devlman Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: But I have yet to see them mandate a tank with the Devils. If they wanted to interfere, they could (as some meddlesome owners can and will). They could've easily forced the coaching staff to play Schneider over Blackwood (hey, we're paying him, he needs to play)...but they allowed him to be mothballed in the minors for a while, while the clearly better player in Mac was allowed to play. They could've held Shero back from making obvious "Let's get better NOW" moves this past offseason, and found a GM to sell off as many useful assets as possible (like Palms and some others). You've seen what teams that are purposely tanking will do...look at last season's Dolphins. That's not happening here. Like I said, you have more a series of moves that didn't pay off as hoped, and a franchise that simply does what so many others do when their team is not anywhere near being in a playoff hunt, in what's very much become a defined "Buyer/Seller" market. I’m not criticizing them for being sellers at all. But here’s the thing, last off-season’s moves probably convinced them, like it did all of us, that we could be contenders for a playoff spot. That’s why they approved them (that, and being dead last in cap spend). It wasn’t their idea or credit for them, it was Shero’s. However, once it became clear that we would again suck, Shero was out. Shero likely stayed with Hynes as long as he did because he thought we were close and wasn’t going to rebuild from scratch. The owners’ firing of him and sanctioning of sell-offs not only showed accountability for results but also that they were fine with going for another high lotto pick. There’s also the game of public perception. They’ve alread gained the reputation in the NBA world for being shameless tankers, imagine if they publicly demonstrated they’d want to do the same in the NHL. The firing of Shero has been the closest they’ve come to a public signal that they prefer rebuilds over retools. Your Schneider point I don’t have a rebuttal for. Can’t explain that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 The current team outside of 3-4 players is compete and utter sh!t. They absolutely need a rebuild rather than a retool. Shero built a house of cards going into this season that collapsed almost immediately. His delay in addressing it and/or having no contingency plan is what sunk him. This season is on Shero, not the owners. The one point I will agree on against the owners is if they fall prey to the advanced stat crowd and their nonsense. From what we have been reading, they seem to have the owners ear. If that is the case I may just check out while we accumulate the Beau Bennett's of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, devlman said: I’m not criticizing them for being sellers at all. But here’s the thing, last off-season’s moves probably convinced them, like it did all of us, that we could be contenders for a playoff spot. That’s why they approved them (that, and being dead last in cap spend). It wasn’t their idea or credit for them, it was Shero’s. However, once it became clear that we would again suck, Shero was out. Shero likely stayed with Hynes as long as he did because he thought we were close and wasn’t going to rebuild from scratch. The owners’ firing of him and sanctioning of sell-offs not only showed accountability for results but also that they were fine with going for another high lotto pick. There’s also the game of public perception. They’ve alread gained the reputation in the NBA world for being shameless tankers, imagine if they publicly demonstrated they’d want to do the same in the NHL. The firing of Shero has been the closest they’ve come to a public signal that they prefer rebuilds over retools. Your Schneider point I don’t have a rebuttal for. Can’t explain that. Comparing the NBA to the NHL will never work, from an apples-to-apples comparison. Teams are built much differently in the NBA. You're trying to make an unfair link to prove a point. The owners do get credit for allowing Shero to spend in the first place. Devils could've been much closer to the floor if that's what the owners wanted. You can cheap out very easily if you truly want to tank. You don't take on $27 million on a potentially almost impossible-to-move contract in PK's if you're truly in tank mode...absolutely no reason to. You can overpay a mehish defenseman for one or two years instead. Shero clearly thought a lot of Hynes...probably too much. Definitely factored in heavily in Shero's downfall. What's funny about what you're saying is that I think what cost Shero his job was actually quite the opposite. I think he was trying to sell ownership on another rebuild, and after Shero had been given five years to build a team and had made moves that were supposed to move the train forward, they didn't want to hear that. I think they don't want to go through another rebuild at all. Give me one sell-off this season that made sense to keep: Hall? Once it was clear that he wasn't going to re-sign, what other choice did Shero have but to move him? He couldn't possibly take a Tavares-type gamble. And to Shero's credit, he didn't fvck around...with a guy who's injury-prone and soon-to-be-UFA, that's what you do...trade him before he gets hurt and you're then stuck with him. I think Shero got a pretty good return. Greene? Aging and his best seasons were clearly behind him. UFA-to-be. Who wouldn't take a second-rounder for him? Coleman? I liked him a lot, but the return was just too damned good to pass up. To put it another way...if I had heard that Fitz had turned that offer DOWN, part of me definitely would've wondered if he'd made a mistake. Vats? Devils at least got an interesting young piece for him, and wasn't even able to hit the ice at the time of the deal. I like Vats, but he's a guy who's ripe to be overpaid as a UFA. And as we've seen, he misses plenty of games. Simmonds? Didn't work out, wasn't going to be back. Might as well get what you can. Domingue? He got some mileage out of being not-Cory, but that was about it. Some good moments and many more not-so-good ones. If a guy like Hischier or Blackwood had been traded (or Blackwood wasn't being given as much of an opportunity as he has the last season+), you'd have a much better case for ownership supporting tanking. But the only guys who were sold off were ones that made perfect sense to sell off (even if it hurt a little to see Coleman go). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) Let me make clear, I fully support the offloading moves we’ve made. There was no point to keeping a Greene or a Vats and not building around our youthful core with similarly-aged players. But why was firing Shero necessary given his rebuild wasn’t complete and ready for judgment? Why couldn’t he be left to execute these offloading deals being the infamous trader that he is? It’s like the owners were somehow punishing him for accelerating the rebuild with the Subban, Gusev, Simmonds deals. If the owners thought we were a playoff team because of those deals then they’re truly lacking in the hockey knowledge dept. Rather, I think they resented the accelerated moves and approved them reluctantly and with a short leash. They didn’t want Shero hanging on to anyone. Their methodology would have been to keep stockpiling picks the whole time. It makes sense NOW, but I believe this has and is their approach to sports. Again, the conjecture for this is based on the firing of Ray (timing, communication around it, actual decision itself). Edited March 31, 2020 by devlman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Domingue? He got some mileage out of being not-Cory, but that was about it. Some good moments and many more not-so-good ones. Earned a meme in the shortest tenure possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 hours ago, devlman said: I’m not criticizing them for being sellers at all. But here’s the thing, last off-season’s moves probably convinced them, like it did all of us, that we could be contenders for a playoff spot. That’s why they approved them (that, and being dead last in cap spend). It wasn’t their idea or credit for them, it was Shero’s. However, once it became clear that we would again suck, Shero was out. Shero likely stayed with Hynes as long as he did because he thought we were close and wasn’t going to rebuild from scratch. The owners’ firing of him and sanctioning of sell-offs not only showed accountability for results but also that they were fine with going for another high lotto pick. There’s also the game of public perception. They’ve alread gained the reputation in the NBA world for being shameless tankers, imagine if they publicly demonstrated they’d want to do the same in the NHL. The firing of Shero has been the closest they’ve come to a public signal that they prefer rebuilds over retools. Your Schneider point I don’t have a rebuttal for. Can’t explain that. I think Shero stuck with Hynes cause he felt the record was a bit unfair to him. Goaltending was the big reason this team kept blowing leads. Which was not Hynes fault if they had to give Schneider a chance for contract reason and also cause he did show some promise the year before. And Blackwood then didnt find his groove either. So Hynes was thrown in there with 2 goalies not stopping beach balls. Obviously that's going to affect your results so i think he didnt want to fault him for what was not his fault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 The team needed a hard reset. I think ownership failed to do that fully by keeping Hynes’ protege as the coach and Shero’s as the GM. At this point, keep the RFA’s, and a veteran or two, and burn it all down. I’ll add, trading Hall, Vatanen, Simmonds and Domingue were not for the purpose of tanking. We were finishing in the bottom third and out of the playoffs for certain, that’s when you get rid of free agents who aren’t going to re-sign, or who you don’t want to re-sign. If whoever was in charge (Shero then my dad) didn’t make those deals, they should have been immediately fired. What would be the point of letting all of those contracts expire while missing the playoffs by a mile? And Coleman we know, they offered a good deal on him because he had that extra year getting paid nothing. I have no problem with any of the above moves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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