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Ray Shero and Devils Part Ways Effective Immediately


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2 hours ago, themightyall said:

I gave up on this website because how pro the ownership they were and randomly looked to see what people said with this.  Only @dvelman is making sense.  This ownership is a dumpster fire.  They don't know how to build a team.

 

At least on topic:  What did Shero do that made this team ostensibly better?  He tanked his way to some draft picks; anyone can do that.

 

All you have to do is look at the 6ers.  This ownership takes a GM to follow tanking to build talent.  That GM knew how to build it up and then they fire them because of whatever reason good or bad (you think 6ers fans aren't saying the exact same thing you did a few years ago with Hinke?).  This ownership doesn't want to win; they want to tease winning. 

You literally complain that Shero did nothing but tank in this post then complain about the owners who just fired the guy who did nothing but tank. If they were content with tanking they could have just left Shero in then.

Firing the coach and GM in the same season sure as hell doesn't tease winning anytime soon even if it needed to be done. 

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1 hour ago, devlman said:

"A great leader isn't with us anymore and he's the reason we're all in this room, and we owe him a ton of credit for the job he did and obviously the future is extremely bright here thanks to Ray Shero.”

- Blake Coleman

When's the last time an NHL player said "that guy sucked and deserved to be fired" lol

The vast majority of these guys say the right things, whether they are true or not

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I'm still happy with this move. I also don't think I said a bad thing about Ray before this season. He lost me completely this season when he gave Hynes and Cory way too long of a leash. Hynes should have been fired last year.

It sure is interesting to see so many saying that it could be oh so much worse with other GMs when we have finished...

2015-16 - 7th out of 8 in the division

2016-17 - 8th out of 8 in the division 

2017- 18 - 4th out of 8 in the division with a one of a kind mvp season by Hall which still barely got us into the playoffs before getting crushed by Tampa in 5

2018-19 - 8th out of 8 in the division 

2019-20 - are on pace for 8th out of 8 in the division when the firing took place.

Doesn't get much lower than that. Last in the division 3 out of the 5 years and only 1 playoff appearance with 1 measly playoff game win.

Can't say I'm really concerned that someone can do much worse than that in a 5 year stretch. It's really not a high bar to beat. 

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I guess depending on what's happening in the next few months... we'll automatically know what direction the owners wanted and what direction Shero wanted...

But i guess it's not hard to guess that the owners want to win now and Shero was willing to be patient making sure to make the right steps at the right time to build an actual team that could win a cup, not only a team able to make the playoffs.

Which is scary cause making win-now moves if you're not ready usually translate into sacrificing the future, taking a step back or getting stuck being a perennial bubble team not able to get to the next level.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

I'm still happy with this move. I also don't think I said a bad thing about Ray before this season. He lost me completely this season when he gave Hynes and Cory way too long of a leash. Hynes should have been fired last year.

It sure is interesting to see so many saying that it could be oh so much worse with other GMs when we have finished...

2015-16 - 7th out of 8 in the division

2016-17 - 8th out of 8 in the division

2017- 18 - 4th out of 8 in the division with a one of a kind mvp season by Hall which still barely got us into the playoffs before getting crushed by Tampa in 5

2018-19 - 8th out of 8 in the division 

2019-20 - are on pace for 8th out of 8 in the division when the firing took place.

Doesn't get much lower than that. Last in the division 3 out of the 5 years and only 1 playoff appearance with 1 measly playoff game win.

Can't say I'm really concerned that someone can do much worse than that in a 5 year stretch. It's really not a high bar to beat. 

You know that no GM given this sh!t roster and no prospects or assets with any value for trades could have done much better in only 5 years right? 

You do understand the first few seasons were about getting rid of the deadweight, getting rid of the bad contracts and building a young core that could eventually win a cup. Then most players you draft takes a few years to make the NHL and have an impact. 

Honestly what's so hard to understand here? LOOK AT THIS GODDAMN ROSTER!!! Our top scorer had 42 pts the year before Shero took over and they were all seconds away from retiring, with no prospects to take over !!! Not a single core player you can build around in there either.

How can anyone point out to the first few seasons with Shero and blame him is mindblowing to me. What Shero is leaving to the next GM is a LOT better than what he got when he came in

 

Cammalleri (33) - Henrique (25) - Jagr (43)

Ryder (35) - Zajac (29) - Brunner (29)

Elias (39) - Gomez (34) - Zubrus (37)

Tootoo (32) - Josefon (24) - Bernier (30)

Ryder (35) - Gionta (32) - Havlat (34) - Ruutu (32)

 

Greene (33) - Larsson (23)

Zidlicky (38) - Merrill (23)

Severson (21) - Salvador (39)

Gelinas (24) - Harrold (32)

 

Schneider (29)

Kinkaid (26)

Edited by SterioDesign
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One can argue either way on Ray.  I think he was was a bit unlucky that some of his moves that looked very good on paper didn’t pan out - like Mojo, Grabner a few more come to mind. You’d think that they all needed to pan out in order for this franchise to either have won a playoff series by virtue of getting a higher seed (they sure weren’t Tampa-level) or be much better team last 1.5 years. 

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1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

You know that no GM given this sh!t roster and no prospects or assets with any value for trades could have done much better in only 5 years right? 

You do understand the first few seasons were about getting rid of the deadweight, getting rid of the bad contracts and building a young core that could eventually win a cup. Then most players you draft takes a few years to make the NHL and have an impact. 

Honestly what's so hard to understand here? LOOK AT THIS GODDAMN ROSTER!!! Our top scorer had 42 pts the year before Shero took over and they were all seconds away from retiring, with no prospects to take over !!! Not a single core player you can build around in there either.

How can anyone point out to the first few seasons with Shero and blame him is mindblowing to me. What Shero is leaving to the next GM is a LOT better than what he got when he came in

 

Cammalleri (33) - Henrique (25) - Jagr (43)

Ryder (35) - Zajac (29) - Brunner (29)

Elias (39) - Gomez (34) - Zubrus (37)

Tootoo (32) - Josefon (24) - Bernier (30)

Ryder (35) - Gionta (32) - Havlat (34) - Ruutu (32)

 

Greene (33) - Larsson (23)

Zidlicky (38) - Merrill (23)

Severson (21) - Salvador (39)

Gelinas (24) - Harrold (32)

 

Schneider (29)

Kinkaid (26)

We don't have a single goal scorer that has hit 20 goals yet and our highest scorer has 31 points. 

I've clearly stated that Lou deserved to be fired and that I agree he left this team in rough shape but last season and this current season have been absolutely disasters and someone has to be held responsible for it. Ray showed he isn't the guy to turn this around when he didn't fire his buddy Hynes last season. 

I'd rather not wait another 5 years to see what Ray might do with this team. When is the Lou excuse going to die off since the team barely has anyone left from that era? 

From tonight's game but what has basically been the same roster as last season and we have barely any Lou leftovers. When does that well excuse finally run dry when Sheros roster that is mainly made up of his own guys that finished dead last in the division last year and were on pace to do so again this year at the time of his firing? 

We have 6 of Lou's leftovers left and Cory barely counts anymore and Coleman is our second highest goal scorer and our hardest competing guy every game...

Zacha (Shero) Nico (Shero) Bratt (Shero)

Coleman (Lou) Zajac (Lou) Guzev (Shero) 

Wood (Lou) Hughes (Shero) Simmonds (Shero) 

Boquist (Shero) Rooney (Shero) Hayden (Shero) 

Greene (Lou) Subban (Shero) 

Severson (Lou) Vatanan (Shero) 

Butcher (Shero) Carrick (Shero) 

Domingue (Shero) Cory (Lou) 

Scratches

Palms (Shero)

Mueller (Shero)

Blackwood (Shero) 

Edited by Satans Hockey
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7 hours ago, HellOnICE said:

Very thoughtful post. Hasn’t thought of it this way. Is the improvement in play an indictment?

It has to have factored in. 

I mean we could all see they this team was going nowhere under Hynes at least a month before he was let go, if not longer. 

If I was the owners and I saw the up turn in play after such a straight forward decision I would certainly be thinking "ok why didn't we try this when there was still a season to be played". Ray left it to the point where it basically became impossible to salvage the season. 

Ownership are recieving a lot of stick for the timing of this, but I think if they were going to part ways at the end of the season then they are better doing it now before Ray has the chance to make more changes. 

The decision seems to have been made a lot easier by having Fitz on board. The guy was basically touted to take over somewhere every time there was a GM vacancy. He has been directly involved behind the bench, so he is aware of that locker room. 

 

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7 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

we have young players doing well in juniors, we didn't even have that in 2015 we had no players in the world juniors

Wood played that year for USA. The world juniors don't always equate to NHL success either. Jeff Frazee was amazing in that tournament and look how that turned out. 

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Man, this is a weird one.

On one hand, I think Shero has done much more positive than negative. We don't need to rehash the what state of the Devils and the barren prospect pool when he took over in 2015. Obviously the acquisitions of Hall and Palmieri are the highlights here. I'm not going to kill him for Subban, Simmonds, and the goaltending situation because I was cool with decisions in the summer. These were fine calculated risks that haven't panned out. 

Let's face it, we don't know the whole story here. This is obviously speculation on my part, but I can't believe the owners were happy that Hall left without even discussing numbers. Maybe the agent flat out told Shero he wasn't staying so it'd be a waste of time, but considering the strong statements Harris and Blitzer made in '18 about being so fervent about extending Hall - it doesn't look good. I am in the belief Shero did the right thing in trading him, but again, optics and all that.

If this is a philosophical decision and Shero wanted to blow it up again, as speculated, then this is the right move. Obviously you sell off UFAs when you're out of it but eventually, you have to keep some of your UFAs. If Palmieri was the line in the sand, then I'm glad this decision was made. Local kid, good leader, has a skillset that shouldn't diminish too badly in his 30s. If you're Hughes and Nico and you hear rumors that the team is looking to move KP a year before his deal is up, what kind of message does that send? Sure doesn't seem like you're committed to winning in the short term. I've been pro-tank for years but enough is enough. This young core has to now figure out how to win. It's why I'm not upset over these seemingly meaningless wins against Washington and TB. 

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5 hours ago, Satans Hockey said:

When's the last time an NHL player said "that guy sucked and deserved to be fired" lol

The vast majority of these guys say the right things, whether they are true or not

Or, just maybe the guy was sincere?

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1 hour ago, Derlique said:

 

If this is a philosophical decision and Shero wanted to blow it up again, as speculated, then this is the right move. Obviously you sell off UFAs when you're out of it but eventually, you have to keep some of your UFAs. If Palmieri was the line in the sand, then I'm glad this decision was made. Local kid, good leader, has a skillset that shouldn't diminish too badly in his 30s. If you're Hughes and Nico and you hear rumors that the team is looking to move KP a year before his deal is up, what kind of message does that send? Sure doesn't seem like you're committed to winning in the short term. I've been pro-tank for years but enough is enough. This young core has to now figure out how to win. It's why I'm not upset over these seemingly meaningless wins against Washington and TB. 

This, right here. Shero was shopping Palms, from multiple indications, and I’m glad ownership said piss off to that. He signed his extension when he knew we were sh!t, just like Butcher. We need guys to help the core and grow with them, not just a revolving door of wingers. 
 

I think we’re exactly in the same spot this morning as we were yesterday, but certainly no worse. Shero did well to restock the cupboard, but he also stuck to his gut for too long, (points to Hynes and Hall). New blood will help, even if that new blood is Fitz, whom most said would be good for the job post-Ray

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4 hours ago, Derlique said:

Man, this is a weird one.

On one hand, I think Shero has done much more positive than negative. We don't need to rehash the what state of the Devils and the barren prospect pool when he took over in 2015. Obviously the acquisitions of Hall and Palmieri are the highlights here. I'm not going to kill him for Subban, Simmonds, and the goaltending situation because I was cool with decisions in the summer. These were fine calculated risks that haven't panned out. 

Let's face it, we don't know the whole story here. This is obviously speculation on my part, but I can't believe the owners were happy that Hall left without even discussing numbers. Maybe the agent flat out told Shero he wasn't staying so it'd be a waste of time, but considering the strong statements Harris and Blitzer made in '18 about being so fervent about extending Hall - it doesn't look good. I am in the belief Shero did the right thing in trading him, but again, optics and all that.

If this is a philosophical decision and Shero wanted to blow it up again, as speculated, then this is the right move. Obviously you sell off UFAs when you're out of it but eventually, you have to keep some of your UFAs. If Palmieri was the line in the sand, then I'm glad this decision was made. Local kid, good leader, has a skillset that shouldn't diminish too badly in his 30s. If you're Hughes and Nico and you hear rumors that the team is looking to move KP a year before his deal is up, what kind of message does that send? Sure doesn't seem like you're committed to winning in the short term. I've been pro-tank for years but enough is enough. This young core has to now figure out how to win. It's why I'm not upset over these seemingly meaningless wins against Washington and TB. 

Re:  the bolded, for sure, we don't...but as far as the owners go, I now get the feeling Shero was read the riot act either during last season (once it was clear that the Devils weren't going to be relevant) or in the early days of the offseason.  To an extent, I think these owners have a bit of "fan" in them...they saw the Devils make the playoffs in Year 3 of Shero's reign, and they almost automatically assumed that Shero was going to find a way to at least keep the Devils in the playoff hunt in the seasons to follow, until they were ready to start winning some rounds.  As we know, it's not always about taking steps forward, or the process being 100% linear...sometimes it doesn't all go according to plan.  I don't think Shero was necessarily blindsided by losing his job yesterday, as much as I think he was by the owners telling him that this thing needed to get a move on, basically immediately...even more so because I'm sure Shero told ownership "Look, you guys are going to HAVE to be patient, I have to almost completely re-stock this team, there really is very little here, this is going to take time, it will not be an overnight thing, and trying to speed this up in the early going with some UFA signings isn't going to get us where we ultimately want to go."  I get the feeling no one was giving Shero a hard time initially, but when last year's evaluation season (we've been over it and it made sense, that Shero used last year to try to get more of a feel for how some of these kids would fit in long-term) blew up, suddenly it was, "Enough's enough Ray, this team needs to start winning and doing it right away!  Do what you have to, we'll let you spend, but it's gotta happen NOW!"

With the above being factored in, I think Shero may not have truly wanted to make the PK trade (preferring not to speed things up just yet), but was trying to toe the line of doing what he wanted to do, while trying to make his owners happy at the same time...and with high-profile potential UFAs either not reaching the market nor having any interest in signing with the Devils, Shero's "fast track" options were a bit limited last offseason.  And even though yes, he obviously got incredibly lucky by getting two #1OA picks to work with, I still think that he had his share of bad luck...Cory's game eroding almost overnight and his contract made that situation incredibly difficult to deal with.  And several of Shero's "makes sense" moves (after a couple of terrific ones in Palms and Hall) simply didn't work out.  

As far as criticisms of Shero go, yeah, he stuck with Hynes for too long.  And some guys like Mueller were given one chance too many.  

Sadly, I do think Shero is a solid hockey guy and it wouldn't surprise me to see him get another job and do well with it.  I really thought he was going to pan out here...and if anything, we won't fully be able to evaluate him until we see how his drafts work out.  That part of it will take some time.  Though I can't say that I'm crushed that he's gone, I would've liked to have seen him get one more offseason, to hire a new coach, make some more player moves, etc.  But if he was indeed championing another rebuild...that would've been hard to stomach.  

 

What I really hope is that this isn't the beginning of some "Meddling Owners" era in Devils history.  I think the current ownership has given both Lou and Shero pretty long leashes (and freedom to spend), but maybe now they're starting to feel like that approach isn't paying off for them, and that they need to start getting more involved.  Hopefully they realize that the end of Lou's era and the absolute dearth of talent within the system at that time was not going to be easy to overcome for ANY GM.  I'm not saying Shero was perfect and he did make some mistakes along the way (and like CD#9 said in a previous post, felt like too many of them had come in the last several months), but I hope the Devils don't now become one of those franchises that's changing GMs and plans every 2-4 years.  Sure, some owners can definitely be passive and patient to a fault, but the other end of the spectrum can be even uglier.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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CR76

I don't see how you can get any of that from the happenings. "Read the Riot ACt" etc...There's no indication ownership made any in-kind demands of Ray, supported his moves this summer, and the like. The PK move didn't seem out of the realm of things Ray wouldn't have normally done - so I just don't see this unseen hand affecting player movement. 

I think Ray deserved a little better here, maybe one more offseason and start to next season to see what was going on. 

But we don't know what the disagreement was. It had to be something fundamental, I think it has to do with trading guys away now - Ray maybe wanted to move on Sami/Kyle and we all could see that would push competitiveness likely back even further...that's the only thing I can think of. Put that together with "wait a minute, we were building towards something, we added salary with PK and Gusev, now you want to get rid of two vet leaders and producers for this team who still have good years left?" That's what I think is the issue. And put that together with leaving Hynes in for too long, which you can argue led to Hall being dealt for questionable returns, and they see a difference in the direction of the team.

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I just read a couple of quotes from Josh Harris. “We’re committed to winning and we aren’t winning enough”. “We’re not where we want to be”. Both sound like ownership expected the team to be doing better and they didn’t feel Shero was getting it done rather than some philosophical disagreement on the way forward. In which case I’m glad they did it. 

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Just now, Aitchmack said:

I just read a couple of quotes from Josh Harris. “We’re committed to winning and we aren’t winning enough”. “We’re not where we want to be”. Both sound like ownership expected the team to be doing better and they didn’t feel Shero was getting it done rather than some philosophical disagreement on the way forward. In which case I’m glad they did it. 

What else is he supposed to say? That's the most generic thing to say...

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5 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

What else is he supposed to say? That's the most generic thing to say...

I don't blame them.  We are in the same place where we were 5 years ago which is the gutter of the Metro.  Yeah we have Jack and Nico, but outside of them we have no prospects outside of Smith that even matter (I am not nearly as high on Bahl as a lot of others are).

If the main defense you have for keeping Shero is posting the 14-15 lineup then you lost the argument.  As SH posted earlier, most of the roster are Shero's guys.  We can't be blaming Lou forever and at some point the finger must be pointed at Shero.

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3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I don't blame them.  We are in the same place where we were 5 years ago which is the gutter of the Metro.  Yeah we have Jack and Nico, but outside of them we have no prospects outside of Smith that even matter (I am not nearly as high on Bahl as a lot of others are).

If the main defense you have for keeping Shero is posting the 14-15 lineup then you lost the argument.  As SH posted earlier, most of the roster are Shero's guys.  We can't be blaming Lou forever and at some point the finger must be pointed at Shero.

I have limited issue with the picks so far - his draft picks are still mostly under 21. We just don't know. I think what I wrote above was the thing, and once there is a thing, you go back and look at other decisions and think - "what if they got rid of Hynes earlier when sh!t was terrible?" "Could we have kept Hall, could we have done X,Y, or Z differently?"

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