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jagknife

Coleman to the Bolts

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3 minutes ago, Devs3cups said:

Oh yeah, not saying we should trade Palms, just wondering what the return would be considering the return we got here.

I feel the same way. I think we have a good shot at re-signing him after next season and I’d like him to still be here. 

But an I curious what the return would be? Definitely. 

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How bad would it suck to see him not re-sign and go the Rags though...

Grew up a Rags fan, and wouldn’t have to move. I’ve never really heard much about him wanting to stay in NJ. At least not like Zajac who’s made it completely clear he doesn’t want out no matter what. 

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5 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

How bad would it suck to see him not re-sign and go the Rags though...

Grew up a Rags fan, and wouldn’t have to move. I’ve never really heard much about him wanting to stay in NJ. At least not like Zajac who’s made it completely clear he doesn’t want out no matter what. 

The time he signed a 5 year contract was at least some evidence of wanting to be here...

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12 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

The time he signed a 5 year contract was at least some evidence of wanting to be here...

Wasn’t he a RFA though? 

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3 hours ago, Rob_Ottawa said:

You guys value draft picks way too high here. Coleman seems like a perennial twenty goal guy with heart who actually seems to give a damn night in and night out. You don't trade guys like that unless you get one back who's the same.

Look I was as big a skeptic over a possible trade of Coleman as anyone but they got essentially TWO first-rounders for a guy who was only under control for one more year after this, they maxed out on value and then some.

And I still don't want them to trade Palm or Gusev but if they really are going into PROCESS mode then that'll probably happen by next Monday and Fitz at least you can trust can find a decent return.  There won't be much to look forward to here for the next couple years, but there hasn't been the last several years anyway.

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I was a fan of most of the work Shero did here but we never really had the assets to do a big time fire sale at the beginning of the rebuild and Shero also made a lot of value trades using our 2nd and 3rd rounders.   With this move, the hall trade and even the Greene trade, we’re going to really be able stock the system.   I still think Ty Smith is going to be a great asset, but we have a sh!t ton of work to do to build up the D 

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@CommonDreads thoughts on Foote? 

Am I happy about losing Blake? No, it sucks to see the guy who was essentially making this team at least bearable to watch this year go. 

Am I happy with the return? Yes , Fitz seems to have learned how to get value much in the same way that Ray did. 

So basically I am conflicted. 

I really do feel for Blake and his wife though. The arrival of his daughter is imminent, and having this much upheaval is probably incredibly stressful. Hope that all goes well for them. 

tenor.gif

(Never has a GIF better summed up my mood in a situation) 

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Saw this blurb by one of the Athletic writers posted on HF...


2. Nolan Foote, LW, 19 (Kelowna Rockets)

Foote is a player I was sour on for a long time because I worried that he:

 

  • Struggled in transition as a skater, limiting his ability to get off his lethal snap shot as he progresses up levels.
  • Didn’t do a great job using his linemates or finding his linemates through traffic when he tried to. His head tended to dip, limiting his peripheral vision and turning him into a predictable, borderline one-dimensional player.


Both of those things have now progressed to a level where I’m happy with them. I worried that he might look out of place in a top-six for Canada at the world juniors that also boasted Barrett Hayton, Alexis Lafreniere, Dylan Cozens and Joe Veleno – four players who are plus-level skaters – and later added Liam Foudy – one of the fastest players on the planet. He didn’t, though, and did a good job keeping up off the rush, while providing a different element once offensive zone pressure had been established.

Top 2020 prospect Quinton Byfield, who roomed with Foote at the world juniors, was quick to point to the fact that, while his roomie has size and a lethal shot, he can also skate and move the puck, calling him an “exceptional player.” Mitch Love, Team Canada’s assistant coach and one of Foote’s rival coaches in the WHL with the Saskatoon Blades, was quick to point out how thankful he was that Foote was teeing up his shot for the good guys.

Foote’s skating has improved to a level where I would say it’s NHL average, which is fine for a kid who is 6-foot-4. And while he’s always going to be a shot first player, I am increasingly impressed with his ability to make small area plays to teammates. I think he has a chance to become a good second line scorer who provides a physical element and length to a line. He was good at the world juniors, great in the Canada-Russia series and he’s consistently dangerous on a team that lacks a supporting cast in Kelowna.

 

Honestly this could end up being our best trade since Larsson for Hall. Especially if we can turn the 1st into something. 

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I don’t see any problems in Gusev trading. As faster as Fitz can. Gusev made all his production with Coleman. Coleman and Zajac did all of positional work, Coleman did breakaways. After Coleman gone only thing where Gusev can be useful is playing with Hughes and Hischier. With jack Gusev was terrible and they are both small playmakers without scorer still. Coleman was Gusevs scorer. And now only one chance for Gusev to be really productive is if nas try to play him with palms and Nico. If it will not happened or Gusev can’t click with Nico and Palms - Gusev doesn’t have a place in this team to be a man he may be. 
and now he has some value. And still has one year of contract. It’s a best time to trade him. 

Edited by Guadana

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34 minutes ago, Guadana said:

I don’t see any problems in Gusev trading. As faster as Fitz can. Gusev made all his production with Coleman. Coleman and Zajac did all of positional work, Coleman did breakaways. After Coleman gone only thing where Gusev can be useful is playing with Hughes and Hischier. With jack Gusev was terrible and they are both small playmakers without scorer still. Coleman was Gusevs scorer. And now only one chance for Gusev to be really productive is if nas try to play him with palms and Nico. If it will not happened or Gusev can’t click with Nico and Palms - Gusev doesn’t have a place in this team to be a man he may be. 
and now he has some value. And still has one year of contract. It’s a best time to trade him

I'm pretty sure that next season Gusev has a no trade clause in his contract so if they are planning on trading him it'll have to be now.

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I'm wondering if one of these 1st rounders can get us a top pairing D man plus another prospect.? Saddened to see #20 go anywhere.  

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The return for Coleman we got is arguably better value than what we got for Hall.  That makes me even more comfortable with Shero getting sh!t-canned and Fitz being in charge.

Now please move the following players:

Vats

Simmonds

Wood

Palms

 

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Sorry to see Coleman go but this was a classic "sell high" trade. Coleman's production (at least on this team with the lines he was on) was at the peak. Make some more moves, this year and next will be painful but we'll hopefully see some upper level talent start to appear and flourish with playing time.

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32 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

The return for Coleman we got is arguably better value than what we got for Hall.  That makes me even more comfortable with Shero getting sh!t-canned and Fitz being in charge.

Hall is a UFA rental, Coleman has another cheap year left.   Also, I’m not surprised the top teams didn’t undervalue Coleman as a top defensive player with a knack for scoring.

 

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5 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

The return for Coleman we got is arguably better value than what we got for Hall.  That makes me even more comfortable with Shero getting sh!t-canned and Fitz being in charge.

Now please move the following players:

Vats

Simmonds

Wood

Palms

I'm keeping Palms because I think the team should have at least one productive vet in the lineup.  Zajac is probably gone after next year, and if Palms has shown anything, it's that he'll find some way to score at a 30 G per 82 GP rate.  He has 11 G and 11 A in his last 23 GP.  Gotta have SOMEONE who can play with Nico and/or Hughes who can put the puck home.  Palms has a legit NHL shot.  GIven that cap room is not going to be an issue with the team for years going forward, I'll take my chances with him, even if the last couple of years on his deal might not yield a killer return.  

For now I hang onto Wood mostly because he's not going to bring back anything of significance...might as well give him another season to see if he can up his value.

Fine with moving Vats and Simmonds.  

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Just now, aylbert said:

Hall is a UFA rental, Coleman has another cheap year left.   Also, I’m not surprised the top teams didn’t undervalue Coleman as a top defensive player with a knack for scoring.

 

One player is a third liner who has overachieved.  The other is a player who is only 2 years removed from his MVP season.

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I like Fitz and his demeanor, but the way I see it, is that Fitz didn't work the phones(by his account) on Coleman. He basically had something that is now more coveted then previous pending UFA's at the deadline: a rediculously cheap overperforming contract under control for 1 more season. It doesn't hurt that Coleman is a very good versatile player and REALLY fits the needs of Tampa. Maybe a more experienced GM gets even more as rediculous as it sounds. 

Greene's deal is 100% based upon Lou being the GM in Long Island. That 2nd round pick many believe is overpayment is more of Lou wanting what Lou wants. Fitz had zero leverage here and if Lou didn't have that extreme comfort level with Andy then that offer isn't there. Lou knows that 2nd isn't as valauble to a contending team, especially considering it means they can aquire a guy that is perfect to come in and play a strict structure it is him. Signing him next year could be on his radar as well.

I like Fitz, but are the returns Fitz or circumstance?

I am interested in seeing how good he is with his remaining moves before next Monday.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, hystyk28 said:

I like Fitz and his demeanor, but the way I see it, is that Fitz didn't work the phones(by his account) on Coleman. He basically had something that is now more coveted then previous pending UFA's at the deadline: a rediculously cheap overperforming contract under control for 1 more season. It doesn't hurt that Coleman is a very good versatile player and REALLY fits the needs of Tampa. Maybe a more experienced GM gets even more as rediculous as it sounds. 

Greene's deal is 100% based upon Lou being the GM in Long Island. That 2nd round pick many believe is overpayment is more of Lou wanting what Lou wants. Fitz had zero leverage here and if Lou didn't have that extreme comfort level with Andy then that offer isn't there. Lou knows that 2nd isn't as valauble to a contending team, especially considering it means they can aquire a guy that is perfect to come in and play a strict structure it is him. Signing him next year could be on his radar as well.

I like Fitz, but are the returns Fitz or circumstance?

I am interested in seeing how good he is with his remaining moves before next Monday.

Obviously too early to judge Fitz, based on a couple of good moves, and a nice ability to articulate his thoughts.

If anything, I give him some early credit for not overplaying his hand in either deal.  Sometimes GMs fubar those "Just make it" kinds of deals, in trying to squeeze out just that little bit more.  Fitz clearly did not do that.  

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

One player is a third liner who has overachieved.  The other is a player who is only 2 years removed from his MVP season.

As if it’s Shero’s fault the return he got for Hall was what the market was offering lol...which btw was still a pretty good return.

Blake Coleman isn’t an overachiever either. He’s proving to be a consistent 20 goal scorer. Hence the excellent return.

Edited by devlman

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Just now, devlman said:

As if it’s Shero’s fault the return he got for Hall was what the market was offering lol...which btw was still a pretty good return.

Shero gets credit all the time for a home run by squeezing Hall from Edmonton but for the Hall to Arizona trade it is "what the market was offering."

OK then.

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10 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Wasn’t he a RFA though? 

Yes, but only for two more years, and he signed for 5. 

I’m not saying it’s conclusive proof he wants to be here, just more evidence than there was with Hall or there is with Vatanen. 

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4 hours ago, Aitchmack said:

I'm pretty sure that next season Gusev has a no trade clause in his contract so if they are planning on trading him it'll have to be now.

I guess technically, although he’d always be able to waive it and go play for a Cup if he didn’t intend to re-sign anyway. 

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6 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

@CommonDreads thoughts on Foote? 

Am I happy about losing Blake? No, it sucks to see the guy who was essentially making this team at least bearable to watch this year go. 

Am I happy with the return? Yes , Fitz seems to have learned how to get value much in the same way that Ray did. 

So basically I am conflicted. 

I really do feel for Blake and his wife though. The arrival of his daughter is imminent, and having this much upheaval is probably incredibly stressful. Hope that all goes well for them. 

tenor.gif

(Never has a GIF better summed up my mood in a situation) 

Don't feel too bad. He's joining a powerhouse that will go for the cup and live in Tampa where the weather is amazing. So im not too worried for them 

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