GDT: Devils at Ducks, 3/1/2020 8pm Eastern

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

My issue was more with the idea that he does it a lot and on a nightly basis. That hasn't been true for a lot of games. Sometimes its once a game, sometimes not at all. 

 

\Again, I am not disagreeing with you and I think there's something there to be encouraged by, but the way you're saying it, it sounds like he's the second coming and everyone else is just fvcking it up. 

 

I also like Wood, he's a weird animal but he does draw penalties and does create more opportunities than his style and talent should permit. 

To be honest, I have noticed Wood more the past 5 or so games than Hughes.

[DevsMan84]

6 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Tell that to the Hughes Hot Takers

Saying he has 1 point in his last 10 games is a hot take?

[Nicomo]

9 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Doesn't Wood get lumped into that same category?  Didn't Cordell used to write extensively about how BB8 creates a lot of chances?

I care about points and wins, not chances.

If you’re blaming an 18 year old rookie for lack of wins therein lies the problem. 

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

To be honest, I have noticed Wood more the past 5 or so games than Hughes.

He isn’t as good, but guaranteed he works as hard if not harder than everyone on the ice every night. Chaos on skates. I’d have him on my 4th line all day. 

[MadDog2020]

Just now, DevsMan84 said:

Saying he has 1 point in his last 10 games is a hot take?

No. Implying he’s a bust waiting to happen is though (and to be fair, that’s more Daniel than you).

[DevsMan84]

Just now, Nicomo said:

If you’re blaming an 18 year old rookie for lack of wins therein lies the problem. 

I clearly said points and wins in my post lol

[DevsMan84]

1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

No. Implying he’s a bust waiting to happen is though (and to be fair, that’s more Daniel than you).

Fair.  I just don't understand why posters here somehow seem to have crystal balls saying he will eventually succeed but me saying there is reason to worry I am just talking out of my ass.

[MadDog2020]

4 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Fair.  I just don't understand why posters here somehow seem to have crystal balls saying he will eventually succeed but me saying there is reason to worry I am just talking out of my ass.

I just don’t think there’s much reason to worry, and that’s where we differ. The kid gets the benefit of the doubt this year, seeing as how he’s 18, weighs 160 pounds soaking wet, and is a string bean on skates playing against men on a nightly basis. And despite that, the flashes are there. The talent is evident. Let him fill out and put on 15-20 pounds. The future is bright for Jack. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by MadDog2020

[Nicomo]

7 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I clearly said points and wins in my post lol

Right. But we all knew Hughes was going to need to be eased in this year. He never “played against men.” So while I’m disappointed with his point totals, I’m not putting our lack of success on him. Or at least he’s not high on the list. Guys like Subban, Cory, and the other vets that were expected to lead this team are the ones that should be held accountable. 

[titans04]

I think it's certainly fair to be extremely disappointed in the season Hughes has had to date. I don't think that necessarily means he's a bust or or will be anything close to it over his career. At the same time I don't think it's a slam dunk he's going to be the second coming.  We get on minus man yet if you look at the projected numbers for the rest of the season Hughes is going to beat him out easily for the green jacket by 6 strokes.

There are flashes of nice plays but they aren't consistent and as Mfitz has pointed out there's games where he's invisible. To me it can't always be about his linemates. He's hasn't been productive no matter who his linemates have been. If you look at where he stands points wise within the team (that's extremely limited talent wise on the whole) it's dreadful.  He projects out at 27 points and -31. If someone would of put those numbers out at the beginning of the season they would of been laughed at.  He like most others have been part of the reason why this team hasn't played a meaningful game in weeks/months.  

Hopefully he can regroup over the off season and take whatever steps are necessary to elevate his game starting with game 1 next season. The expectations aren't going to go away when you're the #1 pick. 

[Nicomo]

9 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Fair.  I just don't understand why posters here somehow seem to have crystal balls saying he will eventually succeed but me saying there is reason to worry I am just talking out of my ass.

This is not what happened though. A couple people started the bust talk, some others (myself included) countered with examples of some great players that struggled early on, and were then mocked because they were “too long ago” or something. 

[Devil Dan 56]

The Cory thing is probably more complicated than just being able to get rid of him.

He's making 6 million and very few teams will want to take that on. He's clearly not hurt so there's no LTIR. Do the owners want to pay him that kind of money to sit in the minors? Probably not. Do you buy him out?  They may not want to do that either. They are currently paying for part of Hall, Vats, and  Simmonds, plus what’s left of Cammalleri and Kovalchuk’s contracts. For all we know they are sick of paying dead cap space.

 What I do know is if that we absolutely can’t go into next season with Blackwood, Schneider, and Senn as our top 3. There needs to be another veteran able to jump in. Let Senn be the guy in Binghamton for the next year

[Devilsfan118]

1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

 What I do know is if that we absolutely can’t go into next season with Blackwood, Schneider, and Senn as our top 3. There needs to be another veteran able to jump in. Let Senn be the guy in Binghamton for the next year

For your health, I recommend you just come to terms with the fact that we'll be trotting Blackwood and Cory out there as our duo next season.  I've gone through the stages of grief and have arrived at acceptance already and it'd probably be for the best that you do the same.

Jokes aside - it's probably going to happen.  When Cory falters we'll be stuck desperately looking for a goalie, again.  It is what it is.

[Lateralous]

Watched the game last night as best I could but was trying to keep my newborn settled for large stretches of it, so just now catching up.  A few random thoughts:

• For a total lack of goal scoring, it's funny how when he does score, Zacha seems to get two.  I know there's a big group on here that call him a bust and want to move on from him but when you get past his draft position and who was taken after him, he's clearly a useful middle 6 guy.    Hopefully with the chemistry he's showing with Bratt, he can get to 40 points for the season. 
• I not worried about Hughes at all until I see him come out next season and struggle.   
• As many have said, don't fall for the Schneider late season routine again.   Nothing against the guy but it is just time to move on.  We can't go another 2/3rd of a year or longer stretch without him contributing a win, which he's already done twice.   
• Just like it was super encouraging to see Nico breaking out before his injury, you have to really feel good about the way Bratt has been playing.  He looks like he's going to be a major piece of the core with what we're seeing right now.    

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I just don’t think there’s much reason to worry, and that’s where we differ. The kid gets the benefit of the doubt this year, seeing as how he’s 18, weighs 160 soaking wet, and is a string bean on skates playing against men on a nightly basis. And despite that, the flashes are there. The talent is evident. Let him fill out and put on 15-20 pounds. The future is bright for Jack. 

Yup, look at what Nico looked like his rookie year, and I think Jack is even smaller. A rookie Nico playing between Wood and Simmonds wouldn’t have put up 50 points. 

But Jack could pass for 15, he is that small. He needs to do whatever Nico did between years 1 and 2.

[Nicomo]

9 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

For your health, I recommend you just come to terms with the fact that we'll be trotting Blackwood and Cory out there as our duo next season.  I've gone through the stages of grief and have arrived at acceptance already and it'd probably be for the best that you do the same.

Jokes aside - it's probably going to happen.  When Cory falters we'll be stuck desperately looking for a goalie, again.  It is what it is.

Fitz should be fired over it if this happens. 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

Fitz should be fired over it if this happens. 

You’re assuming he’ll have the job...

[Nicomo]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

You’re assuming he’ll have the job...

Well, he’s the GM until he’s not. And I do think he gets the job. 

I would also probably worry a little less about a totally new GM with no relationship to Cory bringing him back. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

21 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Fair.  I just don't understand why posters here somehow seem to have crystal balls saying he will eventually succeed but me saying there is reason to worry I am just talking out of my ass.

For those who are more optimistic, they can list players who got off to similar starts who eventually (sometimes fairly quickly) figure things out, and go on to fulfill expectations (or at least come close).

For those who are more pessimistic, they can obviously list the players who got off to slow starts and just never could get it going (I mentioned that such players do exist in my post).

Like I said, no one knows with absolute certainty what is going to happen with this kid.  No one has a crystal ball.  Like Nicomo posted, I do see some encouraging signs.  

I don't think you're talking out of your ass.  I just think you're jumping the gun (leaning towards "he's going to be a disappointment") based on a relatively small sample, the fact that the guy involved is still very very young, and the fact that it's not like he's playing in the best of circumstances...of course, if you're a #1OA pick, chances are you're not playing in the best of circumstances anyway, so I can't make a huge deal out of that.  And I wouldn't be using points as the be-all end-all at this point in his career.  Yes, his total point output is far from great.  But I gotta give this kid at least until he's 20 and see little-to-no progress to really believe that he's on his way to being far less than what was expected. 

I'm guessing that if you had witnessed 18/19-year-old Brendan Shanahan's first season (77 GP between the regular season & playoffs, 9 G, 20 A, 29 points), you probably would've had a similar reaction.  Just give the kid some time.   

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Well, he’s the GM until he’s not. And I do think he gets the job. 

I would also probably worry a little less about a totally new GM with no relationship to Cory bringing him back. 

I’m not sure what other option we have, unless we’re buying him out. And as I mentioned previously, that could create a cap floor issue if we don’t add back some salary. 

[Devil Dan 56]

20 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

For your health, I recommend you just come to terms with the fact that we'll be trotting Blackwood and Cory out there as our duo next season.  I've gone through the stages of grief and have arrived at acceptance already and it'd probably be for the best that you do the same.

Jokes aside - it's probably going to happen.  When Cory falters we'll be stuck desperately looking for a goalie, again.  It is what it is.

I think that was one of Shero’s biggest mistakes. I would like to think Fitz learned from it. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I’m not sure what other option we have, unless we’re buying him out. And as I mentioned previously, that could create a cap floor issue if we don’t add back some salary. 

Bratt and Mac will get RFA raises.  Gotta think the Devils do something in UFA, or even trade for a guy making some coin.  

[Jimmy Leeds]

1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

Can you at least admit he creates a lot of great chances? Almost nightly. I’d be much more concerned if he wasn’t even doing that. And he was truly “invisible” like some have claimed. 

This^

The Devs do not have any finishers...........he's put the puck on the tape multiple times and zero finishing...........I'm not concerned with him at all.   He needs to get back in the center and he needs actual goal scorers.

[Nicomo]

12 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

For those who are more optimistic, they can list players who got off to similar starts who eventually (sometimes fairly quickly) figure things out, and go on to fulfill expectations (or at least come close).

For those who are more pessimistic, they can obviously list the players who got off to slow starts and just never could get it going (I mentioned that such players do exist in my post).

Like I said, no one knows with absolute certainty what is going to happen with this kid.  No one has a crystal ball.  Like Nicomo posted, I do see some encouraging signs.  

I don't think you're talking out of your ass.  I just think you're jumping the gun (leaning towards "he's going to be a disappointment") based on a relatively small sample, the fact that the guy involved is still very very young, and the fact that it's not like he's playing in the best of circumstances...of course, if you're a #1OA pick, chances are you're not playing in the best of circumstances anyway, so I can't make a huge deal out of that.  And I wouldn't be using points as the be-all end-all at this point in his career.  Yes, his total point output is far from great.  But I gotta give this kid at least until he's 20 and see little-to-no progress to really believe that he's on his way to being far less than what was expected. 

I'm guessing that if you had witnessed 18/19-year-old Brendan Shanahan's first season (77 GP between the regular season & playoffs, 9 G, 20 A, 29 points), you probably would've had a similar reaction.  Just give the kid some time.   

Now you’re going to get crucified for going all the way back to the 80’s!!! Lol

Another good example though. I asked in another thread, and it went ignored, so I’ll ask again, does anyone honestly think Hughes would have such low point totals if he was lucky enough to join the 2017 Leafs instead of the 2019 Devils? Matthews had 4 guys that had 60+ points to play with (Marner, Kadri, Nylander, JVM). We have ZERO. 

And yes, obviously Matthews was far more ready. I’m not saying Jack would have scored 40 goals. 

[mfitz804]

28 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Bratt and Mac will get RFA raises.  Gotta think the Devils do something in UFA, or even trade for a guy making some coin.  

I mean I really hope we chase down some other guys...