Nicomo Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: Sorry but anyone ignoring context when looking at any results doesn't know what they are doing. At any level and at anything in life. Do you think you always look at the context in a fair and unbiased way wrt Lou, Pk, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said: Nah you just still always think you're smarter than you actually are but please give us a some long ass analogy yet again comparing how Shero only dated his gf for 5 years but didn't get a chance to propose yet because he was waiting for another 5 years before actually doing anything or some nonsense bullsh!t like you normally do. If your smart explain me how Shero or any GM was supposed to make a better team than what we have in only 5 years, based on what we started with. I'll be waiting. But of course your answer will be something like "wtv that's not my job to figure that out! just get better!" lol But honestly, tell me how it would have been possible realistically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, Rob_Ottawa said: Does this mean we can stop searching through the penguin refuse pile now? Let's distance ourselves completely from sh!ttsburgh. Well other than they just handed the reigns to Shero's shadow at least for now. Maybe when and if he's moved out and the toliet is flush in it's entirety behind the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, HellOnICE said: Very thoughtful post. Hasn’t thought of it this way. Is the improvement in play an indictment? It could be an indictment both on waiting to fire Hynes and on rushing to cash out Hall in December. People can look at it as we (specifically Nico) have improved without the distraction but the owners could look at that and say if we still had him maybe we'd have the firepower to make a more sustained run. Not saying that's correct but owners don't usually buy the whole trade your best player and improve 'because of it' meme. Edited January 13, 2020 by NJDevs4978 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs3cups Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 To be honest I'm comfortable with Fitz as GM right now and I ultimately wouldn't mind if the owners gave him the job moving forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, SterioDesign said: If your smart explain me how Shero or any GM was supposed to make a better team than what we have in only 5 years, based on what we started with. I'll be waiting. But of course your answer will be something like "wtv that's not my job to figure that out! just get better!" lol But honestly, tell me how it would have been possible realistically Firing Hynes sooner would be top of the list, no? same thing that did him in in Pittsburgh. Do you think it’s not even remotely possible a better coach might have got better results, developed players quicker, etc? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, SterioDesign said: If your smart explain me how Shero or any GM was supposed to make a better team than what we have in only 5 years, based on what we started with. I'll be waiting. But of course your answer will be something like "wtv that's not my job to figure that out! just get better!" lol But honestly, tell me how it would have been possible realistically Minus Nico and Hughes is this team really any better off than it was 5 years ago?...... Because it's not. On pace to finish last place in the division yet again with no signs of improvement. I'm not asking to be a Stanley cup winner from 5 years ago to now. I'm asking to see signs of improvement. There haven't been any besides some draft lotto wins. If Lou (who deserved to get fired too) got 5 more years and had the same results you would be screaming about how he deserves to be fired. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, Nicomo said: Do you think you always look at the context in a fair and unbiased way wrt Lou, Pk, etc? I'm at least trying, when PK was traded here. Everyone was surprised how well i took it and even commented about it. I was not happy but i said it was a probably good move on paper for the team, especially getting that deal. As for Lou well there's a long history but i legit just did. I could follow my narrative blindly that he's always letting top players walk and say that he failed to re-sign Tavares too (that'd be doing EXACTLY what im calling out... looking at results and making a statement based on just that) but nope, less than an hour ago i said that Lou couldn't re-sign Tavares but that it was obviously not his fault in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, Nicomo said: Firing Hynes sooner would be top of the list, no? same thing that did him in in Pittsburgh. Do you think it’s not even remotely possible a better coach might have got better results, developed players quicker, etc? yeah thats fair about the coaching. I can blame Shero for that and for Hall... but with Hall there is context that makes it tricky. We all know i always want a GM to sign his top free agent before the season and not during the season or after, obviously. And i wish Shero could have done that with Hall but it was a very very tricky situation this time so unless i'd know 100% what happened it's hard to really call that one. When i'm saying within a specific window that it was impossible to get that much better is based on players we acquired and developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: you know who doesnt understand hockey when they just give you a straight stat or result to support their argument and ignore context completely lol Right, not even a girlfriend analogy!! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, Nicomo said: Please stop saying people don’t understand hockey. It’s incredibly condescending and rude. I’m pretty sure everyone that posts here has a basic understanding of the game. I know you’re pissed about your boy, but no need to lash out at people. This x1000. The "smartest guy in the room" schtick is old. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 It's really just luck, isn't it? If we drafted a Crosby or McDavid with either of our 1OAs we're probably sitting here worshipping the ground Shero walks on. Instead, we didn't get a generational talent and the rest of our kids haven't taken major steps forward at this time. So, Shero looks bad and the team still sucks. I won't miss Shero's pressers, I'll tell you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, devlman said: You can’t be evaluating this season strictly based on points when we are REBUILDING. That's the thing, ownership wasn't expecting to rebuild THIS year. You don't take on $27 million with Subban and increase payroll near the cap for kicks. Having a worse record than Lou's last year absolutely speaks badly of Shero. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said: Minus Nico and Hughes is this team really any better off than it was 5 years ago?...... Because it's not. On pace to finish last place in the division yet again with no signs of improvement. I'm not asking to be a Stanley cup winner from 5 years ago to now. I'm asking to see signs of improvement. There haven't been any besides some draft lotto wins. If Lou (who deserved to get fired too) got 5 more years and had the same results you would be screaming about how he deserves to be fired. omg... 1- We made the playoffs within 3 years... that's straight up improvement. We then were injured and took a step back but its still better than 2015. 2- we have a young team and a core we can build around. Not the oldest and slowest team in the nhl, filled with over-the-hill vets that will be retired within the next 5 years and Reid Boucher as our top prospect. 3- Since 2015... every season our top player got more than 42 points... that's improvement. 4- We have assets to potentially trade for players. 5- We have players we KNOW will improve. 6- we have young players doing well in juniors, we didn't even have that in 2015 we had no players in the world juniors this mentality is like cutting a bunch of old trees around your house cause they were all fvcked... planting new seeds... and whining after 5 years that the new trees are not giving you enough shades... that the old dying trees were actually better. lol NO. you gotta let the new trees grow so they'll be there for decades. I truly don't think i'm smart cause this is all really not complicated to understand at all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Nicomo said: As I’ve said multiple times I did like Shero, and I wasn’t even close to being ready to replace him, but I do understand why this happened. I’m at the point it didn’t really piss me off. Which is telling. I think if you’re being objective you can admit if you take Nico and Hughes out of the picture our future would be looking very grim. Shero did some good things, it just wasn’t quite enough. Yep and it was getting to the point where all the things Shero 'did' (Hall, Vat, Palm) were going to be dealt off for more futures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, NJDevs4978 said: That's the thing, ownership wasn't expecting to rebuild THIS year. You don't take on $27 million with Subban and increase payroll near the cap for kicks. Having a worse record than Lou's last year absolutely speaks badly of Shero. Yeah but I’m sure they didn’t think they were cup contenders either. Reaching the playoffs was no guarantee. Shero made the right moves though, we all praised him for it. Not his fault PK, Schneids, Hall, et al all underperformed. Don’t fire the guy for making the right moves. The coach was fired, Hall was dealt and the team has been making real strides. So your move as an owner is to then fire the GM? Makes no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said: That's the thing, ownership wasn't expecting to rebuild THIS year. You don't take on $27 million with Subban and increase payroll near the cap for kicks. Having a worse record than Lou's last year absolutely speaks badly of Shero. I think the fact that the team has someone like Fitzgerald -- who could be the GM on a lot of teams -- made it easier to do it now. He was basically the coach for a few weeks, seems to be much more tuned in to the nitty gritty of scouting and just what's been going on on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikepeluso8 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: Sorry but anyone ignoring context when looking at any results doesn't know what they are doing. At any level and at anything in life. even at walmart, where you work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, devlman said: Yeah but I’m sure they didn’t think they were cup contenders either. Reaching the playoffs was no guarantee. Shero made the right moves though, we all praised him for it. Not his fault PK, Schneids, Hall, et al all underperformed. Don’t fire the guy for making the right moves. The coach was fired, Hall was dealt and the team has been making real strides. So your move as an owner is to then fire the GM? Makes no sense to me. They didn't think the season would be over by Halloween and they'd have to give away tickets by Thanksgiving. I mean frigging everything looks bad at this point. It looks bad he extends Hynes after one losing season then has to fire him less than a year later then he gets picked up quickly by a quality organization, it looks bad he cashes out on the season and trades Hall in December then they go on a run with a new staff, it looks bad Lou's got the Isles as a contender two years running after losing their best player while Shero's puttering around with the process, it looks bad most of our non-lotto ball prospects have plateaued, it looks bad the team's still on pace for one of their worst-ever seasons after trying to be more relevant and it smells when rumors of trading your All-Star and a popular Jersey kid start popping up with Politi insinuating Shero was sniffing around the trade market. Edited January 13, 2020 by NJDevs4978 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, mikepeluso8 said: even at walmart, where you work? Well if this was a joke it's incredibly not funny lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazer Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Rob_Ottawa said: Does this mean we can stop searching through the penguin refuse pile now? Let's distance ourselves completely from sh!ttsburgh. right, no more pens 2.0 thought shero had a longer leash so must have been over something specific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLinfante Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 People have already mentioned it, but given the Athletic article that came out late last week, I can't help but feel that this has something to do with trading Palms (or not trading him, as the case may be). That kind of move involving a scorer who still has another year of reasonable money on his deal is probably made for a high end prospect and a pick, not for anything that will help win now or even next year. I'm not even sure which side of the table Shero might have been on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if that type of discussion is the one that lead to ownership moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said: It's really just luck, isn't it? If we drafted a Crosby or McDavid with either of our 1OAs we're probably sitting here worshipping the ground Shero walks on. Instead, we didn't get a generational talent and the rest of our kids haven't taken major steps forward at this time. So, Shero looks bad and the team still sucks. I won't miss Shero's pressers, I'll tell you that. Nah, Chiarelli still got fired even after being lucky enough to land McDavid. It takes more than a couple great players. Hockey isn’t basketball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said: They didn't think the season would be over by Halloween and they'd have to give away tickets by Thanksgiving. I mean frigging everything looks bad at this point. It looks bad he extends Hynes after one losing season then has to fire him less than a year later then he gets picked up quickly by a quality organization, it looks bad he cashes out on the season and trades Hall in December then they go on a run with a new staff, it looks bad Lou's got the Isles as a contender two years running after losing their best player while Shero's puttering around with the process, it looks bad most of our non-lotto ball prospects have plateaued, it looks bad the team's still on pace for one of their worst-ever seasons after trying to be more relevant and it smells when rumors of trading your All-Star and a popular Jersey kid start popping up with Politi insinuating Shero was sniffing around the trade market. I don’t agree with a few of these but if you’re a smart billionaire owner your major decisions should be made beyond optics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) I actually don't mind that much not having Shero i guess. All i wanted in a GM was one that didn't handle free agency and the long-term of his team like Lou was... and well... that's basically any GM but Lou lol So it should be fine. When it comes to trades and drafting... you win some, lose some... luck go your way and against you no matter who you are. I'm legit scared after hearing the owner clearly not understanding the process... Edited January 13, 2020 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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