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jagknife

GDT: Red Wings @ Devils - Thurs 13 Feb @ 7p Easter

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7 hours ago, Nicomo said:

But they do pretty much have it locked up. The next closest team (LA) has 13 more points than them. It would take DET getting really hot down the stretch, and both LA and OTT totally imploding for the Wings to not finish in last. 

I mean they can't get any better odds than 18.5 percent no matter how bad they are. 

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If you don’t hold the fact that he was the 6th overall pick in a deep draft over his head, Zacha is turning into a pretty good two way 30-45 point player, which you need.  It’s just maddening because he does show flashes of brilliance and you want so much more.   You also don’t particularly want to spend a 6th overall pick on a poor mans Zubrus.    

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1 minute ago, Lateralous said:

If you don’t hold the fact that he was the 6th overall pick in a deep draft over his head, Zacha is turning into a pretty good two way 30-45 point player, which you need.  It’s just maddening because he does show flashes of brilliance and you want so much more.   You also don’t particularly want to spend a 6th overall pick on a poor mans Zubrus.    

Unfortunately that will always be held over his head, which is a shame because he had no control over who picked him where. If he was picked 24th or something I think most would be fine with his development. I mean jeez he's playing with Wood and Simmonds and chipping in a few points. 

I'm also not entirely sure Barzal or Rantanen would have developed the same way that they did if their rookie years were with the 2016 Devils. Yes I do still think they'd turn out better than Zacha regardless though. 

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16 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

If you don’t hold the fact that he was the 6th overall pick in a deep draft over his head, Zacha is turning into a pretty good two way 30-45 point player, which you need.  It’s just maddening because he does show flashes of brilliance and you want so much more.   You also don’t particularly want to spend a 6th overall pick on a poor mans Zubrus.    

I continue to maintain his two way game is overrated. He’s decent on the PK, but that’s about it. On a team that has Nico, Coleman, and Zajac, Zacha is about our 4th best defensive forward. 

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5 hours ago, MB3 said:

“21 year old Pavel Zacha is not as good as 27 year old former MVP Taylor Hall”, positively riveting analysis like always CR.

It was a joke man.  You should spend this offseason trying to rediscover your sense of humor.  You used to have a good one.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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7 hours ago, MB3 said:

“21 year old Pavel Zacha is not as good as 27 year old former MVP Taylor Hall”, positively riveting analysis like always CR.

I notice you didn’t mention how I pointed out he’s just as good as a 90 year old Wayne Simmonds lol. 

Edited by mfitz804

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What`s wrong with you, guys. Zacha isn`t a flash, isn`t real decent 6th pick. But he was picked by devs, he wasnt chose to be pick. He play like 7-9 forward with decent pk minutes.  He has salary of 7-9 player. He must be 8-10 in points and he is 5-10. He did his job. Did rantanen or barzal better with us? Ofcourse. But we picked Zacha and Zacha has Zacha`s salary. Copp, M Karlsson from SJ, Kerfoot, Compher, Sissons +\- age, +\- salary, pts per salary.

Hall needs less games for 25 pts than Zacha. So what? Hall had 3xZacha`s salary.

Every day same song "Zacha... just kill our expectations" How dare he. The man  who play with corpse Wayne and the smartest guy Wood. With 2.2 KK in his pocket. May be this team really need in couple of decent guys in two first lines and couple of decent defensmen? No. 3-4 line player is guilty in all of sins.

Did Jay Pandolfo was bad with his decent pk minutes and poor points?

Edited by Guadana
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19 minutes ago, Guadana said:

Did Jay Pandolfo was bad with his decent pk minutes and poor points?

Who among us doesn’t ask this exact question every day?

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Again, you’re seriously overrating Zacha’s defense. Pandolfo and Madden were one of the best shutdown lines in all of hockey for years. 

Zacha is nowhere close to that. 

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Lots of talk about Zacha, he seems to be actually finding some consistency. 

I am still not willing to give up on him. 

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1 minute ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Lots of talk about Zacha, he seems to be actually finding some consistency. 

I am still not willing to give up on him. 

See I gave up, but that’s why when he does well, I look at it positively. 

———————-

I also don’t care if we beat up on District 5 last night, this team needs to learn how to win again, so I’ll take them any way we can get them. It was also an ugly game from what I saw (got home late from work, missed the entire first) but they won, also something they need to learn to do.

Tonight is another test with Carolina. Speaking of that... creating now

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1 hour ago, Guadana said:

What`s wrong with you, guys. Zacha isn`t a flash, isn`t real decent 6th pick. But he was picked by devs, he wasnt chose to be pick. He play like 7-9 forward with decent pk minutes.  He has salary of 7-9 player. He must be 8-10 in points and he is 5-10. He did his job. Did rantanen or barzal better with us? Ofcourse. But we picked Zacha and Zacha has Zacha`s salary. Copp, M Karlsson from SJ, Kerfoot, Compher, Sissons +\- age, +\- salary, pts per salary.

Hall needs less games for 25 pts than Zacha. So what? Hall had 3xZacha`s salary.

Every day same song "Zacha... just kill our expectations" How dare he. The man  who play with corpse Wayne and the smartest guy Wood. With 2.2 KK in his pocket. May be this team really need in couple of decent guys in two first lines and couple of decent defensmen? No. 3-4 line player is guilty in all of sins.

Did Jay Pandolfo was bad with his decent pk minutes and poor points?

The bolded was a joke.  It wasn't a literal comparison.  I would think most would've realized that an actual "meant-to-be-taken-seriously" Zacha to Hall comparison would've been an absurd one to make. 

I don't ever bring up when Zacha was picked.  That's water under the bridge.  I'm far more interested in how he can be a consistently effective player for the Devils going forward...and it doesn't have to be as an offensive superstar.  If he can become a steady 40-45 point guy (he's currently almost there, based on his current season pace) who can provide some nice intangibles and cut down on his maddening moments, I'll be plenty happy with that.  But I need to see that for a longer sample than he's managed so far.  There's been too many encouraging teases from him (all the way back to his first full season in the NHL) for me to start believing that this must be the time that he's fully turning the corner.  But it would be awesome if he is. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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40 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Again, you’re seriously overrating Zacha’s defense. Pandolfo and Madden were one of the best shutdown lines in all of hockey for years. 

Zacha is nowhere close to that. 

To be fair, Zacha's 22 (or 23?).  He hasn't exactly had the chance or duration to be compared to those guys.  Give him another 8 seasons and when he's around 30 years old if he's been a shutdown man for that long, I think it would be pretty easy to compare him to those guys.  But that's a long ways away, so who knows.

It's absolutely unfair to say he's not a Pandolfo or Madden at this point though.  Dude's career is just starting...

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Just now, jagknife said:

See I gave up, but that’s why when he does well, I look at it positively. 

———————-

I also don’t care if we beat up on District 5 last night, this team needs to learn how to win again, so I’ll take them any way we can get them. It was also an ugly game from what I saw (got home late from work, missed the entire first) but they won, also something they need to learn to do.

Tonight is another test with Carolina. Speaking of that... creating now

First and second periods were ugly (especially when the Devils were on the PP).  Felt like it was going to be a 2-0 loss (with Detroit getting an empty netter).  Didn't see that dam bursting the way that it did.  Was quite the pleasant surprise.

And yeah, Detroit is really really bad.  Devils are now 12-8-5 in their past 25.  Detroit's won all of 14 games for their SEASON.  

And on the 12-8-5 note...would really be kinda fun to see if the Devils can finish strong, even flirt with a .500 point% for the season (seemed like a pipe dream when the team was 9-17-5), but probably going to be very difficult to do with Cinco Domingo figuring to get a fair amount of starts.  Oh well...that is what it is.  If nothing else, Cinco can provide that completely random solid effort when you least expect it.  You just have to sift through a lot of rough starts to get them.  

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22 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

To be fair, Zacha's 22 (or 23?).  He hasn't exactly had the chance or duration to be compared to those guys.  Give him another 8 seasons and when he's around 30 years old if he's been a shutdown man for that long, I think it would be pretty easy to compare him to those guys.  But that's a long ways away, so who knows.

It's absolutely unfair to say he's not a Pandolfo or Madden at this point though.  Dude's career is just starting...

I don’t think it’s unfair at all. I’ve seen absolutely nothing from him to make me think he’ll ever be one of the best defensive forwards in the league. 

Nico is just starting out too, but him I can see competing for Selke’s, and being a top shutdown guy. 

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1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

Again, you’re seriously overrating Zacha’s defense. Pandolfo and Madden were one of the best shutdown lines in all of hockey for years. 

Zacha is nowhere close to that. 

They played with different players in first two lines. Madden start to play in nhl when he was 25-26, Pandolfo was 22-23 and he had worse numbers. Pandolfo never had 4 PK points. madden had same or more in his full seasons when he was 6 and more years older.

Good representation comparison, good analysis of 3rd line 22yo czech guy. 

Edited by Guadana

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44 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I don't ever bring up when Zacha was picked.  That's water under the bridge.  I'm far more interested in how he can be a consistently effective player for the Devils going forward...and it doesn't have to be as an offensive superstar.  If he can become a steady 40-45 point guy (he's currently almost there, based on his current season pace) who can provide some nice intangibles and cut down on his maddening moments, I'll be plenty happy with that.  But I need to see that for a longer sample than he's managed so far.  There's been too many encouraging teases from him (all the way back to his first full season in the NHL) for me to start believing that this must be the time that he's fully turning the corner.  But it would be awesome if he is. 

He is capable 3rd or 4th line player, he has salary and numbers of capable 3rd and 4th line hockey player. And he can be the man who can play game or two when someone is hurt. I dont think he will grow in 45-50-55 points player. But 30-35 and decent pk minutes where he is really good player when he is only 22 today - thats what he is now. And this team need a guys like Zacha because pp competent guys needs time to rest when team play in pk. To bad we havn`t enough pp competent guys.

 

My words isn`t about how great he is and isn`t about zacha next madden because i don`t think he is, my words are about zacha isn`t a problem for this team with his salary and his skills. This team hasn`t a decent player for hughes to grow, hasn`t backup and hasn`t 3 decent defensmen. minimum 3. And this forum debate about 3rd line player who play well in pk and had near 0.4-0.5 pts per game with wood and simmonds. 

 

Edited by Guadana

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2 minutes ago, pumpkin cutter said:

zacha has all the tools to be a top 6 winger. it's up to him if it comes to fruition. 

Some good coaching wouldn’t hurt...

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3 minutes ago, pumpkin cutter said:

zacha has all the tools to be a top 6 winger. it's up to him if it comes to fruition. 

Doesn't feel like that's really in the cards for him, but I'm not really asking for that either.  

Actually, I'll happily settle for what he's done over his last 21 GP (4 G, 8 A, and can pitch in with some points on special teams).  He went 6 games without a point in that sample, and that's OK...if you're going to be a 40-45 point player, those droughts are to be expected...I just don't want him to disappear for what feels like weeks at a time.  Throw in some consistency, and I won't have any beefs with him if that's the player he is going forward.  

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39 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I don’t think it’s unfair at all. I’ve seen absolutely nothing from him to make me think he’ll ever be one of the best defensive forwards in the league. 

Nico is just starting out too, but him I can see competing for Selke’s, and being a top shutdown guy. 

There's a difference between "he's a solid defensive forward" and "he's one of the best defensive forwards in the league". I didn't mention Pandolfo because there's no comparison to Pandolfo. 

This forum's favorite player is Blake Coleman. You know what Blake Coleman was doing as a 22 year old? Putting up 28 points as a member of the Miami University RedHawks. As a 23 year old he put up 36 points... as a Miami University Redhawk. At 24 he put up 19 points as an Albany Devil. At 25 he put up 2 points in 30 games as a New Jersey Devil. Boy, he seems really stagnant in his growth, huh?

His age 26 season he looked serviceable. His age 27 season he became a fan favorite. His age 28 season makes him the forum's by-far favorite hockey player. 

Pavel Zacha is growing up as a hockey player. We're watching him grow up in the best league on earth, and not in the Mid-American Conference of the CCHA. I'm disappointed he isn't Barzal. I'm disappointed he isn't Provorov. I'm disappointed he isn't Werenski or Rantanen. But I can also appreciate we're watching a young player grow. Hating Zacha because we took him instead of those guys isn't too different, for me, than hating Nico because we didn't take Heiskanen, Makar or Pettersson. Both of those players make our franchise immensely better, but I still adore Nico Hischier. 

The same people who tell me I'm not allowed to use "muh age" excuse and "but but but look at his linemates" excuse are currently doing the exact same thing for Jack Hughes. They did the same thing for Nico when he looked barely above replacement level last year. They still cheer for McLeod because maybe he just "hasn't been given a chance". They're repeating it to themselves in the shower with Ty Smith, pretending it's not at all concerning he couldn't crack one of the worst defensive units in the history of our goddamned franchise. I've seen "wow this coaching is ruining INSERT EVERY OTHER DEVILS PLAYER HERE" from fifty people. The first time I've seen someone say "hmm, maybe Pavel Zacha is also on the recieving end of abhorrently fvcking terrible coaching" is three replies above me.

But a couple of loud clowns here who contribute to 80% of the daily posts on this website have everyone convinced he's the worst player in the world. They have everyone convinced that it's worse for a 6th overall pick to have 100 points in 253 career games than an 11th overall pick who's less than a year younger than Pavel to have 5 points in 26 career games. They say BARZALLLLLLL and PROVOROVVVVV and pretend we didn't draft McLeod over McAvoy and Chychrun. 

So yeah, @Colorado Rockies 1976 my sense of humor may have just been better a year ago. Or maybe a year of coming to this forum, seeing the exact same played out and exhausted jokes repeated by the same two people twenty five times a day has finally rubbed the fun off of what used to be my favorite little internet home. 

Edited by MB3
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38 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I don’t think it’s unfair at all. I’ve seen absolutely nothing from him to make me think he’ll ever be one of the best defensive forwards in the league. 

Nico is just starting out too, but him I can see competing for Selke’s, and being a top shutdown guy. 

It's OK to say you don't think he will be one of the best defensive forwards in the league and ever reach Madden/Pandolfo-esque levels, but to compare him to them now is definitely unfair.  I don't know what you do for a living, but I'll use myself as an example - I'm in IT, and it wouldn't be fair to compare a 22 year old Network Admin just coming out college to a 35yr old Network Admin who's been in the business for over a decade and has a lot more experience and accomplishments.  You gotta wait until that 22 is 35 himself before you can do an apples to apples comparison...

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3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

There's a difference between "he's a solid defensive forward" and "he's one of the best defensive forwards in the league". I didn't mention Pandolfo because there's no comparison to Pandolfo. 

This forum's favorite player is Blake Coleman. You know what Blake Coleman was doing as a 22 year old? Putting up 28 points as a member of the Miami University RedHawks. As a 23 year old he put up 36 points... as a Miami University Redhawk. At 24 he put up 19 points as an Albany Devil. At 25 he put up 2 points in 30 games as a New Jersey Devil. Boy, he seems really stagnant in his growth, huh?

His age 26 season he looked serviceable. His age 27 season he became a fan favorite. His age 28 season makes him the forum's by-far favorite hockey player. 

Pavel Zacha is growing up as a hockey player. We're watching him grow up in the best league on earth, and not in the Mid-American Conference of the CCHA. I'm disappointed he isn't Barzal. I'm disappointed he isn't Provorov. I'm disappointed he isn't Werenski or Rantanen. But I can also appreciate we're watching a young player grow. Hating Zacha because we took him instead of those guys isn't too different, for me, than hating Nico because we didn't take Heiskanen, Makar or Pettersson. Both of those players make our franchise immensely better, but I still adore Nico Hischier. 

The same people who tell me I'm not allowed to use "muh age" excuse and "but but but look at his linemates" excuse are currently doing the exact same thing for Jack Hughes. They did the same thing for Nico when he looked barely above replacement level last year. They still cheer for McLeod because maybe he just "hasn't been given a chance". They're repeating it to themselves in the shower with Ty Smith, pretending it's not at all concerning he couldn't crack one of the worst defensive units in the history of our goddamned franchise. I've seen "wow this coaching is ruining INSERT EVERY OTHER DEVILS PLAYER HERE" from fifty people. The first time I've seen someone say "hmm, maybe Pavel Zacha is also on the recieving end of abhorrently fvcking terrible coaching" is three replies above me.

But a couple of loud clowns here who contribute to 80% of the daily posts on this website have everyone convinced he's the worst player in the world. They have everyone convinced that it's worse for a 6th overall pick to have 100 points in 253 career games than an 11th overall pick who's less than a year younger than Pavel to have 5 points in 26 career games. They say BARZALLLLLLL and PROVOROVVVVV and pretend we didn't draft McLeod over McAvoy and Chychrun. 

So yeah, @Colorado Rockies 1976 my sense of humor may have just been better a year ago. Or maybe a year of coming to this forum, seeing the exact same played out and exhausted jokes repeated by the same two people twenty five times a day has finally rubbed the fun off of what used to be my favorite little internet home. 

The points about Zacha are pretty spot on.  The other stuff at the end (i.e. humor, jokes, etc) I can't comment on as I don't try to take this too seriously.  Our team sucks, and that usually brings out the worse in this place, so it is what it is.  I still like it here, and I know better days lie ahead. 

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7 minutes ago, MB3 said:

So yeah, @Colorado Rockies 1976 my sense of humor may have just been better a year ago. Or maybe a year of coming to this forum, seeing the exact same played out and exhausted jokes repeated by the same two people twenty five times a day has finally rubbed the fun off of what used to be my favorite little internet home. 

Fine, not sure why you decided to jump on me though...I mean, c'mon, did you really think I was going for something "riveting" there?  I think you know me better than that...we go back a long way.  I've been frustrated with Zacha at times, but I haven't been constantly jumping up and down on him either, or making tons of jokes at his expense...I happened to make one last night, mostly because his numbers just happened to sync up with Hall's, and piggybacked what was supposed to a silly observation (the points comparison, anyway) onto mfitz comparing Zacha's numbers to Simmonds.  You're projecting your anger onto the wrong party. 

I'm the friggin' guy who's worn a GW McMullen Night Zacha jersey (that wasn't cheap) to games.  In public.  Multiple times.  And even though yes, there's been times he's been frustrating, I think my current expectations of him are very realistic.  I'm not comparing him to anyone else in his draft, and I'm not holding when he was picked against him.  I've already said what I hope he can be.  If that happens, I will be fine with him.  

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4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Fine, not sure why you decided to jump on me though...I mean, c'mon, did you really think I was going for something "riveting" there?  I think you know me better than that...we go back a long way.  I've been frustrated with Zacha at times, but I haven't been constantly jumping up and down on him either, or making tons of jokes at his expense...I happened to make one last night, mostly because his numbers just happened to sync up with Hall's, and piggybacked what was supposed to a silly observation (the points comparison, anyway) onto mfitz comparing Zacha's numbers to Simmonds.  You're projecting your anger onto the wrong party. 

I'm the friggin' guy who's worn a GW McMullen Night Zacha jersey (that wasn't cheap) to games.  In public.  Multiple times.  And even though yes, there's been times he's been frustrating, I think my current expectations of him are very realistic.  I'm not comparing him to anyone else in his draft, and I'm not holding when he was picked against him.  I've already said what I hope he can be.  If that happens, I will be fine with him.  

I commented at you because you asked when I lost my sense of humor. I wanted to give you my reasoning.

I do not include you in that list of broken records who repeats the same joke forty times a day. 

Edited by MB3
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