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Jack Hughes is having the worst season for a number 1 overall pick in 20 years and that’s with getting more of an opportunity to succeed because the team has no offensive talent to speak of that is taking opportunities away from him.   He’s fast, but he’s invisible 95 percent of the time, except when he’s turning the puck over.  If you’re gonna have as slight a frame as he’ll always have, you have to really think two steps ahead, which he has shown no ability to do when he’s not playing against other teenagers.
 

It took everyone here forever to recognize John Hynes’ incompetence, that Adam Larsson being overrated was not Pete DeBoer’s fault, and that Pavel Zacha was never going to be a good NHL player.  
 

Trade him for Jack Eichel while we can.

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You're right. I take back my post. Only a moron would say something that stupid. 

Out of all the things to get upset about this miserable season I just can't get worked up about an 18 year old who still looks like a little kid. How many posts has he hit this season? How many fantas

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22 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Jack Hughes is having the worst season for a number 1 overall pick in 20 years and that’s with getting more of an opportunity to succeed because the team has no offensive talent to speak of that is taking opportunities away from him.   He’s fast, but he’s invisible 95 percent of the time, except when he’s turning the puck over.  If you’re gonna have as slight a frame as he’ll always have, you have to really think two steps ahead, which he has shown no ability to do when he’s not playing against other teenagers.
 

It took everyone here forever to recognize John Hynes’ incompetence, that Adam Larsson being overrated was not Pete DeBoer’s fault, and that Pavel Zacha was never going to be a good NHL player.  
 

Trade him for Jack Eichel while we can.

Hughes was the youngest player ever for the United States team at the Worlds and was playing on a team full of top flight NHL talent and is holding his own just fine, as contrasted with Eichel and Matthews who got top line minutes playing with, at best, average pros.  As a 17 year old Hughes excelled against college players, many of whom are older than 22.  He could have entered the NHL 18 months ago and he'd probably be one of the twenty fastest skaters in the league. 

The only source of this ridiculous concept that Hughes is not going to be a good player I can think of would be David Conte or Connor Chatham. 

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21 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Lol

Or I guess we'll be the new Oilers.  Mike Gillis is probably going to be the next GM so it'll be a real viking funeral, but at least the Devils will have the most efficient hotel booking system in the league because that's definitely what helps you win games in analytics land.

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1 minute ago, MB3 said:

Hughes was the youngest player ever for the United States team at the Worlds and was playing on a team full of top flight NHL talent and is holding his own just fine, as contrasted with Eichel and Matthews who got top line minutes playing with, at best, average pros.  As a 17 year old Hughes excelled against college players, many of whom are older than 22.  He could have entered the NHL 18 months ago and he'd probably be one of the twenty fastest skaters in the league. 

The only source of this ridiculous concept that Hughes is not going to be a good player I can think of would be David Conte or Connor Chatham. 

Mirco Mueller played well at the Worlds too. 

The source of me saying that he's not going to be a good player is just what I said.  Putting on ten more pounds of muscle is not going to matter because it won't make it difference when you are consistently handing the puck over to the other team on a 2 man advantage. 

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1 minute ago, MB3 said:

You're right. I take back my post. Only a moron would say something that stupid. 

Now with close to 60 NHL games under his belt and being a nonfactor in pretty much all of them, I have recognzied his detractors were right. 

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30 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Now with close to 60 NHL games under his belt and being a nonfactor in pretty much all of them, I have recognzied his detractors were right. 

His “detractors” mostly just said he’d need some time to develop, so in that regard you’re correct. 

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Jack Hughes is having the worst season for a number 1 overall pick in 20 years and that’s with getting more of an opportunity to succeed because the team has no offensive talent to speak of that is taking opportunities away from him.   He’s fast, but he’s invisible 95 percent of the time, except when he’s turning the puck over.  If you’re gonna have as slight a frame as he’ll always have, you have to really think two steps ahead, which he has shown no ability to do when he’s not playing against other teenagers.
 

It took everyone here forever to recognize John Hynes’ incompetence, that Adam Larsson being overrated was not Pete DeBoer’s fault, and that Pavel Zacha was never going to be a good NHL player.  
 

Trade him for Jack Eichel while we can.

 

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Out of all the things to get upset about this miserable season I just can't get worked up about an 18 year old who still looks like a little kid. How many posts has he hit this season? How many fantastic passes that were wasted because his linemates couldn't do anything with them when some should have been easy goals? 

He's shown plenty of glimpses of talent. Deciding to give up on him this soon is such a ridiculous reaction that it's really not even worth discussing.

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2 hours ago, Daniel said:

Jack Hughes is having the worst season for a number 1 overall pick in 20 years and that’s with getting more of an opportunity to succeed because the team has no offensive talent to speak of that is taking opportunities away from him.   He’s fast, but he’s invisible 95 percent of the time, except when he’s turning the puck over.  If you’re gonna have as slight a frame as he’ll always have, you have to really think two steps ahead, which he has shown no ability to do when he’s not playing against other teenagers.
 

It took everyone here forever to recognize John Hynes’ incompetence, that Adam Larsson being overrated was not Pete DeBoer’s fault, and that Pavel Zacha was never going to be a good NHL player.  
 

Trade him for Jack Eichel while we can.

you are totally wrong all over the massage. JH is a youngest boy and every one talk about how he dont ready for nhl. All good rockies are 20-21 yo. He need time. He isnt invisible 95% because he is very visible. He is often make mistakes - yes. Because he try to translate his skills.
PZ is a good 3rd line center now and statistic from all nhl 3rd line players show that.

 

i dont understand what you are really do. i dont think that you are ranger fan or passive devils hater. May be you have some real life problems and try to translate the fault of them to wet lips boy who cant  answer on overpriced expectations. 

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24 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Out of all the things to get upset about this miserable season I just can't get worked up about an 18 year old who still looks like a little kid. How many posts has he hit this season? How many fantastic passes that were wasted because his linemates couldn't do anything with them when some should have been easy goals? 

He's shown plenty of glimpses of talent. Deciding to give up on him this soon is such a ridiculous reaction that it's really not even worth discussing.

One on the breakaway off the PK last game, in fact.I felt awful for him, as much as I think he'll be fine, he really needs something to go right for him right now. I suppose the team is doing well and that's all that matters, etc., but it would be good for Jack to have a good night right about now. 

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5 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Honestly, I’m not in favor of censoring anyone’s negative opinions, but there comes a point where you can tell it’s not genuine and it’s just pure trolling for the poster’s own entertainment. 

And there is, in my opinion, a distinction to be drawn between good natured ribbing like I do with Zacha, and what Daniel does. He comes across as not even being a fan of this team whatsoever. 

yeah Daniel had me swearing out loud in the last few months and that had never happened before.

I know i can be frustrating and annoying too at times with some of my opinions that aren't popular or doesn't align with others but it's always about something systematic or based on values. I don't take any pleasure at frustrating people with it. But i know i'm also bringing positive sh!t outside of that.

He's just negative to be negative and it's draining when it's already hard to keep positive about the team being frustrating.

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15 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I know i can be frustrating and annoying too at times with some of my opinions that aren't popular or doesn't align with others but it's always about something systematic or based on values.

I’ve never noticed that. ;) 

16 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

yeah Daniel had me swearing out loud in the last few months and that had never happened before.

I’m from New York, we literally do that all day long. 

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11 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I’ve never noticed that. ;) 

I’m from New York, we literally do that all day long. 

I should have specified...

i'm swearing out loud.... in french. That's when you know its serious

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12 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I should have specified...

i'm swearing out loud.... in french. That's when you know its serious

Yeah, we don't do that. But we would if we knew French. 

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Again it looks like the wagons are being circled regarding Hughes.

I am not quite as ready as Daniel to label him a bust, but I am not liking what I have been seeing.  He now has 1 point in his last 13 games and has played with much better linemates for most of that stretch.  I also went from expecting big things before the season started to tempering my expectations to 35-40 points for the season in November.  Now, it looks like he may struggle to even reach 25 points.  At this point a lot of the issues around Hughes isn't going to simply be excused away with the same excuses (He's only 18, Thornton, Stamkos, linemates, Kakko isn't scoring either, etc) and plenty of the issues he has isn't going to be solved with the addition of 10 pounds over the summer.  Hughes often looks lost, makes poor decisions, and is often a non-factor.

The huge reaction Daniel and even myself has gotten regarding a different opinion is what drives people away from forums like this rather than what Daniel is doing.  I don't get why someone having a different opinion of a player drives the board groupthink insane but it does give an impression that if you don't agree with the general consensus you get personally attacked, get called a moron, etc.

 

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3 hours ago, Daniel said:

Now with close to 60 NHL games under his belt and being a nonfactor in pretty much all of them, I have recognzied his detractors were right. 

Ever dawn on you how you end up being wrong a lot of times?

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12 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

The huge reaction Daniel and even myself has gotten regarding a different opinion is what drives people away from forums like this rather than what Daniel is doing.  I don't get why someone having a different opinion of a player drives the board groupthink insane

No no no don’t try to pull that card of ‘oh we are just trying to express a different opinion, please don’t crucify us for our well to do thoughts!’. fvck outta here with that. If someone wants to talk complete and utter sh!t then go right ahead. But don’t whine when people call it out. Saying Hughes is already a bust isn’t an opinion rooted in any logic, hockey or otherwise. It’s not groupthink that people are wise enough to recognize 1.bullsh!t and 2.someone’s hysteria.

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20 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Again it looks like the wagons are being circled regarding Hughes.

I am not quite as ready as Daniel to label him a bust, but I am not liking what I have been seeing.  He now has 1 point in his last 13 games and has played with much better linemates for most of that stretch.  I also went from expecting big things before the season started to tempering my expectations to 35-40 points for the season in November.  Now, it looks like he may struggle to even reach 25 points.  At this point a lot of the issues around Hughes isn't going to simply be excused away with the same excuses (He's only 18, Thornton, Stamkos, linemates, Kakko isn't scoring either, etc) and plenty of the issues he has isn't going to be solved with the addition of 10 pounds over the summer.  Hughes often looks lost, makes poor decisions, and is often a non-factor.

The huge reaction Daniel and even myself has gotten regarding a different opinion is what drives people away from forums like this rather than what Daniel is doing.  I don't get why someone having a different opinion of a player drives the board groupthink insane but it does give an impression that if you don't agree with the general consensus you get personally attacked, get called a moron, etc.

 

Because there is a difference between being concerned about his development and giving a justified, reasoned argument around it to just throwing out ridiculous statements like "he is not going to be a good player". 

Daniel has basically painted himself into a corner because he is so negative and reactionary over every little issue that even valid points will start to get ignored.

You can only cry "wolf, wolf" so many times before someone tells you to fvck off. 

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10 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Again it looks like the wagons are being circled regarding Hughes.

I am not quite as ready as Daniel to label him a bust, but I am not liking what I have been seeing.  He now has 1 point in his last 13 games and has played with much better linemates for most of that stretch.  I also went from expecting big things before the season started to tempering my expectations to 35-40 points for the season in November.  Now, it looks like he may struggle to even reach 25 points.  At this point a lot of the issues around Hughes isn't going to simply be excused away with the same excuses (He's only 18, Thornton, Stamkos, linemates, Kakko isn't scoring either, etc) and plenty of the issues he has isn't going to be solved with the addition of 10 pounds over the summer.  Hughes often looks lost, makes poor decisions, and is often a non-factor.

The huge reaction Daniel and even myself has gotten regarding a different opinion is what drives people away from forums like this rather than what Daniel is doing.  I don't get why someone having a different opinion of a player drives the board groupthink insane but it does give an impression that if you don't agree with the general consensus you get personally attacked, get called a moron, etc.

You're misreading the room on this one.  It's not Daniel's opinion of Hughes that people have a problem with...I do think anyone who's already got Hughes potentially heading down the road to Bustville is definitely being premature, but sure, there are fans who are concerned about what he's shown to date...Nicomo, whose opinions I respect, has admitted being disappointed in Hughes' production this season...I can understand that.  For now, I'd just like to see Hughes returned to his proper position...the wing experiment hasn't done him any good.  But I can't make that big of a deal out of this tough rookie year, which was spent playing for two coaches that I think most of us don't think highly of, playing plenty with Wood and Simmonds, occasionally getting some lousy puck luck, and then being forced to play out of position even when it's become clear to everyone but Nas that Plan Wing for Hughes is not working out at all.  I'm not saying Hughes is totally without blame here, that I want to make clear.  But I am willing to give him more than 60 games (on a very flawed team) before I really start to worry about his future.     

Daniel's problem is that he's turned into a complete troll...he's nowhere to be found when the team is doing well (see the Rangers GDT thread), and now pops his head in just to be negative/irritating/annoying/whatever.  And he's often not even correct...he bitched constantly about how the owners would never get rid of Shero, and how Shero would never get rid of Hynes...wrong and wrong.  It's sad because he used to be a pretty solid poster once upon a time, and now he's turned into a complete joke, regardless of how he feels about Hughes.  

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Jack back at center.  About fvcking time Nas.  

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4 hours ago, Daniel said:

Jack Hughes is having the worst season for a number 1 overall pick in 20 years and that’s with getting more of an opportunity to succeed because the team has no offensive talent to speak of that is taking opportunities away from him.   He’s fast, but he’s invisible 95 percent of the time, except when he’s turning the puck over.  If you’re gonna have as slight a frame as he’ll always have, you have to really think two steps ahead, which he has shown no ability to do when he’s not playing against other teenagers.
 

It took everyone here forever to recognize John Hynes’ incompetence, that Adam Larsson being overrated was not Pete DeBoer’s fault, and that Pavel Zacha was never going to be a good NHL player.  
 

Trade him for Jack Eichel while we can.

This is your classic, "Daniel has a point jumbled somewhere in his overall nonsense" series of posts. Your point that Jack Hughes hasn't been very good this season, is, obviously correct. I've already said this before, but it's a little confusing as to why you would then conclude that he's a bust. It doesn't really matter that he's a 1st overall pick. The question is simply, "do players who eventually turn into star players have unproductive early years sometimes?" Obviously the answer to that is yes.

Playing the numbers game doesn't really help you - because by that measure, Jack could absolutely still become a star still, especially given that he played this whole season at age 18 and...undersized.

So the question becomes what is your analysis of Jack's on-ice game that leads you to conclude that he won't pan out? The other day (during a game where Jack missed his teammates with numerous passes) you mentioned his bad passing and I agreed that this is the most worrying thing about his game. But I also pointed out that he makes plenty of elite passes and plays too. And his skating is just fvcking ridiculously good sometimes - it's such a weapon throughout the ice and will keep him in the NHL for a long time. So it's not like he arrived at the NHL and is all of a sudden not capable of translating his skills. It's just that you only remember/notice his most visible mistakes and successes.

Despite seeming like complete chaos to the lay observer, an NHL game is heavily structured and at high speed surrounded by the world's best players it can be hard to learn how to carry out that structure in real time. And Jack certainly gets a little lost sometimes as far as where to go and what to do goes. For example, I mentioned a few times during the course of this year that sometimes when Hughes sees opponents coming towards him he'll quickly get rid of the puck in irresponsible fashion - it's how he's learned to avoid taking hits/losing the puck straight from his stick. I'm sure the coaches are showing him video of specific instances and telling him, "Jack when that happens do _____ with the puck instead." So it's just a matter of turning that knowledge into second nature along with adding a little more size so he can protect himself and the puck a little better.  Given that he seems to be a highly motivated player, I see little reason to believe he won't put in the time and effort to figure out what he needs to do out there (Just look at the Detroit game - does that hit you as a player who is unmotivated?). And yeah, while I think anyone who says, "Jack has been great this year," is lying to themselves, I also think that it still stands to be a matter of time before Jack is lighting it up.

 

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