on paper and brought in proven coaches. They just didnt get it done so far and they might not. Just like the Sharks and just like many playoffs team who were never able to get to the next level. There's never any guarantee It literally took Hall having an MVP year along with KK having the best 35-40 game stretch of his entire career to stagger across the finish line of the playoffs in the second to last game of the season. We then got smoked in 5 games in the playoffs. It was fun for sure, but I think calling it true "progress" is a bit of a stretch. I am seeing it as more of a fluke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, moustic said: What about Hextall ? That would go over well lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Chuck the Duck said: I think it is the opposite. Based upon the press conference, it sounds like Ray was ready to break it down and start Rebuild 2.0, while the owners want to win now and aren't ready to wait for another 3-5 years before we can contend for a playoff spot. Basically the exact opposite of trusting the process and what they did with the 76ers. The way they approach the trade deadline will be telling. This is just a mess now. I don't understand not offering Hall any contract at all, allowing Ray to trade him, then firing the guy a few weeks later saying that the team doesn't win enough as the reason for his dismissal. Hall was the best player on this team. If you are going to try to contend in the near term, you need players like him in your lineup. IMO, when Ray came to the owners and said his plan was to trade Hall, that would have been the time to fire him based upon their lame reasoning given in yesterday's press conference. I started watching the Devils in 1985. Maybe its selective memory or the fact that I was young and didn't comprehend or care about the front office stuff, only what was happening on the ice, but while they were bad back then, I don't remember this level of dysfunction. Well they were run by one guy with an iron fist for three decades so no there wasn't this amount of disfunction. Lou being fired for Shero was a smoother transition than these dual coach/GM firings six weeks apart lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: It literally took Hall having an MVP year along with KK having the best 35-40 game stretch of his entire career to stagger across the finish line of the playoffs in the second to last game of the season. We then got smoked in 5 games in the playoffs. It was fun for sure, but I think calling it true "progress" is a bit of a stretch. I am seeing it as more of a fluke. We took an old and over the hill group with no core players at all and made the playoffs 3 years later with a young core we can build around. That's progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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